First Enduro bike?

[toddmeister]

Hi all,

New to the forum and looking at getting back into bikes after a long absence. I used to have a CBR600 but now looking at getting an enduro. I have absolutely zero experience of off-road bikes and riding off-road so not really sure where to start.

I'm not looking for anything too serious as I'll only be using it for "gentle" off-road and also for the odd commute on the road in the summer. I'm also looking for something that I can "fiddle" with as I'd like to learn how to maintain the bike myself, so something thats relatively simple to work on.

So I guess I'm looking for advice on the following:-

Two or Four stroke?

250 or 450cc?

What's best suited to a short @rse (I'm 5'7)

best for both on and off-road use?

What's simple to work on?

My budget will be no more than £2k so ideally a bike with plenty available secondhand, is this realistic?

If it helps give an idea of what I'm into, I love the look and sound of the bigger four-strokes like WR450, DRZ400 that kind of thing. But I've read two-strokes are much simpler to work on and may be more suited to me given my size?

Sorry for so many questions but I really don't have a clue where to start

Many Thanks
TM

[Wafer_Thin_Ham]

XR400.

Rugged, plentiful, simple, reliable. Think you can get them with an electric start too.
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My Flickr

[_Iain_]

DRZ400 with a spare set of SM wheels for when on the road

If it goes bang it'll be royal prick to fix as complex four stroke engine, however the likelyhood of it blowing up is next to nothing, and the two strokes can require a piston replacement as soon as every 7.5hrs of run time

DRZ400SM's fetch a premium too so you may even make a profit when it comes time to sell if you've got the SM wheels for it
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Please be aware that the above post may be full of complete nonsense.
Riding: '07 KTM Duke II, Baotian BT49QT-20 Driving: '88 Volvo 340

[toddmeister]

Thanks guys for the replies

keep them coming

[G]

Adding in commuting messes stuff up a bit.

I'd usually suggest a 250cc+ 2 stroke enduro bike. These are light weight and very easy to ride.

2 strokes generally have less maintenance than a similar 4 stroke (and doing a piston in one is a hell of a lot easier than faffing with 4 strokes - 7.5 hours would be 7.5 hours of mx riding I expect, which is a good few weekends worth generally.)

XR400s don't come in electric start as far as I know, they are a little lighter than a DRZ with a little less power. The DRZ-E makes a nice 'do it all' bike, but has a good chunk more weight than something like a KTM300EXC - light weight helps in a lot of situations and can make a big difference to enjoyment.

[Fladdem]

Unless you have phenomenal throttle control, I would stay well clear of an enduro 450 if I were you.

I would suggest a TTR 250, low-ish seat height, leccy start, later ones have both kicker and electric. I was entered in a Long Distance Trial on mine the other day, and no kicker meant that when I killed the battery from stalling around yet another section, I had to find a nice hill to bump it on. Which is quite difficult in flat Warwickshire with a trials tyre on wet grass. So for me a kick start is a must! Electric start should just be for comfort.

However, if you start to get serious, the TTR will start to feel like something is missing... the answer is a WR250F chassis. If I were going for it again, I would go for for the WR. Bit more maintenance, but when comparing Yamaha workshop manuals the time schedules are identical. It's just that a WR is not quite so complacent when it comes to not following the schedule on a strict basis.

However, all of the WR series are not very good on the road, I should mention, I mean the competition WR, not the R or X. THis is due to a close ratio 'box, despite it meaning Wide Ratio, it is still quite close when compared with a TTR, due to being only 5 speed and the gears just generally being closer.

I would say a DRZ400E or CCM 404. Same engine, just the CCM has a better chassis, I would guess, G would know. Sedate enough to learn on, tough enough to take abuse a bit better. A bit more oomph to avoid getting bored with, like my TTR, the engine is actually pretty great after my overbore, port and polish, uncorking, thinner head and base gasket, for higher compression, aftermarket exhaust, re-jetting, and sprocket changes but could never go back to standard now. Going to have the suspension re-valved and re-sprung for me at the end of the month and then some stainless braided brake lines to try and sort that issue out.

You see what I mean? TTR's are great for pottering on, but a money pit if you want to pretend you can compete.

TL;DR Get a DRZ, if you like it, swap it for something orange and smokey and by that I don't mean a knackered four stroke.
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Current:1991 Honda MT50 (Soon to be a H100/MTX/MT5 hybrid), 1976 Honda Cub C70, 2005 Honda Varadero 125, 1993 Yamaha TTR250 Open Enduro , 2010 Road Legal Stomp YX140, 1994 Honda CRM 250 MK III, 1999 Cagiva Mito 125, 1992 Honda CB400 Super Four, Stomp T4 230, 1984 Honda H100s, 2009 Sym XS125K
Past:2003 Aprilia RS125, 1982 Kawasaki GPZ550(FREE BIKE!)
I'm having more fun than a well-oiled midget.

[G]

I've never found a problem with the big 4 stroke competition bikes as far as controllable goes - sure, if you're trying to ride them at 95%, they're a bit of a handful, but never found a problem riding them at 50% - usually reasonably sedate.
The KTM200 is the only modern enduro bike that I've had an issue with in that regards - but also why I love it. The old pre-powervalve 350 I used to have had a similar delivery, albeit with a good bit more hit.

250cc 4 strokes worry me - lots of fast light weight spinning bits. Definitely take a 2 stroke over one - less weight, more power and less maintenance.

[Fladdem]

When I ride a 450, I always get a thing Americans call whiskey throttle, where the power comes on fast, chucking you back, cracking the throttle open more, throwing you back further, winding the power on more, until it all gets out of hand too fast and you get spat off onto/into/through something and just thrown off the back if you are lucky.

It's even possible on a 250F. Although this one did have an engine built by cosworth with so many tuning goodlies, that those alone were worth more than any two of my bikes combined, possibly three of them.

My most recent injury from August 22nd.
https://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag134/Fladdem/DSC_00131_zps895c0fd1.jpg

This was caused by whiskey throttle right before a berm, launching me up over the berm and into a pallet. Still, my knees hurt, and I have a lump where that graze was, it was bruised and saw for a bout a fortnight.
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Current:1991 Honda MT50 (Soon to be a H100/MTX/MT5 hybrid), 1976 Honda Cub C70, 2005 Honda Varadero 125, 1993 Yamaha TTR250 Open Enduro , 2010 Road Legal Stomp YX140, 1994 Honda CRM 250 MK III, 1999 Cagiva Mito 125, 1992 Honda CB400 Super Four, Stomp T4 230, 1984 Honda H100s, 2009 Sym XS125K
Past:2003 Aprilia RS125, 1982 Kawasaki GPZ550(FREE BIKE!)
I'm having more fun than a well-oiled midget.

[G]

This wasn't a motocross 450 was it?

Had that on a 200 a few times, but never on other enduro bikes - on a 450 I'd probably just be in a gear higher if I wanted it calmer - something you can't really do on the 200, because it'll drop you down to not much power at all. While most enduro bikes tend to have a more linear power delivery, meaning down a gear gives you the same but a bit less.

[_Iain_]

[Dischord]

Whiskey throttle? sorry what a load of bullshit!

That's just a term to sugar coat inexperience.
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2012 KTM EXC 250

Check out my vids - https://www.youtube.com/user/KTMSparky/videos

[Fladdem]

[victorvannieu...]

Hi i wonder if anyone can help me with a research i'm doing. I'm trying to find the history of the Honda XR250R but i cannot seem to find much .. does anyone has some ideas?
Grz
vic

[thx1138]

[stevo as b4]

I've never heard of Whiskey throttle.
but I've had the same result where by the bike goes into a demented loop the loop frenzy and spits you off one way while it goes the other.

Mine was caused by landing a jump on a WR200R on the front wheel, and the fork rebound throwing me back, and causing me to grab a handful of throttle at the same time. It's probably what makes me very wary of something like the KTM300EXC (the boring flat 2stroke that can't hurt you!)

I think next time off road I'll stick to a Serrow or XLR125, unless i ever get the KMX200 working again.

[MaybeGuy]

I've tried pretty much every variety and settled for a 250 4 stroke.
It was basically a fettled CRF250X with R cam.

My maintenance and running costs were less than that of an equivalent 2 stroke, probably put about 5000 miles on it.

In that time, valve clearances were done once, and checked every 2nd oil change, and oil every 500 miles or so.
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Blue_SV650S wrote: it was a sh1te wheelie, but it proves that he can get it up in 3rd and can do angles. In summery, mattsprattuk is a gobby little sh1tebag, dopehead tw4t, but sadly for all of us, he probably isn't THAT full of sh1te!!
Kickstart wrote: Hi I tend to agree with Matt. All the best Keith

[Fladdem]

I'd never heard of whiskey throttle either, until the blokes I was riding with at Daventry track said about it. I think it's an Americanism.

My CRM is great, it's not as easy to ride as my TTR, but you can still ride it a gear high if you want to. It's much quicker than my TTR as well. 50 mph in second if you're cruel. The CRM doesn't have the torque like my TTR to just pick the front wheel up over puddles or ditches, despite being torquey for a two stroke, it is still a two stroke and I can't ride it so aggressively yet, I can't operate the engine. I don't like the CRF 250, it just felt too aggressive for me, two strokes always feel nicer to ride, every-time I'm on one.

The pre-varadero XL125's are great offroaders.
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Current:1991 Honda MT50 (Soon to be a H100/MTX/MT5 hybrid), 1976 Honda Cub C70, 2005 Honda Varadero 125, 1993 Yamaha TTR250 Open Enduro , 2010 Road Legal Stomp YX140, 1994 Honda CRM 250 MK III, 1999 Cagiva Mito 125, 1992 Honda CB400 Super Four, Stomp T4 230, 1984 Honda H100s, 2009 Sym XS125K
Past:2003 Aprilia RS125, 1982 Kawasaki GPZ550(FREE BIKE!)
I'm having more fun than a well-oiled midget.