London 20MPH Zones

[thewhyoffry]

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/20mph-limit-on-major-london-routes-in-radical-plan-to-save-lives-10102995.html

Firstly sorry if this has been covered before but I could not see it on the search.

8 Areas of central London to be trialed with 20 MPH zones starting from next month. As a commuter I know there are already multiple 20MPH zones in place in London. In my own experience I find they cause more problems than solutions when it comes to cyclists accidents. I ride through Islington on my commute which is a 20 zone and I find cyclists overtaking vehicles often past junctions.

Do you think that 20 zones will help save lives? - I mean, if a lorry is taking a corner without seeing a cyclist is this going to change anything, a lorry going 1mph could still cause a death.

They are starting with Commercial Street (Shoreditch) which I know from experience does have a lot of accidents however Great Easten Street has just as many. 50% of the time in rush hour you can not get over 20mph anyway and there are still problems with junctions.

Fine will be 3 points and £100 if caught, digital cameras and plod patrols so just a heads up if you take any of the routes on the map!
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The why of fry

[Rogerborg]

Are a lot of peds (foot and pedal) dying in high speed collisions then? I thought it was mostly being mashed by buses and artics at low speeds.

If I commuted in London, I would give serious consideration to getting an over-powered electric 'pedal' cycle, not registering it, and then just doing whatever the heck I wanted without let or hindrance.
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Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike

[thewhyoffry]

[Orennayar]

I go through a big 20mph zone on my commute, and I can say that the speed are absolutely not respected, be it by motorcyclists, cabs, buses or even police (except me of course ).
I've see quite a lot of mobile speed cameras, mostly on holborn viaduct road and london wall road. Everytime they had somebody stopped it was a moped or a scooter though.
Actually every time I see somebody doing 20 without anything in front of him, I instincly start looking around for the radar
I don't think this will help saving lives though, either the road is busy and everybody is going under 20 or it's empty and people fly through at 40mph and I can't really see how you could kill a pedestrian accidentally in that situation.

However I wouldn't be surprised if those zones are created more for pollution/low emission purpose rather than security.

[Nobby the Bastard]

Bath is basically 4 big 20 mph zones. Didn't stop a tipper truck killing 4 people in one.

ACPO have advised that 20 limits won't be enforced. As a result, everyone just drives through them at 30....
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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha:"Remember this simple rule - scooters are for men who like to feel the breeze on their huge, flapping cunt lips."
Triumph Sprint ST 1050

[barrkel]

I haven't noticed any impact from 20mph zones in Islington (pretty much all roads except for red routes in Islington are 20mph).

Doesn't stop me riding to the conditions at all times. Basically, I go no faster than I can stop for a reasonably expectable hazard. That speed is rarely below 20.

[Vracktal]

I already commute through parts of London with the 20mph limit. Not even the pedalists stick to it, and everyone else treats it like 30 and does 40.

Main problem isn't speed, it's buses and HGVs squishing everything. Doesn't help that London buses have literally tiny mirrors fitted so they can barely see anything anyway.
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2007 BMW R1200R: On road
2009 BMW G650X Challenge: On road
1975 Norton Commando 850: Off road, awaiting recommissioning

[Rogerborg]

[grr666]

[Vracktal]

No but I know someone who does, he bitches about it constantly and even threatened not to drive a route over it.
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2007 BMW R1200R: On road
2009 BMW G650X Challenge: On road
1975 Norton Commando 850: Off road, awaiting recommissioning

[grr666]

Me too, I knew about 300 blokes who drove buses and never heard one of them complain about small mirrors.
In my day driving double deck London buses (20 years ago, ALL central London routes except for one)
all buses had the same style of mirrors. Plastic (because get clumped often by other buses and trucks and the nearside would often wallop
the bus stops if you got your angle wrong) fish eye lens so although physically small
you can see a huge amount in them because 14'6 tall.
I can only assume the standards of training have slipped like everything else has since I did my PCV test.
It's easier to drive a bus than it is a car. But the military (and I'm not joking either) style training I had has
been replaced by a new touchy feely version where you don't have a red faced instructor ripping you a new
one every time you make the smallest of errors.
Anyhow, get used to the 20 zones, they will be everywhere before long. Bristol has become one more or less.
More will follow.
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Ste wrote: Avatars are fine, it's signatures that need turning off.

[ScaredyCat]

[Rogerborg]

[Nobby the Bastard]

I'm pretty sure that people have been done for exceeding the speed limit on pedal bikes in the past.
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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha:"Remember this simple rule - scooters are for men who like to feel the breeze on their huge, flapping cunt lips."
Triumph Sprint ST 1050

[Ste]

https://www.gov.uk/general-rules-all-drivers-riders-103-to-158/control-of-the-vehicle-117-to-126

Speed limits
124
You MUST NOT exceed the maximum speed limits for the road and for your vehicle (see the table below). The presence of street lights generally means that there is a 30 mph (48 km/h) speed limit unless otherwise specified.
Law RTRA sects 81, 86, 89 & sch 6

[In the table below there's no mention of cyclists.]

[ScaredyCat]

[Rogerborg]

Fair point, I've been very tempted to shoe passing pedalists on many occasions.

[rideslikean00...]

Over a certain point excessive speed is dangerous, yes. But you can still be in bad situations at 20mph. I nearly hit a gormless couple who crossed cos they didn't look left and that was about 20mph. It's useless, really, like all the NSL roads that got pushed down to 50mph. It's next to impossible to police and all it does it cause more traffic for the 50% or so of people who choose to obey them, everyone else gets annoyed and then dumb overtakes become an issue.

Causes
More
Problems
Than It
Solves.

---

Lot of cyclists have poor obs, don't see why those who took tests and passed for vehicles with engines should suffer because of this. Lycra lunatics riding two abreast on A roads where cars are doing 40-50mph and so forth, see stupid shit like that at least a dozen times a week. If they don't want to get killed then they should ride smarter.
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Previous/Current Bikes
2013 Yamaha YBR-125ED -> 1997 Yamaha YZF-1000R Thunderace -> 2009 Yamaha XJ-6 Diversion -> 2007 Yamaha FZ6 Fazer S2

[Ste]

Riding on main roads is easy enough, I think that other traffic cut you some slack with regards to how far out you are in the lane if you're riding at a reasonable speed. Bonus points if you're making some type of effort to minimise how much of a delay you're causing to anyone else and let traffic pass when convenient / safe.

There's community speed watch signs around the estate I live on which is of course a 20mph zone. Much cycling fun will be had if I notice when the OAPs are here with a speed gun.

[Rogerborg]

[rideslikean00...]

[wr6133]

[Ste]

A noticeable amount of people seem to cut you a bit of slack with not riding in the gutter if you're also not blocking an unnecessary around of the lane and you're going at a reasonable enough speed.

To massively increase your chances of not becoming road kill, all you've got to do is not behave like militant vloggers do.

If you're not keeping pace with the traffic then you need / should make some allowance for people to overtake you if they can't do so easily.

It's not that complicated to reduce the chances of anyone raging at you on your bicycle that you get to use on the roads without having to pay road tax!

[czakal]

I must say that the UK is somewhat unusual in allowing urban speeds of 30mph. I believe in most other countries it's closer to 20mph? Though I agree with most people here that the speed reduction may not help safety as much as I thought--or at least, it would have to be enforced better if it's meant to make a difference. When I try to do 20mph in a 20 zone, I feel like I get tailgated quite often or just left behind by everyone doing nearly 30.

[Joncrete Cungle]

We have slathers of unenforced 20 zones, all they appear to have achieved is make the dozy pillocks permanently plugged in to their idiot gadget totally oblivious to what is going on around them. The local rag reported that quadraspazzings had actually increased since the 20 zones have been introduced.