What to do next? flooded engine?

[TomC]

Hi, you lot are probably sick of all my questions about the problems with my senda, but its getting me down now, unsure where to start.

Ok so it wasnt starting, i changed the spark plug, got a new filter, cleaned and rebuilt the carb and installed a new battery.
First to the battery, the last battery was going ok but i then noticed that it was discharging very quickly, i charged it and it reached about 12.5v then put it in my bike and when it did start it dropped to 10v very quickly. Also, the brake lights have been on and off, on a newly charged battery they worked, but after abit of use they stopped, anyway the same has happened to the brand new battery.

Anyway, after i had rebuilt the carb i think i didnt fit the cover on the bottom back on correctly, and i think this caused it to leak petrol from the base, not knowing at the time, i started the bike up and it was ok, i hadnt set the idle speed and it was very very smokey, is this just the idle speed or could it be caused by the carb leaking?

Anyway that was last week, since then i have installed the new battery, but now it just will not start. I took the plug out and gave it a kick and it is sparking, i have tryed push starting it but it refuses to get going.

So what should i do next as i am quite lost now.
If you have any suggestions i would really appreciate it.

[alains]

your battery elements are dead , replace battery .
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the worst day fishing is better than the best day working

[TomC]

I have put a new battery in. I think it may be the engine flooded, the sparkplug came out oily. How can i sort this out, i dont think my senda has a fuel tap?

[alains]

but the battery has no connection with your oily plug
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the worst day fishing is better than the best day working

[TomC]

Yer i know, two seperate problems

Not too worried about the battery now, just why i cant get the bike started. Ive tryed bump starting and using an external battery so it isnt the battery, the plug came out oily, i left it off all day, hoping it may dry the engine out?
What to do if it is the engine flooded?

[scottc1088]

have you checked the rubber that connects the carb to the manifold
cos mine did this and it just wouldnt start
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2000 Derbi Senda R, Malossi 80cc, evolution n.g. full circle race crankshaft,26mm carb,Malossi mhr exhaust,TNT filter,Hebo reedblock + carbon reeds,Alien front light,Kundo 330mm rear shock,13-53
Breaking 2000 senda r

[TomC]

Yer it looks ok.
Thanks anyway scott

[scottc1088]

wots the compression like?
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2000 Derbi Senda R, Malossi 80cc, evolution n.g. full circle race crankshaft,26mm carb,Malossi mhr exhaust,TNT filter,Hebo reedblock + carbon reeds,Alien front light,Kundo 330mm rear shock,13-53
Breaking 2000 senda r

[cagiva gezzer]

Some more info would help.

Model of Senda, not really important, but if its the old style Senda R i can be more definate as thats the one i had.

Milage

Restricted? Derestricted? Modified?

Age of the bike

Any major work been done on the engine?


Battery
The battery is nothing to do with the starting of the bike. You prob already know this, but somebody else ready this might not realise that the senda is a kick start.

Is the battery charging? You say it drops down to 10V, so i assume you've got a multi meter. measure the voltage across the terminals while the bike is running. The manual will give exact details, but the voltage should rise to to 13/14V when the bike is a medium revs without any lights on.

The battery on the senda gets an easy life as the lights are run completly off the magneto.

Does the brake light and and indicators work when the engine is not runing and the ignition is on?

Oily plug.
Did the bike work before you played with the carb?

If so, that suggests that the carb is not assembled correctly. You do realise that the scews on the side of the carb need to be screwed in by the exact amount otherwise your mixture will be completly messed up? The manual calls it the "air volume adjuster screw" (page 4-2).

If you've set that up correctly, you've got a issue with the oil pump or crank seal.

Check the carb before i go into these matters.

Check the oil pump adjustment by removing the plastic cover on the RH side of the engine. The pully should rotate as the throttle opens and the mark s should line up at closed throttle.

If the bike refuses to start, it can be coaxed into life by preheating the spark plug using a gas hob or butane torch. Hold the plug by the insulator and apply the flame to the electrodes. Once you feel some heat through the insulator screw the plug back in and try starting the engine.


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"because one stroke isnt enough and four strokes waste two"

[alains]

you probably have an ignition problem . first of all you must check the cap , the coil with a ohmeter . take ok the 2 wires feeding the coil mesure the primary of the coil , must be 0.1 to 0.3 ohms . then take off the plug cap (unscrew) , mesure beetween 1 of the coil and the inside of the big black cable , you must find 2700 to 3500 ohms . if every mesure is OK , refit the cap and mesure the pulse generator blue/yellow and ground , must find 180 to 280 ohms
test also your killing switch and the main key switch . i think , if have to go further in investigation , you need the workshop manual
if you can borrow or buy a cheap CDI unit , this is an other way to try
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the worst day fishing is better than the best day working

[TomC]

The bike is a senda R 2000 model, milage of around 15000kms, no major work done to the engine, isnt modified in any way and beleive it is still restricted although not sure. The indicators work when the engine is not running, however the brake lights work on and off one minute they are ok the next they are not.
As for the bike working before i stripped the carb down no it didnt, I did manage to get it started last week after taking the carb apart but the cover on the base was leaking petrol, i took it apart again and hopfully sorted that out. But when it was running it was very smokey and didnt run well. Does this shed any light on what the problem could be?

[TomC]

Oh and i have done the best i can with the carb adjustment without actually seeing how it runs

[cagiva gezzer]

Is the gearbox oil ok? Does the level drop?

15,000km is alot of k's for a little bike and the crank seal might be going.

A leaky crank seal will suck oil into the crank case and cause poor starting and plug oiling. The only prob with the derbi engine is there is no way or checking the level. The level screw on the right hand crank case won't let you guage the level and you can't get a clear look into the filler.

Restricted or not? Not hard to tell as a restricted bike will do 30mph/45-50kph and a derestricted one will do 50-60mph/80-100kph.

If its managing 40mph its derestricted and your top end is on the way out and you're loosing compression.

Does it have enough power to pull every gear? A derestricted bike shouldn't have any probs, while a restricted one will have trouble. A worn topend might reduce the speed to 40mph in 4th with not enough power to pull any faster in 5/6th.

Does the smoke smell like two stoke or does it smell like burnt gear oil? For a bike to smoke from being too rich it has to be really rich and it will hardly run.

Did the bike get used for short runs? An engine used for short runs will get gunked up with unburnt oil.

Not many answers and plenty of questions, but thats the way it is. Might be worth taking the carb to a mechanic and getting them to reset it all (take the settings from the manual) as this removes it from the equation.

My money is on a worn topend or leaky bottom end.

Haven't seized it have you??
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"because one stroke isnt enough and four strokes waste two"

[TomC]

Well i havent had it long, used it for bout 4 journeys And the speedo doesnt work so cant get a decent idea of speed, also its only been used on small roads by me and only kit 5th gear once or twice.
When it did run it didnt smell like 2 stroke but i cant really be sure of that, it was far to smokey and it gave me a headache
Surely it woud start even if the carb settings were abit out? would you suggest that i try the heating up the plug and then try starting it trick?
Also, how do i check the gear box oil then?
Thanks for your help.

[cagiva gezzer]

Like i said, its hard. I'm stumped on that point and i can't think of a method to do it. You could try making a sort of dip stick to check the level.

Try heating up the plug as this always helps to sart a two stroke.

Check that you've actually got some gear oil by unscrewing the crew on the rh crankcase cover. Some should flow out.
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"because one stroke isnt enough and four strokes waste two"

[TomC]

Ok thanks mate, I will do what i can tomorrow.

[yambabe]

Take your reed block up & hold it up to the light. If you can see daylight through it, or if you can suck through it it is leaking & needs replacing. Also, heat your plug on a gas cooker (if you have access to one) before putting it back on your bike.
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Sod falling in love, I wanna fall in chocolate.

[TomC]

Well the reason it wasnt starting was fuel wasnt getting into the carb, but i sorted that by sucking into the vacuum hose. Its now starting, but its smokey, alot smokery than when it was running before, im thinking it could be the mixture settings. Just wanted to know how to adjust it, i know what im adjusting just not sure which way it will adjust, am i right in thinking that turning the screw in will make the mixture leaner? I have set it too the manual i have of screwing it in then backing it off one and half turns at the moment.

[scottc1088]

yea turning it it makes it leaner
is it still smokey when warm?
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2000 Derbi Senda R, Malossi 80cc, evolution n.g. full circle race crankshaft,26mm carb,Malossi mhr exhaust,TNT filter,Hebo reedblock + carbon reeds,Alien front light,Kundo 330mm rear shock,13-53
Breaking 2000 senda r

[TomC]

yer warmed it up for a while, still smoking.

[TomC]

well took it for a quick spin, smoke did die down after a while so im not worried about that. But unfortunately the original problem has come back, I was driving happily along, it lost power and just cut out. So i pulled over, and it started again straight away. Does this sound like it could be worn piston rings? what other things could be causing this?
Thanks for all replies so far.

[cagiva gezzer]

Is the vacum hose conected up correctly?
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"because one stroke isnt enough and four strokes waste two"

[TomC]

yer looks like it.

[Gazdaman]

[TomC]

yer i thought it could be something to do with the carb, i will have to strip it down again tomorrow and check that all the jets are clear and ok.