I'm doing it again....

[Fladdem]

Pipe dreaming I suppose,

I'm after a smoker, nearly got my hands on a '99 KTM 300 but let it slip away... I want a nice, torquey, cheap bike to do enduro-ing, motocrossing, pratting in a field, GENTLE green laning. I want it to be able to positively rip as well as plod about like my TTR does so well but without spitting me off due to my inexperience and nerves.

I want something lighter than my TTR, better suspended, more poke but still just as linear, prefer two stroke because they're easier to maintain than the equivalent four stroke and the ring-tin-ting and smoke

I'm thinking of a Gas Gas EC 200, should have a top end hit, without being too fast and being based on a trials engine, should be a bit more grunty at the bottom end as well and usually see them go quite cheap.

I then got thinking, sometimes YZ 250's are cheap, would it be worthwhile getting my hands on a bit of a wrecker and adding flywheel weights, pipes and generally tame it down and smooth it out or just get a ready-built European bike?

I like 250F's, in particular the WR. But for my £1500, the only ones that are available I wouldn't want to touch without having something left-over there for an engine rebuild.

Thanks,

PS, anyone got a cheap two stroke enduro bike, road legal preferably, not too far away from Warwick, about 50 miles, that suits my plans, do give us a shout.
____________________
Current:1991 Honda MT50 (Soon to be a H100/MTX/MT5 hybrid), 1976 Honda Cub C70, 2005 Honda Varadero 125, 1993 Yamaha TTR250 Open Enduro , 2010 Road Legal Stomp YX140, 1994 Honda CRM 250 MK III, 1999 Cagiva Mito 125, 1992 Honda CB400 Super Four, Stomp T4 230, 1984 Honda H100s, 2009 Sym XS125K
Past:2003 Aprilia RS125, 1982 Kawasaki GPZ550(FREE BIKE!)
I'm having more fun than a well-oiled midget.

[G]

I'd stick to keeping an eye out for another 300 personally.
I haven't ridden the EC200, but the KTM 200 doesn't do slow amazingly well. The 350 I had, which had a similar delivery was ok because it had a fair bit of power below the power band and silly amounts when you hit it. The 200 isn't quite as frantic in the power band, but that means it's a bit lack lustre out of it.

Err... reading your post, didn't know the EC was based on a trials engine.

Going for a 2 stroke motocross bike to convert to 'sedate' enduro works seems far too much hassle - if it was something like 'enduro cross', a lot less work would be needed.

There's a pampera on enduro news up at £850. Very trials engine, light weight, but low. Also a 2005 300EC for £1450 - if you don't have a reason to go for KTM (I have KTM bits already), be tempted by that.
So... stop reading this post and go buy it!

[stevo as b4]

I think your overthinking it all a bit TBH! You've also said it must be this this and this, and your trying to find justification for buying an unsuitable bike that you think will end up exactly how you want it to be with some add on parts and guess work.

The YZ250 idea is silly for all your requirements IMO. (gentle green laning ) And spending even more on engine parts/pipes setting up won't suddenly make it a lovely smooth pootle friendly motor that sips the fuel either. It would be like me saying I've seen a YZ250 for sale and shall I buy it and convert it to be competitive in club trials?

Will you be selling the TTR, as I know you don't do selling bikes? If not then why does it have to be a linear smooth do everything like the TTR but with more power and snap, and with two stroke maintenance schedules?

A 200cc Enduro bike will do geen laning, play riding, and limited road riding if it was geared to suit that is. I've not ridden anything more competition orientated than a Yamaha WR200R or a WR250F. But I can't imagine a 300cc 2stroke KTM being some sort of magic soft and friendly best of all worlds bike. I think G being experienced off road with various machinery overplays all this 300 2T= very flat boring 4stroke plodder theory!

In much the same way as the ideal lazy novice friendly city centre commuter being 1000cc and 160bhp with lowered gearing!

In my limited experience of off roading on modern bike's I did think the Yamaha WR250F was a very impressive excellent trail/Enduro bike that's got acres of ability, way more than I have anyway, and it does flatter a less experienced rider who is trying to learn and improve without having the worry of a machine that will bite back and leave them on their arse in a split second of mis-concentration which is how I'd see the KTM300EXC for example.

[G]

- my 143hp ZX9R was downgeared, but the GSXR was stock gearing - the 100mph in first was one of the positives because you could just leave it in first and not bother changing gears if you wanted - at road legal speeds it didn't feel too stressed/twitchy at any speed, while still have a 'prmopt' throttle response.

Anyway; really, get a ride on a stock 250cc or over 2 stroke enduro bike from the 90s or later.
While you're at it, get a ride on a KTM200.
As an idea; at the BCF BBQ riding my KTM200 and Iain's CR125 back to back, the KTM makes the CR125 feel pretty smooth with a linear delivery in comparison. The KTM 200 doesn't make a great trail bike, but is great fun when trying to rag it all the time.
I first rode a proper enduro 2 stroke swapping a RMX with a friend while I was on a DR600. I had also been riding a XR250 a bit at the time. I was expecting a fire breathing monster. I found myself running out of revs because it just wasn't obvious where you needed to change up because it's so flat.
A KTM300 has a good lot more low down go than a WR250F, more linear deivery and should have softer suspension too, thanks to weighing less.
Yes, no doubt if you keep them 'on song' they are a bit of animal, but as opposed to the 'all or nothing' delivery some have, there's no problem if you don't.

[Fladdem]

[G]

The pampera is definitely based on a trials engine, but a different bike for a different purpose.
Usually the 200 is a big bore 125.

A CRM250 is a nice enough dirt bike, but I don't see why to go for a heavier bike if you don't need the road-ability.

While in most things going for a lower state of tune makes riding less hassle, for dirt bikes it generally means heavier, which means harder work.

Not many 2 stroke Japanese enduro bikes, certainly not modern ones. 4 stroke enduro bikes tend to be expensive when stuff goes wrong.

For the KTMs, there's often not a massive amount between a peaky motocross tool and a comy enduro engine - different powervalve settings, fly wheel weight and pipe etc.

(Though, I've never quite understood the 'different power valve springs' thing - surely the ideal and raison d'être of a powervalve is to provide the most power right at every point - so I can't see why you'd be adjusting it unless you specifically wanted less power at one point.)

[stevo as b4]

I'd be surprised if the KTM250SX and EXC engines have the same cylinder barrel and head though. The powervalve is supposed to give the most midrange and top end power via exhaust tuning, but it's still a big compromise. An enduro bike with a PV engine would probably still be tuned for a fat midrange over a wide rev range, the PV would be there to extend the midrange downwards towards low end power.

It would be very different on an MX or race bike engine, where everything from the transfer port timing, ignition mapping, carb size, and pipe dimensions suit top end power. The powervalve in this case is just to get a touch more midrange, but everything else is optimised for muchos top end!

Adam, I think a tidy CRM250 is a hell of a bike, and the pinnacle of 2stroke Japanese road friendly enduro bikes. Yes it's going to be heavier than a more focused KTM/Gas Gas etc, but you can remove the extra weight and road friendly gear, like carriers, pillion pegs, instruments, indicators, tool box etc if you like?

And going the other way to tune the motor for more pep with a bigger carb and racy pipe etc is IMO a lot easier than trying to make a YZ250 nice and friendly.

[G]

I checked and you're right re different part numbers.

However, I've seen plenty of stories of people not swapping many parts to 'go between' models.
My 144XC was actually converted from a SX as a case in point.

Note that a 'race' enduro bike tends to be pretty much what you get - that is their slogan, after all.

If you take all the 'road' stuff off a CRM, you might be getting towards EXC weight levels - but why not just get an EXC in the first place?

Plenty of people DO ride converted motocross bikes in enduros, but I don't know what the engine character is like - I haven't ridden a stock one either, something I really must rectify at some point!

[stevo as b4]

That's a more than fair point, and I'm not sure unless it was a tatty mk1-2 CRM that I'd want to start ripping bits off it and ruining the all round excellence of these machines.

But as you say in theory you could lose a bit of weight from one, get a bit more go from the motor, and you'd have something fairly reasonable for Enduro use and still have green lane manners and be quite useable on tarmac too.

Would you say it's easier or better if you want to a bit of road work, to make a bike like the CRM less well equipped, than it is to try and get a non road registered enduro or MX bike road legal with an MOT?

[Fladdem]

Looking, there's only about 5 kilos difference between the weight of my TTR and a CRM. I could put up with a bit more weight and if I did take anything off, it would go in a box along with anything I may change.

I think, I could use the CRM as a stepping stone on the way to race machine I don't want to jump too much in one go, and a few road manners is handy, I don't have a way of transporting my bikes to somewhere other than riding them there.

See? My brain goes in circles, one day I want a race machine the next, I don't.

If I didn't get on with the next bike immediately, I would probably try to sell it as soon as possible before I started to ruin its resale value which is why I would keep my TTR for a while, so I could go back to it.

Thanks for that, I'm about 80% set on a CRM, I keep going back to them and seriously thinking about them the most. I think the bike I want just doesn't exist. Best to have more than one then.
____________________
Current:1991 Honda MT50 (Soon to be a H100/MTX/MT5 hybrid), 1976 Honda Cub C70, 2005 Honda Varadero 125, 1993 Yamaha TTR250 Open Enduro , 2010 Road Legal Stomp YX140, 1994 Honda CRM 250 MK III, 1999 Cagiva Mito 125, 1992 Honda CB400 Super Four, Stomp T4 230, 1984 Honda H100s, 2009 Sym XS125K
Past:2003 Aprilia RS125, 1982 Kawasaki GPZ550(FREE BIKE!)
I'm having more fun than a well-oiled midget.

[J D]

You want one of these



https://i843.photobucket.com/albums/zz356/jdloyalroyal/Mobile%20Uploads/Snapchat-6596269713062029755_zps76a0e5cf.jpg




https://i843.photobucket.com/albums/zz356/jdloyalroyal/Mobile%20Uploads/Snapchat--2802929572354034586_zps7be7fd45.jpg
____________________
m0l0t0v wrote: Chris, just so you know, JD is a nutter

[Fladdem]

Look what I just got my hands on!

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1994-HONDA-CRM250-Enduro-/271667457749
____________________
Current:1991 Honda MT50 (Soon to be a H100/MTX/MT5 hybrid), 1976 Honda Cub C70, 2005 Honda Varadero 125, 1993 Yamaha TTR250 Open Enduro , 2010 Road Legal Stomp YX140, 1994 Honda CRM 250 MK III, 1999 Cagiva Mito 125, 1992 Honda CB400 Super Four, Stomp T4 230, 1984 Honda H100s, 2009 Sym XS125K
Past:2003 Aprilia RS125, 1982 Kawasaki GPZ550(FREE BIKE!)
I'm having more fun than a well-oiled midget.

[dangerousdave]

[stevo as b4]

Echo that!

Nice bike you've snared there Adam.
A lot better for what you want than any of your other considered choices too!

CRM's are like Blades and RF900's in that they have a cult following and are well sought after. I think there's a lot of firms out there doing parts, upgrades and spares for them as well.

[Fladdem]

Thanks you two!

I'm so excited about it. I love getting new bikes!

Just be a bit unnerving the first time I shut the throttle and continue coasting down the road! Parts may be easier, or at least the same as for my TTR to get my hands on. The WR 200 I was also thinking about would probably be nigh on impossible.

Steve, if I'm ever out your way and you're interested you could have a play if you wanted? I want to see this demonic KMX I hope you've got in your shed/garage/living room. Never seen one in person, the DT's and MTX's are very popular around here, must be something to do with not many Kwak dealers in the area...

I nearly bought a CRM before my TTR anyway but my brain told me that the 38-40HP or so that it puts out would lead to a licence loss when a policeman that knows his stuff(!) spotted it while I was on a 33bhp licence, little realising that my 25-ish 250 doesn't even weigh enough for that !
____________________
Current:1991 Honda MT50 (Soon to be a H100/MTX/MT5 hybrid), 1976 Honda Cub C70, 2005 Honda Varadero 125, 1993 Yamaha TTR250 Open Enduro , 2010 Road Legal Stomp YX140, 1994 Honda CRM 250 MK III, 1999 Cagiva Mito 125, 1992 Honda CB400 Super Four, Stomp T4 230, 1984 Honda H100s, 2009 Sym XS125K
Past:2003 Aprilia RS125, 1982 Kawasaki GPZ550(FREE BIKE!)
I'm having more fun than a well-oiled midget.

[stevo as b4]

Ha ha, goodbye engine braking after the TTR!

Dude, I'm sure I'll find myself on the explosive KMX over your way one day once the sun is shining again. I wouldn't mind a little potter round on a King of the 2stroke trail/friendly enduro machines, and your welcome to ride my little overgrown moped with the loud spannie soundtrack!

Make sure you get some pics up of the CRM soon, it looks pretty smart, and will be a blast and I'm told on std gearing they are a 100mph bike too!

[G]

I'm a little sceptical about 100mph - it is just about possible, but is likely over-geared if it is.

My CRM125 was actually geared for 100mph when I got it, which was pretty silly as that's the same as the considerably more aerodynamic NSR125 where it's engine originated from. Ended up with a +10 rear sprocket.

The lack of engine braking does take a little getting used to - I've wondered before about having a hand rear brake that can be locked on at your chosen setting. Of course engine braking works nicely in that the slower you get, the less braking you get relatively. Could get really fancy and make a little box of electric tricks to set speed with an electronically controlled rear brake... but it's really not THAT much hassle - at least a light weight smoker will go over bumpy stuff faster anyway!

[trevor saxe-coburg-gotha]

[Fladdem]

I picked her up Monday at about nine'oclock, didn't get back to Leamington Spa until about half ten, and she's a minter, almost a shame for me to trash her off-road

The bike has all the paperwork from 1999 when it was first imported. Had a quick test ride around the area, but was set on it without one anyway, seemed very tractable, no noticeable step in power, well a tiny one, where she wheelied off-throttle in second. If I'm honest it's exactly what I was hoping that EXC 300 would be like, very grunty for a smoker, touch less than my TTR at the bottom but with a hit and it's SO light! So far, it feels exactly what I wanted.

It's not at my house at the moment, no space, but will be bringing it back from my mates at the weekend. She fired second kick from stone cold, the dash on the CRV we borrowed from work said -2 outside!

It's a mark three and the guy who had it before the bloke I bought it from restored it, has pictures of all work done, and receipts for everything, did something like 200 miles last year between MOT's, he definitely lived in the right area for that bike, way out in the sticks! And google earth shows what appears to be a motocross track just a couple of miles away.

Just got insurance sorted, for my GPZ, TTR and CRM, comes in at about 280. I'm paying more than that for just the TTR on it's own! Should have got a multibike policy ages ago!
____________________
Current:1991 Honda MT50 (Soon to be a H100/MTX/MT5 hybrid), 1976 Honda Cub C70, 2005 Honda Varadero 125, 1993 Yamaha TTR250 Open Enduro , 2010 Road Legal Stomp YX140, 1994 Honda CRM 250 MK III, 1999 Cagiva Mito 125, 1992 Honda CB400 Super Four, Stomp T4 230, 1984 Honda H100s, 2009 Sym XS125K
Past:2003 Aprilia RS125, 1982 Kawasaki GPZ550(FREE BIKE!)
I'm having more fun than a well-oiled midget.

[Fladdem]

That CRM is so good! I should have bought one ages ago.

It's a 100MPH bike! I cracked the ton today down the motorway, absolutely terrifying on knobblies. The clock was reading about 165! It feels over-geared unless you thrash it to death in fifth before getting on it again in sixth, it doesn't seem to have the power to start accelerating in top, but does mean that it holds a steady 65 comfortably. After three fill-ups I'm averaging about 40MPG, my TTR is about 55MPG, so not too bad of a hit.

Took her green laning after my thrash down the motorway and couldn't do it for long, the ground was frozen and my feet got cold and wet. Call me a wimp if you want...

The suspension has been set-up properly by the guy who had it before the guy I bought it off, I was going through the paperwork and there's a receipt in there for suspension set-up at about £350 Either the guy was really heavy or really fast! Or in the middle of both spectrums, but the suspension seems way too harsh for me, I'm going to have to see if it's adjustable. I started to get arm pump after about 10 minutes.

The headlight is better at night than my TTRs and it has better ground clearance, and the ergonomics feel very similar, although the Honda has the edge towards a slightly more racy position. The clutch seems heavy, although lubricating the cable helped, actually using it might improve it though.

It tricked me when I first rode it, it feels like there's two step-ups in power, first time out on it, going along, revving higher, slight kick, "Whoa, this feels alright" and I thought, it's not much but it's meant to be a sedate trailie, then it has a tiny hiccup, so I assumed it was near the rev limiter, went to change up a gear and somehow missed the gear so let off the throttle and then whacked it open again while still in the same gear and it really came to life! I went off wheel-spinning down the road until I got into forth! Hard knobblies on slightly damp, cold road helped with that. Being used to my four stroke I struggle to tell what my revs are like on the new smoker, but it's great!

I stacked it today as well, hit some ice mid turn and the front wheel slipped away from me, ripped my new gloves. I may invest in some rad guards, I appear to have crumpled the left side slightly, it looks like I got away without a leak though. The brakes seem a bit spongy and the front brake lever is bent outwards so will invest in new levers. After that some wider foot-pegs, as my feet kept slipping off the pegs today, so may take a file to the cleats for now.

I meant to get some pictures of it today, but I was too busy riding and now it's too dark to get any.
____________________
Current:1991 Honda MT50 (Soon to be a H100/MTX/MT5 hybrid), 1976 Honda Cub C70, 2005 Honda Varadero 125, 1993 Yamaha TTR250 Open Enduro , 2010 Road Legal Stomp YX140, 1994 Honda CRM 250 MK III, 1999 Cagiva Mito 125, 1992 Honda CB400 Super Four, Stomp T4 230, 1984 Honda H100s, 2009 Sym XS125K
Past:2003 Aprilia RS125, 1982 Kawasaki GPZ550(FREE BIKE!)
I'm having more fun than a well-oiled midget.

[stevo as b4]

Lack of pics so far is making me limp!

I'm glad your enjoying it loads though, just as I expected you would. It must feel really quite different from the TTR and having a torquey but still exciting 40bhp motor with plenty of poke I thought would not disappoint either.

The CRM is a great all rounder, and the best 2stroke traile I think that was conceived. It's also got lots of potential and parts available in the aftermarket to make it more suited for serious off roading, or more suitable as a fun city Commuter/TDR250 style urban hooligan bike.

I've not experienced more fun on a road legal 2wheeler than I have on 2stroke trail bike's I don't think for cheap and simple fun there's anything else that can rival them either!

[Fladdem]

Right, you! Pics it is...

Not very good because I'm potato.

https://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag134/Fladdem/PC070215_zpscc5af821.jpg
From my spill.
https://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag134/Fladdem/PC070214_zpsd5a7fa5f.jpg

https://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag134/Fladdem/PC070213_zps05e879d0.jpg

https://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag134/Fladdem/PC070212_zps63aff943.jpg

And a crappy video, or two,

TTR:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxPtEOa2otU&feature=youtu.be

CRM:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awf4hOYCyaQ&feature=youtu.be

I think me smoker sounds nicer.

I'm a massive fan of the TDR series. Would quite like to get a 250 at some point for dry road work, I would hate to wreck one off-road. I don't think I know how to ride my new bike yet, it seems to accelerate slower than my TTR, yet somehow doesn't... I can't tell if I'm being cruel or not though because the sound of the two stroke isn't what I'm used to so I may not even be revving her enough, went to overtake a car and it took a while for it to wind itself up to get past earlier, perhaps dropping another gear may have helped, I'm not sure.
____________________
Current:1991 Honda MT50 (Soon to be a H100/MTX/MT5 hybrid), 1976 Honda Cub C70, 2005 Honda Varadero 125, 1993 Yamaha TTR250 Open Enduro , 2010 Road Legal Stomp YX140, 1994 Honda CRM 250 MK III, 1999 Cagiva Mito 125, 1992 Honda CB400 Super Four, Stomp T4 230, 1984 Honda H100s, 2009 Sym XS125K
Past:2003 Aprilia RS125, 1982 Kawasaki GPZ550(FREE BIKE!)
I'm having more fun than a well-oiled midget.

[dangerousdave]

[Offroadtards]

Hello people I'm new here and I got a new group on Facebook called offroad tards I would appreciate it if some of you looked at it and liked my page
____________________
Rwatts

[Offroadtards]

Hello people I'm new here and I got a new group on Facebook called offroad tards I would appreciate it if some of you looked at it and liked my page
____________________
Rwatts