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| Irn-Bru |
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 Irn-Bru World Chat Champion

Joined: 13 Aug 2009 Karma :   
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 Posted: 12:39 - 21 Feb 2015 Post subject: Stuck in a rut (job woes) |
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Finished Uni in 2010, came out with a Foundation Degree in Network and Security Technologies, couldn't be bothered to top it up to an Honours straight away. Since then have not held an IT related job, am a van driver instead. Have had chances at call centre work but temp contracts only and honestly I hate the idea of it and would rather drive than spend all day listening to people complain over the phone. Now I'm at the point where I'm too old (24 ) for working as you learn schemes, and even too qualified for others because I have a degree. I'm contemplating going back to uni part time and finishing my degree off, in the hopes it will land me a decent job at some stage. Moaning about my situation isn't helping and I am feeling pretty helpless at this point. Applying for warehouse work or even bus driving would get me more pay in the short run but ultimately there's not much room for progression in those sorts of jobs.
I also have a few options to what I can top my degree up to, Applied Computing (a bit of everything, networking, web design etc.), Networking or Forensics. I do like networking but my lack of certificates would hold me back, leaning towards forensics but wondering if that will limit me to the police force only? Also slightly worried that it's been 5 years now so might be a steep learning curve to get back on track, but I do have all of my past work saved and a PT degree should be fairly relaxed.
tl;dr I want a career not just a job. ____________________ KTM 990 SMT & Suzuki DR-Z 400 SM
Last edited by Irn-Bru on 22:06 - 15 Mar 2015; edited 1 time in total |
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| Andy_Pagin |
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 Andy_Pagin World Chat Champion

Joined: 08 Nov 2010 Karma :    
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 Posted: 14:54 - 21 Feb 2015 Post subject: |
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Personally I think degree level IT education is generally a waste of time unless you're a super-intelligent being whose obviously going to be a high flyer.
Most of us are not one of those. IT isn't a profession, it's a trade or more accurately a craft. Out tools are computers and our raw materials are data, apart from that it's no different to building, plumbing, coopering or gun-smithing.
Find yourself a job within your comfort zone, with a small-medium sized family run company ideally and make yourself indispensable.
When I was doing A-levels in the 1980s I looked at the computing degree courses around at the time and concluded that almost everything they covered would be obsolete or irrelevant my the time I left uni. So I skipped uni and went for a job. Looking back I think I made the right decision. IT is an extremely fast moving and unpredictable beast, and we're currently heading out of a long period of 'Microsoft everything' stability. Sitting in lecture halls studying IT you may as well be studying history. ____________________ They're coming to take me away, ho-ho, hee-hee, ha-haaa, hey-hey,
the men in white coats are coming to take me away.
Yamaha Vity -> YBR125 -> FZS600 Fazer -> FZ1-S Fazer |
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| Skudd |
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 Skudd Super Spammer

Joined: 01 Oct 2006 Karma :   
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| Jewlio Iglesias |
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 Jewlio Iglesias Banned
Joined: 10 Jan 2015 Karma :     
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| barrkel |
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 barrkel World Chat Champion
Joined: 30 Jul 2012 Karma :   
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 Posted: 16:24 - 21 Feb 2015 Post subject: |
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| Andy_Pagin wrote: | Personally I think degree level IT education is generally a waste of time unless you're a super-intelligent being whose obviously going to be a high flyer. |
A computer science degree is not a waste of time, as long as you get at least a 2.1. Discrete maths, algorithms, data structures, algorithmic analysis, compiler theory, these are all things I use on a day to day basis. And further, if you ever want to emigrate to the US and get a H-1B visa, you'll need a degree. Many other country entry requirements are similar.
More general IT - systems administration, network configuration etc. - that's an area which changes a lot and is largely specific to the products on the market at any one time. I don't think a university education in this pays off.
However, IT is heading in a devops direction; using more programming tools to automate administration, massively reducing the amount of repetitive clicking and typing to set things up, moving away from ad-hoc scripts and towards componentized recipes plugged into configuration systems like Puppet, Chef, Ansible, Salt etc. If you know how to program but prefer systems administration, this is a massive growth area right now, and good candidates are in high demand. Most programmers prefer programming. People who know how to program but prefer SA can line up fairly hefty wages right now. ____________________ Bikes: S1000R, SH350; Exes: Vity 125, PS125, YBR125, ER6f, VFR800, Brutale 920, CB600F, SH300x4
Best road ever ridden: www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2MhNxUEYtQ |
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| Kaya75 |
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 Kaya75 Trackday Trickster
Joined: 11 Jan 2015 Karma :  
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 Posted: 19:56 - 21 Feb 2015 Post subject: |
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OP post, where are you, trouble is if you are not city central IT is tough to get into, you say you want a career, go get one - they don't give give them out. There is loads of placements and internships in the big organisations and firm, mostly based in London though. There is some big companies outside. But if you want the bright lights you need to get your self out and about. Check all top 100 companies websites follow the links to internship/graduates / working for us. They offer placements some paid some not, but you need that first step. So a career is for life? You may work hard and really hard for twenty years before you get to where you envisage yourself to be.
But at some point you'll probably have to work in place where you don't earn enough to live, but have to live to work / for the job for the career right? You'll spend time in one room digs and sharing bathrooms, but still have to buy tge best for the career right? If you aren't prepared to go get one why would anyone want to give you a career?
It's a tough time graduates are two a penny and IT is vast and young and fickle, but there is work there and there are people who can help you, just find them
Goodluck :up |
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| Kaya75 |
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 Kaya75 Trackday Trickster
Joined: 11 Jan 2015 Karma :  
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 Posted: 20:50 - 21 Feb 2015 Post subject: |
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OP post, where are you, trouble is if you are not city central IT is tough to get into, you say you want a career, go get one - they don't give give them out. There is loads of placements and internships in the big organisations and firm, mostly based in London though. There is some big companies outside. But if you want the bright lights you need to get your self out and about. Check all top 100 companies websites follow the links to internship/graduates / working for us. They offer placements some paid some not, but you need that first step. So a career is for life? You may work hard and really hard for twenty years before you get to where you envisage yourself to be.
But at some point you'll probably have to work in place where you don't earn enough to live, but have to live to work / for the job for the career right? You'll spend time in one room digs and sharing bathrooms, but still have to buy tge best for the career right? If you aren't prepared to go get one why would anyone want to give you a career?
It's a tough time graduates are two a penny and IT is vast and young and fickle, but there is work there and there are people who can help you, just find them
Goodluck :up |
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| angryjonny |
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 angryjonny World Chat Champion

Joined: 01 Sep 2006 Karma :    
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 Posted: 21:48 - 21 Feb 2015 Post subject: |
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I've been a developer, technical consultant, business consultant, software architect and product manager and never in that time have I got my head around networking. I'm sure there are some useful skills to learn but it never, to me, looked all that interesting. Where development is like carpentry, to me, networking always looked like assembling flat pack furniture.
In my experience, a degree in something computery is relatively essential in getting a decent software engineering job or similar. This isn't because you'll learn stuff in your degree that is essential (my final year project was in speech recognition - I have used the skills I learned building the drag-and-drop front end to my app way more than I've used any speech recognition knowledge since then) but because a reasonable degree in Computer Science or something is shorthand for "I can do computers, me". Yes there are some very very talented people who don't have a degree in the subject but there are also a lot of chancers, and having the degree takes the guesswork out of it for the recruiter - it means, essentially, that you can write "hello world" in 5 languages, and when you start your team leader will be able to teach you the rest (like not to call your variables Bob and Fred). |
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| Irn-Bru |
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 Irn-Bru World Chat Champion

Joined: 13 Aug 2009 Karma :   
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| duhawkz |
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 duhawkz World Chat Champion

Joined: 03 Dec 2006 Karma :  
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 Posted: 22:28 - 21 Feb 2015 Post subject: |
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| barrkel wrote: | However, IT is heading in a devops direction; using more programming tools to automate administration, massively reducing the amount of repetitive clicking and typing to set things up, moving away from ad-hoc scripts and towards componentized recipes plugged into configuration systems like Puppet, Chef, Ansible, Salt etc. If you know how to program but prefer systems administration, this is a massive growth area right now, and good candidates are in high demand. Most programmers prefer programming. People who know how to program but prefer SA can line up fairly hefty wages right now. |
^ that's pretty much my job
I haven't got a degree I started in support, moved on to system administrator, then developed a knack for scripting and programming.
I am currently studying computer science with the OU because I'd like to do move more into programming and I feed a CS degree would help kick that off and also help improve my employability over all. ____________________ "The guy is a worthless cunt and I honestly believe I would be a slightly happier person if he died." - Chris-Red |
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| Rogerborg |
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 Rogerborg nimbA

Joined: 26 Oct 2010 Karma :    
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 Posted: 23:16 - 21 Feb 2015 Post subject: |
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| barrkel wrote: | Discrete maths, algorithms, data structures, algorithmic analysis, compiler theory, these are all things I use on a day to day basis. |
Is that a fact? ____________________ Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike |
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| barrkel |
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 barrkel World Chat Champion
Joined: 30 Jul 2012 Karma :   
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 Posted: 00:20 - 22 Feb 2015 Post subject: |
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| Rogerborg wrote: | | barrkel wrote: | Discrete maths, algorithms, data structures, algorithmic analysis, compiler theory, these are all things I use on a day to day basis. |
Is that a fact? |
It is a fact. I work on an application that has a built in web-based expression editor, which is converted to a rule language, which in turn is interpreted by several different back ends; one, a Java interpreter, another a C++ interpreter. Why two interpreters? Historical reasons, marketing reasons, startup expediency reasons. That just in itself takes up a bunch of standard data structures, algorithms and compiler theory.
The core of our product applies a bunch more discrete mathematics and makes algorithmic analysis important. It's basically comparing two lists, which naively is an O(n*m) problem (n and m being the lengths of the lists). When n and m number in the millions, it's important to be smarter than that. There is statistical analysis and heuristics that can be applied to reduce the problem to smaller subsets, and dynamic optimization of the problem requires algorithm analysis of the subset solutions. It's also nice to be able to warn the user that their run will take hours in one case, but potentially minutes with different rules. That's an exercise almost purely in algorithmic analysis. ____________________ Bikes: S1000R, SH350; Exes: Vity 125, PS125, YBR125, ER6f, VFR800, Brutale 920, CB600F, SH300x4
Best road ever ridden: www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2MhNxUEYtQ |
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| SQL |
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 SQL World Chat Champion

Joined: 09 Aug 2012 Karma :   
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| duhawkz |
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 duhawkz World Chat Champion

Joined: 03 Dec 2006 Karma :  
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 Posted: 09:55 - 22 Feb 2015 Post subject: |
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Chef is much more win ____________________ "The guy is a worthless cunt and I honestly believe I would be a slightly happier person if he died." - Chris-Red |
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| Pete. |
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 Pete. Super Spammer

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| Andy_Pagin |
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 Andy_Pagin World Chat Champion

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| nowhere.elysium |
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 nowhere.elysium The Pork Lord

Joined: 02 Mar 2009 Karma :    
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 Posted: 13:46 - 22 Feb 2015 Post subject: |
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I'm so glad I don't do IT stuff any more. Unless you're obscenely specialised, it's really, really dull work. I'd gone from first to third-tier support, then to system administrator and I just stopped giving a damn about any of it around that point.
I have dabbled in doing some of the bespoke scripting/programming solutions (low level stuff - process automation, not full application programming), but I was thoroughly burned out by then.
My current job of making stuff is far more satisfying. ____________________ '10 SV650SF, '83 GS650GT (it lives!), Questionable DIY dash project, 3D Printer project, Lasercutter project |
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| stevo as b4 |
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 stevo as b4 World Chat Champion
Joined: 17 Jul 2003 Karma :   
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 Posted: 14:18 - 22 Feb 2015 Post subject: |
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| Pete. wrote: | | barrkel wrote: |
The core of our product applies a bunch more discrete mathematics and makes algorithmic analysis important. It's basically comparing two lists, which naively is an O(n*m) problem (n and m being the lengths of the lists). When n and m number in the millions, it's important to be smarter than that. There is statistical analysis and heuristics that can be applied to reduce the problem to smaller subsets, and dynamic optimization of the problem requires algorithm analysis of the subset solutions. |
Exciting. I'll stick to smashing up buildings  |
Agreed! All I'd like to know is where Barrkel works, the name of the company, and what is the physical end product that they make?
It all sounds a bit like a financial forcasting firm, stocks/shares and or trading in money and assets?
I'm old school, I like to go to work and make/install/fix or deliver something. If I can't see what I'm building/providing or repairing I have no interest and struggle to call it a real job!
Anyway to the OP, we all have some job woes, I'm in the phone/data comms industry, enjoy it too from time to time, but I really want to be a train driver. Realistically as per a recent thread I made asking for advice, without leaving my job and spending years at a train Co. working unrelated positions on far lower salaries than I can manage on, it's unlikely to happen for me now! |
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| Snod Blatter |
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 Snod Blatter Crazy Courier

Joined: 21 Nov 2014 Karma :  
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 Posted: 14:32 - 22 Feb 2015 Post subject: |
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| barrkel wrote: | A computer science degree is not a waste of time, as long as you get at least a 2.1. Discrete maths, algorithms, data structures, algorithmic analysis, compiler theory, these are all things I use on a day to day basis. |
You may use these day to day but I did not do most of these things in my computer science degree. As far as actual jobs go it was quite pointless, not in depth in any one subject to make me employable. I would recommend doing a more specialised degree instead, software engineering will get you a head start and networking is okay, at least employers know what you can probably do rather than the usual question of "So computer science, what did you do exactly?". ____________________ 1994 CB250, 1984 CBX250RS-E, 1989 K100RS, 1995 TRX850, 2016 Z250SL |
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| Clanger |
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 Clanger Stirrer

Joined: 27 May 2004 Karma :    
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| Pete. |
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 Pete. Super Spammer

Joined: 22 Aug 2006 Karma :     
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 Posted: 14:45 - 22 Feb 2015 Post subject: |
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Stuck in a rut in your driving job?
Easy cure - keep out of the inside lane where all the ruts are  ____________________ a.k.a 'Geri'
132.9mph off and walked away. Gear is good, gear is good, gear is very very good  |
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| Andy_Pagin |
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 Andy_Pagin World Chat Champion

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| nowhere.elysium |
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 nowhere.elysium The Pork Lord

Joined: 02 Mar 2009 Karma :    
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 Posted: 14:51 - 22 Feb 2015 Post subject: |
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| Andy_Pagin wrote: | | nowhere.elysium wrote: | Unless you're obscenely specialised, it's really, really dull work. |
True in most trades really, after a while. | Can't argue with that. I think the main trouble was that I work in a university, and things aren't as mobile as they are in the private sector. That's not necessarily a bad thing per se, but it does make for a more stagnant working environment if you're into novelty.
| Andt_Pagin wrote: | One thing I like about programming is that I am actually making things, they're just more ethereal that most craftmens' I prefer to call what I do 'code smithing' than programming. It's a better description. | Again, true. However, scripting security certificate delivery apps and such is far less fun than what I'm doing these days. Now that I'm not coding for my job, I'm doing it creatively for my MSc, and it's distinctly more interesting. Code smithing is a good name for it though: I'll probably appropriate that one  ____________________ '10 SV650SF, '83 GS650GT (it lives!), Questionable DIY dash project, 3D Printer project, Lasercutter project |
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| barrkel |
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 barrkel World Chat Champion
Joined: 30 Jul 2012 Karma :   
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 Posted: 16:46 - 22 Feb 2015 Post subject: |
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| stevo as b4 wrote: | All I'd like to know is where Barrkel works, the name of the company, and what is the physical end product that they make? |
You could figure this one out with sufficient research, linking my handle to my real name, and then to the company - it's public knowledge.
I work for a company called Duco, and we sell reconciliation software as service to financial entities. Reconciliation is in essence comparing lists of things: trades, positions, futures etc. Different systems and entities all keep track of similar underlying things, and regulators require that banks etc. have controls to ensure that things in different systems don't get lost or out of sync. That means comparing the accounts in different systems. Again, comparing lists.
Would be trivial if everybody used the same format for the things in the lists, but they don't. Sometimes they're in Excel, sometimes SWIFT messages, sometimes CSV dumps from internal systems. Different ways of representing the same information need to be transformed so they're compatible. Etc.
Also, we're hiring! ____________________ Bikes: S1000R, SH350; Exes: Vity 125, PS125, YBR125, ER6f, VFR800, Brutale 920, CB600F, SH300x4
Best road ever ridden: www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2MhNxUEYtQ |
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| Andy_Pagin |
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 Andy_Pagin World Chat Champion

Joined: 08 Nov 2010 Karma :    
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 11 years, 227 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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