Day to day running costs of a 125 vs a 'sensible' 600.

[alex965]

Hello everyone, not so much of a "new" biker, but after 5 years on 125's I'm finally taking the plunge and ditching my L plates in the next month or so.

Now, being an impoverished student I've always liked 125's because they are so cheap to run. Especially in terms of fuel economy. And I'm torn between sticking with 125's post test, or getting an old 600 (bandit, diversion, fazer, hornet, etc.) I'm just wondering how the more budget conscious of this forum find running a "big boys bike" compared to a tiddler?

After looking around for insurance quotes I was surprised to find that with an A2 licence, a 'sensible' 600 would actually be cheaper to insure than my current GZ125 on a cbt.

My budget for a new bike would be somewhere between £1000-£1500 and for that I know I can either get an older big bike or look at getting a brand new Sinnis Café 125 (yes I know they are Chinese and I would want to do much more research into their build quality and reliability before I put any money on one).

I've rambled on enough, but the main question is, in terms of day to day running, consumables, tyres, chains, servicing, fuel, oil etc. How much of a difference is a 600 really going to make? Did anyone notice a really big jump in running costs when they moved up to a big bike? For reference, I use my current 125 to do the 2 mile journey into uni, the 18 mile round trip to work and sometimes I will go full retard and do 300 mile + journeys on it for fun or to travel back home. The last one of those uses is the main reason I'm thinking twice about staying on 125's, I'd like to be able to do long journeys and not be revving the tits off my little bike at 65mph for hours on end.

Cheers all.
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Passed A2 licence 19th Dec '14.

[TheArchitect]

When I shifted from my 125 (scooter) to a 250 the main financial hit was the increase in insurance and the fuel economy.

Insurance is subjective I guess and differs with everyone, mine went up from £140 to £380 with 2 NCB and commuting added. Obviously it's a cost that should go down year by year but the more nickable your bike, the higher it'll be.

Fuel economy obviously drops the bigger the engine but it wasn't as drastic as I thought. I was spending around £20 a month for my commutes to work, I'm now spending around £35 a month. Not massive, but if you're counting the pennies it can add up.

In terms of consumables and maintenance I think if you find yourself a bike in decent condition it should just be the usual service/mot costs that are definite costs. Tyres is down to your usage so will vary, but I wouldn't factor that into an annual running.

The rest like chain care and rust proofing is cheap to do yourself.
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GSXR 600 K6 - Stolen
GSXR 600 K6 - Stolen
MT09 - Almost stolen

[bikertomm]

Good question.

I went from my XR125 to a Hornet 600.

Personally, my insurance went from £350ish on the XR125

To around £390 for my first year on a 600 with full licence. (Now around £300 after another year)

In terms of running costs:

Fuel economy - It will cost you (roughly) just over twice what it would cost you on your 125. Say your 125 does 90-100MPG, most 600's will do 30-50 I would imagine depending on how you ride them.

My hornet costs around £17 for 125/130 miles.
Pretty sure the XR did £6/7 would get 110 miles.

Tyres - Bigger bikes take big boy tyres. A decent set of rubber will be £200 - and that's just the tyres. Getting them fitted is extra.

Chains I'd say not worth worrying about. So long as you don't buy a lemon and take care of the chain, (cleaning and lubing up) you'll likely be fine.

Servicing, again, on an older bike worth £1000-£1500, are you spanner handy? Even I can change the oil on my bike. Will cost you about £35 to do yourself for decent oil & filter.

The decision is yours, but I'd say get a second hand jap something (Thundercat?) or older hornet. Definately wouldn't be buying a brand new Sinnis.

Was it worth it in my circumstance?

Fuck yes. Purely use it for pleasure and the odd commute & I love it.

Do it
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07' Honda Hornet now full powaah! My guide on performing an oil change!

[Wednesday Biker]

Chains tend to be better quality and last longer than the cheapo 125 chains, so although they cost more they last longer.
Tyres are more expensive but if you find a good place like me you can get a tyre for about £20 more fitted than if you went to a main dealer and had a 125 tyre fitted.
Fuel is approx double.
It is more expensive but if you don't do stupid miles and need tyres every 6 months its not too bad.
If you get a bullet proof bike like a bandit you can just put fuel in and ride it...Probably

[wr6133]

If you are looking to minimise running costs a 250 is a good compromise. 70-ish MPG and just enough grunt for motorways. My old 250 took me all over the place and it's the only bike I regret selling, cost peanuts to run and had just enough grunt to do what was needed.

Fuel and maintenance on a 600 is going to be anywhere between 2-3 times that of your 125. Also VED (tax) is a fair bit more each year. More fun but if running cost is your priority then not the best move as you will be cutting down on your leisure miles to keep costs down.

[alex965]

Thanks for the responses. I hadn't thought about 250's before tbh. Could anyone recommend what 250's would be good to look out for on a budget of £1000-£1500? 125's are a bit frustrating really, if my gz125 just had another 10mph top speed and was capable of cruising at 65-70mph without screaming its head off it would be perfect and I wouldn't even be thinking about getting a bigger engined bike.

Cheers.
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Passed A2 licence 19th Dec '14.

[wr6133]

[Baffler186]

I went from a CBF125 to a FZ6. Insurance was only £40 more. Servicing cost about £60 more but service interval is longer. MPG lingers around the 47mpg point, but as I enjoy riding the bigger bike I also do far more miles than I used to (for fun).

Agree with what's been said before, if you can find a 250 that you like then go for it, however I've not seen a great deal apart from the older ones (Superdream for example), or NInjas. There are a few CBF250's knocking around but not sure I'd go there. Similarly the Inazuma is a commuter 250 but not heard how good or bad they are. Only others I've seen are trail/MX bikes.
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Current: 2009 SV650 S, 1990 Kawasaki GT550
Previous: 2009 CBF125, 1998 GSF600, 2004 FZ6 Fazer, 1978 CB400a Hondamatic

[Ribenapigeon]

Apart from about 10mpg less efficient I've not noticed much difference going from my WR125X to my XJ6. In fact my insurance is £50 cheaper.

[TheArchitect]

[alex965]

[Baffler186]

[wr6133]

Your GZ125 official figure is 85 MPG. When doing your maths I wouldn't go estimating a bandit at 60 MPG I think you'd be very lucky to see that figure once in a blue moon, I think the bandits book figure is something like 45 MPG if so bank on 50-ish if you really do ride like a granny. A 250 I'd be expecting the figure to be around 70 MPG (I used to see up to mid 70's on mine but it was fairly underpowered).

[Rogerborg]

My GPz305 was frugal and quite fun, although I'll be the first to point out that I got lucky with it. I mention it mostly to say that you'll have to go in with your eyes open and not try to explore the top end on one too often.
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike

[alex965]

Thanks for the info guys.

One more thing, to change the subject slightly, Rogerborg and Baffler, I can see you've both got Chinese 125s in your bikes owned info. Any thoughts on the Chinese Sinnis 125s? Namely, the café 125 which is essentially just a re styled trackstar 125. If I stick with 125s I am very tempted to look into getting one. Main reason being they are stunning (to me anyway) and the majority of people I've spoken to about sinnis bikes seem to think they are a cut above the random nameless ones. MCN seem to like both the trackstar and the café, but their road reviews are hardly a test of reliability. And without knowing if sinnis bikes are any good or not I would be wary of hopping on one and doing a 300 mile stint like I know I can do with my (aging) gz125.
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Passed A2 licence 19th Dec '14.

[trevor saxe-coburg-gotha]

Trackstar's pretty much the same engine as the GZ. As you'll know, they very basic air cooled one pot SOHC jobs. Not much to go wrong there providing oil gets done every thou / 1500 or so. Might conceivably a thinner finish on the Sinnis - but then, little modern suzukis aren't exactly renowned for their thickness of paint and lacquer. I'm not much a gambling man, but I'd say if you want a trackstar, go for it. It will probably be fairly-to-very reliable, if properly maintained. By which I mean carefully and habitually.
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"Life is a sexually transmitted disease and the mortality rate is one hundred percent."

Mobylette Type 50 ---> Raleigh Grifter ---> Neval Minsk 125

[Wednesday Biker]

I've heard they are ok really but I probably heard from the same sources you did
Have you considered a Kymco Zing II? Nice looking bike.
I've heard Kymco aren't too bad either as far as the cheap bikes go.
Rode a kymco on holiday and they seem ok and they seem to stand up to the hammer the tourists give them.
They say Chinese and Korean bikes rust but so do Yamaha and Honda 125s these days.

[alex965]

[alex965]

[stevo as b4]

You could run say a CB500 Honda for not that much more than a CBF125 or similar. Non sports bikes don't have really expensive tyres, brakes, chains etc, and a 500 twin will manage 75mpg going gently, but still faster than flat out on a CBF.

[Rogerborg]

Sinnis Trackstar long term ownership review.

Sinnis Apache review (tl;dw - better than a Pulse Adrenaline).

I had a good look at the Apache 125 with a view to perhaps taking a mad gamble on the 250. In showroom fettle, I couldn't find anything wrong with it. Good welds, well put together, lots of stainless. It looked and felt like a decent bike.

However, that dealer isn't stocking the Trackstar (specifically) any more because they had a bunch come back with warranty issues. This was as part of a friendly chat about how things were going, not a sales pitch.

Sinnis are certainly trying to build a UK brand. As a bike, I reckon I'd trust one more than a CBF125 or even a "Yamaha" YBR 125.

As an ownership proposition though I'd expect to get dry-pumped on resale as it's unlikely to be worth much more than a Lexmoto. That applies particularly to the Trackstar / Retrostar / Cafe, which are beautiful little bikes but I can't see why they cost more than the SC125 or for that matter a Lexmoto Vixen.

I mention this because the Pulse Adrenaline and Sinnis Apache have both £400 cut from their price in the last year. As I doubt the wholesale price had dropped by that much, I'm guessing that was pure profit margin.
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike

[alex965]

[wr6133]

I've owned Jinluns (125-11 and 250-5) I wouldn't complain about either they took me all over the UK and cost peanuts to run. I bought them for a few hundred quid each though, no way would I buy a Chinese bike brand new not only depreciation but most of the faults show up early so one with a few miles has likely been sorted.

Changing a GZ125 for a new Chinese 125? I honestly think you are mad, it's not going to be faster in any way worth measuring (if at all), probably won't be as reliable and will depreciate a lot so unless you plan to keep it a long long time you'll lose a chunk of money.

I also agree with roger about those trackstars and the like being overpriced, they are as basic as basic can be, wholesale they must cost pennies on the pound compared to the retail price. As nice as they look I'd feel cheated at the price.

[mentalboy]

[stevo as b4]

Nice to hear that there's two ex GPZ305 owners who had a happy fun time with the little 36bhp tearaway!

Most of what's written about them likens them to near hand grenade levels of reliability, especially when thrashed hard! I guess only RGV250 owners would see them as a reliable solid prospect in that case!