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DVLA Problems (=<25kW code removal)

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Jamie S
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Joined: 28 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: 15:04 - 09 Dec 2014    Post subject: DVLA Problems (=<25kW code removal) Reply with quote
I recently passed my category C HGV test so I handed my licence over to the examiner to have the category C added, that should be simple enough for the DVLA minions , right ? well clearly not as the DVLA have taken it upon them selves to remove my "=<25kW code" from my category A bike licence which was gained in April 2010, and changed my "From/" date on my new photo card to April 2012, effectively loosing two years experience from my licence.
Has any one else had this problem ?
Thanks Jamie.
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P.
Red Rocket



Joined: 14 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: 15:10 - 09 Dec 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
Yes.

Gutted, this is why you don't surrender it, you "lose it" and get a replacement.
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WD Forte
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Joined: 17 Jun 2010
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PostPosted: 15:25 - 09 Dec 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
Yep, heard similar horror stories where certain entitlements get
washed off during a license change or renewal
When I had to update my photo license it was a relief to see they hadn't
removed anything.
Also heard of some guys getting their license notarised as full
before trusting it to DVLA
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Supermoto_Fan
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PostPosted: 15:26 - 09 Dec 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
is there any negative points to not applying for a updated license once your 2 years are up? Karma
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DrSnoosnoo
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PostPosted: 15:32 - 09 Dec 2014    Post subject: Re: DVLA Problems (=<25kW code removal) Reply with quote
MC wrote:
Jamie S wrote:

Has any one else had this problem ?

Lots of people, plenty of threads on this forum saying not to surrender your license.


Didn't MCN also do an article which says that if you say you have had a full licence for 2 years, (which should be 0 since it has just upgraded) you are committing insurance fraud and won't be covered blah blah blah
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Rogerborg
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Joined: 26 Oct 2010
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PostPosted: 15:39 - 09 Dec 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
Sadly, this is what they do.

See this article for the problems that it causes with insurers.

I had a long and surprisingly well informed email back-and-forth with the DVLA about it, where they pleaded ignorance that this could possibly be a problem, and said that they had no interest in changing it because Computer Says.

Laminate your pass certificate, put it in a fire safe, and never, ever surrender the only copy of your license. The joke is that DVSA Derek doesn't even "send it off" when you get another category, he just shreds it.
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Jamie S
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PostPosted: 16:05 - 09 Dec 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
Bugger , so there is no way to get it (correctly) changed back to 2010 again now ? As there is no such thing as an A2 "licence" then from 4/2010 I clearly held a category A licence with a 25kw restriction code , similar to if you had code 01 "Must wear corrective lenses/glasses" and your sight improved to the point where you no longer needed them to drive they would just remove the code and not change the date "from" to the date you could see with uncorrected vision, there system contradicts itself.
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Cadbury
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Joined: 05 Oct 2011
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PostPosted: 17:01 - 09 Dec 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
If you've kept all your pass certificates then surely you can get the correct dates put back on, as you have proof that the DVLA messed up.
Probably not though knowing the DVLA Sad
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P.
Red Rocket



Joined: 14 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: 17:02 - 09 Dec 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
CadillacMoon wrote:
If you've kept all your pass certificates then surely you can get the correct dates put back on, as you have proof that the DVLA messed up.
Probably not though knowing the DVLA Sad


I still have my original card licence, also scans of it that I give to the insurance numpties.

Photoshop yo
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Going
Nearly there...



Joined: 26 Feb 2012
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PostPosted: 17:29 - 09 Dec 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
What does your paper licence say.
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suburban myth
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PostPosted: 17:30 - 09 Dec 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
Seems they've taken the correct course of action to me. In 2010, you had a license to ride a bike up to 25kw. In 2012 you had a license to ride a bike above 25kw. What's the issue? As far as the insurer is concerned you've only been entitled to ride anything above 25kw.

Under the new licensing system, where the categories are effectively broken down, providing clarity with previous entitlements. What I'm getting at is that when you move from A2 to A under the modern system, A2 will show as previous entitlement in the relevant section and A will have a new 'born on' date for insurance purposes.

Putting it in simple terms, this is a bit like expecting them to have awarded C+E from the same date you passed C. Different categories.
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Jamie S
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PostPosted: 17:31 - 09 Dec 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
CadillacMoon wrote:
If you've kept all your pass certificates then surely you can get the correct dates put back on, as you have proof that the DVLA messed up.
Probably not though knowing the DVLA Sad


I have my DSA10 pass certificate dated 21/4/2010 and under "Has passed" it is listed as category A2 (which as the time wasn't a real cat!) and the box for restrictions is empty
It really does not make sense, I hope there is a way to resolve this but knowing the dvla I doubt it!
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suburban myth
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PostPosted: 17:37 - 09 Dec 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
Paddy. wrote:
CadillacMoon wrote:
If you've kept all your pass certificates then surely you can get the correct dates put back on, as you have proof that the DVLA messed up.
Probably not though knowing the DVLA Sad


I still have my original card licence, also scans of it that I give to the insurance numpties.

Photoshop yo


So when the insurance cross check with the DVLA (lets say you end up in a full liability claim) are you gonna come on here and bitch about the butt hurt when they go to town on you in court for providing an invalid document?

Keeping hold of an old license to show the DVLA their misgivings and prove entitlements when your new ticket comes back with something missing is one thing, but showing it to an insurer?

If you produced it for the Police, they'd have a whale of a time listening to your excuses for showing a license with the wrong issue number. Automatic "what's he got to hide?" mode would come in to play.
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carvell
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Joined: 05 Sep 2003
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PostPosted: 17:38 - 09 Dec 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
Jamie S wrote:
CadillacMoon wrote:
If you've kept all your pass certificates then surely you can get the correct dates put back on, as you have proof that the DVLA messed up.
Probably not though knowing the DVLA Sad


I have my DSA10 pass certificate dated 21/4/2010 and under "Has passed" it is listed as category A2 (which as the time wasn't a real cat!) and the box for restrictions is empty
It really does not make sense, I hope there is a way to resolve this but knowing the dvla I doubt it!

The DVLA haven't messed up, this is standard procedure. There's nothing to resolve - it's happened to thousands and thousands of people.

It still has your original test pass date under "Previous Entitlements" on your counterpart, so you should be fine.
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Rogerborg
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Joined: 26 Oct 2010
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PostPosted: 18:20 - 09 Dec 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
carvell wrote:
It still has your original test pass date under "Previous Entitlements" on your counterpart, so you should be fine.

The counterpart that's being scrapped as of next year?

Jamie S wrote:
As there is no such thing as an A2 "licence"

There wasn't before 2013, but the DVLA choose to record A<=25kW as "A2" under previous entitlement.

They were quite candid that this is wrong, but... Computer Says.
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J.M.
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Joined: 27 Mar 2011
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PostPosted: 18:54 - 09 Dec 2014    Post subject: Re: DVLA Problems (=<25kW code removal) Reply with quote
snoosnoo wrote:
Didn't MCN also do an article which says that if you say you have had a full licence for 2 years, (which should be 0 since it has just upgraded) you are committing insurance fraud and won't be covered blah blah blah


If the insurance company provides the option for you to differentiate between A with and without restriction then possibly. However, they are both a full licence, and if the insurance company doesn't offer the ability for you to differentiate, that's their problem.
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AlanC
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PostPosted: 18:54 - 09 Dec 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
Rogerborg wrote:
but... Computer Says.

So you go here https://www.gov.uk/view-driving-licence and check what the computer says up front. If it's not right then you 'lose' Razz your photocard.

You can also go to a Post Office https://www.postoffice.co.uk/uk-driving-licence-photocard-renewal that offers a renewal service and they'll check (well, they say they'll check before taking your existing card off you) that there are no errors.
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J.M.
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PostPosted: 19:00 - 09 Dec 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
AlanC wrote:
Rogerborg wrote:
but... Computer Says.

So you go here https://www.gov.uk/view-driving-licence and check what the computer says up front. If it's not right then you 'lose' Razz your photocard.


Up to you if you want to risk it.

Pretty sure that the website says something different for me and Rogerborg, yet we both earned the restricted licence.

If they're inconsistent there, where else?
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suburban myth
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PostPosted: 19:11 - 09 Dec 2014    Post subject: Re: DVLA Problems (=<25kW code removal) Reply with quote
J.M. wrote:
snoosnoo wrote:
Didn't MCN also do an article which says that if you say you have had a full licence for 2 years, (which should be 0 since it has just upgraded) you are committing insurance fraud and won't be covered blah blah blah


If the insurance company provides the option for you to differentiate between A with and without restriction then possibly. However, they are both a full licence, and if the insurance company doesn't offer the ability for you to differentiate, that's their problem.


Not really. You've only had a license to ride the bike you're trying to insure since the restriction ended. Telling them anything else will soon become your problem

Yes, they are a full license (carry passengers, no L's, motorways and the like), but for different categories of vehicle. As far as "I've had my license for this long..................." gores, you may as well tell them about your swimming badges.
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DrSnoosnoo
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PostPosted: 19:18 - 09 Dec 2014    Post subject: Re: DVLA Problems (=<25kW code removal) Reply with quote
J.M. wrote:
If the insurance company provides the option for you to differentiate between A with and without restriction then possibly. However, they are both a full licence, and if the insurance company doesn't offer the ability for you to differentiate, that's their problem.


Don't shoot the messenger dude. But now
we all know about this problem, to not call and disclose to the company could be considered wilfully withholding information ?
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Rogerborg
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Joined: 26 Oct 2010
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PostPosted: 19:20 - 09 Dec 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
AlanC wrote:
Rogerborg wrote:
but... Computer Says.

So you go here https://www.gov.uk/view-driving-licence and check what the computer says up front.

That's what it says today.

When it says something different tomorrow, how would you go about convincing the DVLA that Computer got it wrong?

As far as they're concerned, Computer never gets it wrong.
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J.M.
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PostPosted: 19:48 - 09 Dec 2014    Post subject: Re: DVLA Problems (=<25kW code removal) Reply with quote
suburban myth wrote:
Not really. You've only had a license to ride the bike you're trying to insure since the restriction ended. Telling them anything else will soon become your problem

Yes, they are a full license (carry passengers, no L's, motorways and the like), but for different categories of vehicle. As far as "I've had my license for this long..................." gores, you may as well tell them about your swimming badges.


No. I've had that licence the whole time, providing that I restrict it to conform to the power to weight ratio.

Lets play the other hand. You pass your A<=25kw licence on a 125. Carry on riding a 125 for 2 years. 3rd year, still riding a 125, but now you've only had a licence for 0 years. You've certainly had a licence to ride that bike for more than 0 years.

If the insurance company asks you how long you have had an unrestricted licence, that is a different question, and the answer would be 0 years.

(And the DVLA also show my licence as being full A with no restriction since the date that I passed... not had the restriction removed)
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lihp
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Joined: 22 Sep 2010
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PostPosted: 19:55 - 09 Dec 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
suburban myth wrote:
Seems they've taken the correct course of action to me. In 2010, you had a license to ride a bike up to 25kw. In 2012 you had a license to ride a bike above 25kw. What's the issue? As far as the insurer is concerned you've only been entitled to ride anything above 25kw.

Under the new licensing system, where the categories are effectively broken down, providing clarity with previous entitlements. What I'm getting at is that when you move from A2 to A under the modern system, A2 will show as previous entitlement in the relevant section and A will have a new 'born on' date for insurance purposes.

Putting it in simple terms, this is a bit like expecting them to have awarded C+E from the same date you passed C. Different categories.


Wrong, as when the <25kW was in effect, there was only 1 single entitlement, there was no A1 or A2.

It was simply an A license with a restriction, so the A category was obtained 2 years prior to it is being shown on the card.
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bikertomm
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PostPosted: 20:45 - 09 Dec 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
Well, like fuck am I sending my card anywhere soon. Thumbs Up

Winner winner chicken dinner. As far as I'm concerned it's obvious I got my licence on the 9th Nov 2012.

It's obvious therefore due to my age and the year that I passed on the old 33bhp tests.

It's also obvious to then assume I can now ride anything my heart desires; and insurance will be told I've had a full licence since that date, because I have.

Thumbs Up

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