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chickenstrip
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 Posted: 12:45 - 13 Dec 2014  Post subject: Ricky Gadson and the Kawasaki H2 |
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I couldn't find this elsewhere on the site, so hope I'm not repeating an already posted item.
Suddenly, the KTM1290SDR looks tame!
https://www.motorcycle.com/features/riding-kawasakis-supercharged-h2h2r-rickey-gadson-interview.html
My dream garage just got a whole load more expensive 
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| Posted: 13:02 - 13 Dec 2014 Post subject: |
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| Fisty wrote: | He ruined it. |
Well, the extended s/arm is obviously purely for the drag strip. It was more the promise of what the bike is capable of that got me drooling. And yes, I know it's a promo vid, but did heighten my interest another notch. And I'd definitely say it was a bike to have in the collection if you had unlimited funds for such things.
I've had an interest in drag racing since I was a kid, and used to avidly read about who ran what on the strip. Bill Hunter's Spondon Turbo always inspired me back then, but alas, never had the funds to build anything like it myself. Oh well, another on the (ever extending) bucket list 
As to this article:
“I went through the gearbox, short-shifted every gear, and got to fourth gear and nailed the throttle – I figured in fourth gear I’m safe,” Gadson recalls. “And the gas tank punched me in the chest! That got my attention! It is a handful, to say the least.”
 me likey!
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Albigularis
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chickenstrip
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| Posted: 13:50 - 13 Dec 2014 Post subject: |
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They're talking over an eighth mile run, not quarter. It sounds like at first he couldn't use full throttle, but managed to after he got a few runs in and got used to it. It doesn't seem clear about what he got in what state of alteration though. And yes, of course it's advertising, but I thought interesting nevertheless. It will be even more interesting to see if anyone takes this bike to the strip in anger/competition over the next couple of years. At first look, it seems like it has a lot of potential, but we'll see what the top tuners, especially in the States, make of it.
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stevo as b4
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| Posted: 14:08 - 13 Dec 2014 Post subject: |
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I'm sure both the H2 and H2R are incredible motorcycles with unique power delivery and massive straightline pace. The comments I'd like to make are:
1, Is the trellis frame for looks and exclusivity, or was it required for packaging all the mechanicals in, if a beam frame would not give enough space?
2, The Power output of the road bike being over 200bhp at the r/w and say maybe up to 14-15% more at the crank, is this ever going to be of any use to anyone?
Not likely on uk roads, and FI means there's no race class possibly other than Drag/sprinting that it could fit into, and even then the bike will as the vid shows need extensive chassis mods to be competitive.
3, H2/H2R is a slightly ugly, but also very cool flagship willy waving bike, and it does not pretend to be anything other either! The ZX10R will have a better chassis and std for std probably lap most uk circuits faster as it's more like a race bike in it's design, or more biased towards being suitable for race use.
The ZX14 is a sports tourer here in the uk and to most of the world markets too. It's only the USA that see's the ZX14/ZZR as a sportsbike, as that is how they like their sports bikes to end up, long low and fat with huge oversize tyres etc. The fact that a 1441cc bike is fast does not change the fact that it's only really any good at being a sports tourer for fast 2up riding. It doesn't do much else very well IMO.
4, This thread would have been so much cooler if it was showing a 1970's Kawasaki H2 750 modified with a supercharger and chassis mods instead of an awkward looking alien angular bike that has nothing on the looks or style of the original H2 Kawasaki. |
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chickenstrip
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| Posted: 14:32 - 13 Dec 2014 Post subject: |
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| stevo as b4 wrote: |
4, This thread would have been so much cooler if it was showing a 1970's Kawasaki H2 750 modified with a supercharger and chassis mods instead of an awkward looking alien angular bike that has nothing on the looks or style of the original H2 Kawasaki. |
Does this go some way to appeasing you?
https://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b550/nicknicklxs/dencoh2c001_zps5be04723.jpg
Sorry it's not supercharged, but I don't think an H2 2T engine would take it without VERY substantial modification (e.g. start by replace the crankcases with something a bit stronger - see this month's Practical Sportsbikes  ).
This bike had a full Denco porting job plus 34mm Mikunis and Denco spannies. It was a total loony handful, completely impractical for the road. It would put a big grin on your face and scare the living bejesus out of you by turns. But I'm so glad I had it for a while
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| Posted: 15:08 - 13 Dec 2014 Post subject: |
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Now that looks cool, but also sounds like way too much engine for the chassis too! 
The Kawacati in the current PS mag is pretty awesome to look at and I bet it's brilliant to ride too! It also as you say has some very fancy strong billet crankcases and the 6speed box. The only thing the guy needs to add now is an Eaton M45 and it will make Kawasaki's new flagship look very meh! |
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chickenstrip
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| Posted: 15:41 - 13 Dec 2014 Post subject: |
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 Bloody hell, previewed this an thought, jeez, TL;DR or what?!
So, I guess TL;DR for this would be, I applaud innovation, ultimates and variation in motorcycling. Supercharged sports bike? Well, why not!
| stevo as b4 wrote: | Now that looks cool, but also sounds like way too much engine for the chassis too!
The Kawacati in the current PS mag is pretty awesome to look at and I bet it's brilliant to ride too! It also as you say has some very fancy strong billet crankcases and the 6speed box. The only thing the guy needs to add now is an Eaton M45 and it will make Kawasaki's new flagship look very meh! |
Yeah, definitely way too much for the stock chassis. In a way, that's what made it so appealing though, although I'd love to have it back and sort a chassis to keep it more under control. The Kawacati is the way to go with that!
But that's how it all progresses, isn't it. The H2 from the 70s was made by some folks to be an ultimate, and I think that's the logical (or, a logical) way to go with this new machine, or seems so to me on first reports.
Definitely more use for the strip than the short circuit - how is a supercharger any use to anyone on the latter in "practical" terms?
Run-what-ya-brung had a spell of great popularity in this country for a while in the 80s, I guess until the focus shifted to sports bikes that were more about the handling. It looks like the new H2 combines the best of both worlds? But yeah, not sure you can do that without compromising one or both aspects. Both styles interest me, and part of what I liked about Bill Hunter's bike was, here was a machine that put down very low 10 second 1/4 mile times (did he ever get sub 10s? I don't recall), but then you could adjust the the chain length and have a very good handling (for a big air-cooled lump) bike for the twisties too. I guess that's what is appealing to me here with the new Kwak.
Mad bikes have always appealed to me, and not just for off road use. The 750 Turbo had that appeal for me, as did the first GSXR1100 and the FZR EXUP when that was first released. I guess I've never really grown up in that regard!
I wonder, is it a coincidence that I've had a thing for Kawasakis, and also for Yamaha? Both now and again come out with something different, that challenges the norm. I love all that, it keeps things interesting, and I applaud those that try it. I got so fed up with seeing yet another rehash of another 90s sports bike in the magazines, and every issue of every title seemed to have a CBR600 test 
And I'm not even knocking sports bikes when I say that; they are where many of the developments and improvements on other styles come from after all, and are today's ultimates. But I don't think you have to be restricted to that style to produce something that really has the potential to be a game-changer. Long live diversity!
Oh, and stevo, I would include the V-Max in that! What practical use does it have on UK roads?
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Ariel Badger
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| Posted: 18:51 - 13 Dec 2014 Post subject: |
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| chickenstrip wrote: | They're talking over an eighth mile run, not quarter. It sounds like at first he couldn't use full throttle, but managed to after he got a few runs in and got used to it. It doesn't seem clear about what he got in what state of alteration though. And yes, of course it's advertising, but I thought interesting nevertheless. It will be even more interesting to see if anyone takes this bike to the strip in anger/competition over the next couple of years. At first look, it seems like it has a lot of potential, but we'll see what the top tuners, especially in the States, make of it. |
I can do 1/8 on my 36 Ariel in 9.1, those are 1/4 times.
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chickenstrip
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| Posted: 19:16 - 13 Dec 2014 Post subject: |
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| Ariel Badger wrote: |
I can do 1/8 on my 36 Ariel in 9.1, those are 1/4 times. |
Actually, yeah, looks like you're right:
"Back to back, on the same day, the lowered 14R and slightly less-lowered H2 ran identical ETs: 9.16 seconds. The big difference came at the top end, with the 14R hitting a relatively paltry 148 mph (!) compared to the H2’s blazing 160-mph trap speed."
And then:
"The next step in transforming the H2/H2R to a serious dragstripper was fitting it with a longer swingarm that extended its wheelbase to 68 inches. In addition, Gould Motorsports made tweaks to the ECU.
With less of a propensity to wheelie during his next dragstrip session, Gadson says he was finally able to use full throttle in second gear. As a result, a full second was trimmed off his ET on the stock-wheelbase H2, dipping to a phenomenal 8.21-second blast."
Which seems pretty damn good to me for the relatively minor work from stock done to achieve it. Give it a bit of development by a good tuner....
Mind you, I'm pretty out of touch with what people are getting on the strip these days in the various classes.
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| Posted: 22:07 - 14 Dec 2014 Post subject: |
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| 27cows wrote: | There is and will always be only one H2. And that's this bit of evil handling, fuel glugging, excessively smoky bit of a wobbly old shite. |
What you say there is spot on really, but you still hurt my feelings calling it "shite"
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| Posted: 22:35 - 14 Dec 2014 Post subject: |
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Kawasaki's and Yamaha's are Stevo's special favourites too! I'd ride anything Jap that's interesting though, and I could become a pervert over Italian 125's and 200's quite easily too!
Why do I need a V-max?
I've never had a bike that's got a huge big black engine and no chassis around it before, so I need to experience this!
Also I've always said if I went big bike again, it needs to be over a 1litre engine just because I want a bigger badge on the side!
Also I can't ride for shit, sportsbikes are wasted on me! I never had more than 105mph out of a 100bhp 600cc in the uk, never scraped the pegs/fairing or used the capabilities available. A 1000cc sportsbike would be a waste of machinery on me, and also I've gone allergic to fairings, and clip-ons in the last 10years.
A V-max with a 1300cc big bore, 11.5:1 pistons, flowed heads and Flatslide race carbs, and 4-1 drag pipe sounds like an ideal machine to me for popping out for a summer pint or taking to events etc.
I'd like to do bulldog bash one year, and I live fairly close to Avon park race way, so I could always have a go at practicing laying long dark lines on the tarmac too.  |
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| Posted: 23:23 - 14 Dec 2014 Post subject: |
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| 27cows wrote: | 45 years down the line |
Jeez, 45 years! You really know how to put the boot in, don't you
What was it really about those days? Will the current generation really have nothing to compare when they get older and look back on the bikes of their youth? There certainly isn't anything like the mayhem Yamaha caused when it introduced the LCs, is there?
Today's bikes have stonking performance, but it's all so well controlled. When I got talking to a couple of guys in Llandovery the other month who both had KTM 1290 SDRs, they were almost at pains to point out that the things were really quite safe and rideable. And part of me was thinking that really wasn't what I wanted to hear Is everything too sanitised now? The risk of riding these things was all part of it for me back then.
But I reckon there will be those who will be able to look back, as long as there are bikes like the KTM, the H2R, maybe a couple of others. Only problem is, they're all so damned expensive! When you threw your LC down the road, it really did seem like you could almost just kick it straight again and hop right back on. Maybe that's what's really missing now? Too complex, too serious, too much of a commitment, too much worry; where did it all go wrong?!
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| Posted: 00:53 - 15 Dec 2014 Post subject: |
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| Albigularis wrote: | But many of us have had our dangers presented this way, rather than by bikes that are inherently designed to be dangerous. |
I think we had a bit of both of that
It's not that they were designed to be dangerous. It's just that there hadn't been the development of decent chassis, suspension etc back then. I suppose really it's daft to hark back to that, but it certainly introduced a different dimension to riding bikes.
And maybe it was just the crowd I ran with, but there wasn't much talk of safe riding or going up the cc in stages, getting used to things. You just went out and bought the most powerful thing your wallet could handle. People did make the effort to improve handling, but a lot just tuned the nuts off what were already pretty scary bikes too.
But yeah, licensing changes, emissions strangulation and general H&S attitude has killed those days. That's probably a good thing, but I'm glad I got to experience a whiff of that madness before it all got stomped on.
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| Posted: 13:50 - 15 Dec 2014 Post subject: |
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| chris-red wrote: | I think sports bikes, have plateaued for usable power. It is pointless throwing ponies at them now.
I would bet very few people on this forum would be faster round track or on a strip on a 300bhp bike compared to a 200bhp bike.
At what speed do you reckon 200bhp starts to lose out to 300bhp, 150mph? how often is that 'usable'?
The H2R is a cool bike, but I doubt 99% of owners will get anything more from it than the H2. Other than Willy waving rights that is! |
But that's what people do, they push the envelope*. That's how we get all our modern technology. You have 200bhp, you find ways of controlling it, harnessing it. Then you get 300bhp, and you look for ways to do the same. It's progress, achievement. New technology comes from solving such problems. That's the reason for it in my mind.
*Inb4 "no matter how much you push the envelope, it'll still be stationery."
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| Posted: 14:37 - 15 Dec 2014 Post subject: |
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| chickenstrip wrote: | | chris-red wrote: | I think sports bikes, have plateaued for usable power. It is pointless throwing ponies at them now.
I would bet very few people on this forum would be faster round track or on a strip on a 300bhp bike compared to a 200bhp bike.
At what speed do you reckon 200bhp starts to lose out to 300bhp, 150mph? how often is that 'usable'?
The H2R is a cool bike, but I doubt 99% of owners will get anything more from it than the H2. Other than Willy waving rights that is! |
But that's what people do, they push the envelope*. That's how we get all our modern technology. You have 200bhp, you find ways of controlling it, harnessing it. Then you get 300bhp, and you look for ways to do the same. It's progress, achievement. New technology comes from solving such problems. That's the reason for it in my mind.
*Inb4 "no matter how much you push the envelope, it'll still be stationery." |
The problem is the front lifting (tyres are good enough for grip now), this can be solved 2 ways, longer wheelbase (which spoils handling) or electronic aids, which all ultimately kill power to the the rear wheel.
Therefore more power is pointless.
This was even shown in the article. This new £40k bike, in the hands of a professional is 1/4 of a second faster over 1/8 of a mile, than an 8 year old £10k bike.
Yes I know 1/4 second is a chunk over 1/8 of a mile but once you take into account, the bloke riding was (I assume) the dogs bollocks of a drag rider AND Kawasaki probably massaged the figures slight it isn't that much difference.
The only time any of us could make use of the extra power is at silly speeds where you would need to be on a runway I think.
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