semi-obstructive dealer - exhaust warranty issue.

[hazza]

Hi,

I test rode a Diversion 900 last week and on the test ride told the dealer the exhaust was leaking at the collector. I was assured the problem would be fixed if I went ahead with the sale. I took the plunge and traded my perfectly working (but no longer suitable for my needs) bike in on Friday. I was told the exhaust was sealed 'as well as it could be' and I inspected the work. At this point I could find no evidence of any leak at all so was happy to proceed with the sale. I rode the bike home and put it away for the night. The following day I took the mrs out on it and I could hear that the exhaust was blowing again, accompanied by a slightly irregular idle. This is after less than 50 miles of riding. I've called him today as it was the first opportunity to do so when they were open.

I also had an issue with a weak centre stand spring that drops down going over bumps which he said they will happily take a look at. When we got to the subject of the exhaust he got a bit defensive and said that he did 'mention' the exhaust to me when buying it. I let him know politely that he also 'mentioned' when I initially looked at the bike in the showroom that the exhaust was in good condition. It's leaking, so it's not. I haven't yet told him that I also have a print out of the Ad that is still online stating 'runs and rides as it should, tyres are good and so is the exhaust and silencers'.

It was cold this morning and I could clearly see the steam from the exhaust exiting around the collector and where the silencers join. I'm of the opinion that the bike needs a new collector box and he doesn't want to pay for one. He's told me there isn't anything wrong with the collector box but it's an old bike and so not perfect. Here comes my main question:

He has said that the exhausts on Divvy's don't fit together perfectly and always leak at the collector. The mechanic also told me that there are two holes drilled into the sides of the silencers to allow water to escape which is why I can see steam coming out from around there. The latter comment is plausible to me as the steam is coming from the same place on each silencer. The former I believe to be bullshit as I know collectors rot out on these bikes.

Any advice would be appreciated, I've not been nasty and the comment I've made is that I don't think a leak free exhaust system is an unreasonable request on a bike with a 30 day warranty, which he agreed with. I'm not after getting my old bike back, I actually like this bike and it fits my needs. Obviously if he doesn't cooperate I'm entitled to a refund within 14 days.

Ta,

Harry.
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3 Honda NC50's(Sold)-->'72 Puch Maxi S (Sold, want it back!)--> '90 Yamaha RXS 100 (Stolen)--> '87 Honda Cub 90(Sold) --> '95 Kawasaki Eliminator (Sold) --> '98 Bandit 600 (Sold) -->'07 SV650S (Current)

[Moo.]

You can get a new collector for about £100 for these, although I have a 4 into 1 on mine as the originals eventually rot out. Is the current collector in decent condition? Or is it all rusty?

Is the steam just coming from the joins between the pipes, or just the water hole? I think the part about them never fitting together is just BS, they wont be made with any more/less tolerance than other bikes.

If you got the bike for a decent price and are planning to keep it a few years, i'd just buy a new stainless one as it will probably do better in the long run. If you paid a pretty penny for the bike, i'd try and get them to fix it, as you mentioned the issue before buying, on the premise that it would be fixed..

By the way, worth noting that the centre stands often fail on these, they snap and are like rocking horse poo to find again!

Mines snapped, been re-welded and snapped again. Been keeping an eye out for another...
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A2 Passed 18/6/10

[hazza]

My feeble 5'5" frame hasn't managed to life it on to the centre stand yet It's been a fair few years since I've had a bike with one and I'm almost certain it's poor technique. Anywho, the bike has the centre stand 'refurbished' according to a scribble in the service book a few months back.

Not sure on the water hole thing, if they do exist they are right where the collector joins the silencer but didn't get chance to check as I was on my way to work. The collector looks shiny enough but on closer inspection I can see that where the manifold joins to it is full of exhaust putty that is rattling it's way out.

I paid top whack (straight swap for my much younger SV) for it as it looked to be in good nick, had history and a full set of expensive luggage. It also benefitted me as I need transport for work and I didn't have to go through the hassle of selling mine and then searching for another.
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3 Honda NC50's(Sold)-->'72 Puch Maxi S (Sold, want it back!)--> '90 Yamaha RXS 100 (Stolen)--> '87 Honda Cub 90(Sold) --> '95 Kawasaki Eliminator (Sold) --> '98 Bandit 600 (Sold) -->'07 SV650S (Current)

[P.addy]

Should have sold the SV private and bought 2 XJs.... and a new exhaust for each.

Just head back, say its of no use to you in this state, get SV back, done.

[Moo.]

I was gunna say, mine was cheap as chips (£600 ish). It had 65k odd miles, but they're known to go round the clocks.

There's a handle on the left hand side of the bike under the seat, grab onto that, foot on the centre stand, then just stand up. Although it is a heavy beast! (Invest in some engine bars!)

Btw, blue spot brakes from fazers/xjr1300 etc.. are a straight swap for the front brakes. Improve them massively!

Check the oil cooler pipes at the front of the engine aren't rusty and that the oil cooler banjo bolts aren't leaking. These are common weak points. Pipes rust and leak, and the banjo bolts will crack the cooler if you fart on them.
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A2 Passed 18/6/10

[Iain.]

Evidence time. You need to grab pictures showing the blowing exhaust, and the current mileage of the bike. Head to another local dealer, and explain the problems with the bike, ask if they'd be able to take a look and offer a written quotation for repair of whatever is wrong with it.

https://www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/cgi-bin/glos/con1item.cgi?file=*adv1002-1011.txt

Worth reading that.

I wouldn't rack up loads of miles on it till this is resolved.[/quote]

[hazza]

Most useful Iain, thank you.
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3 Honda NC50's(Sold)-->'72 Puch Maxi S (Sold, want it back!)--> '90 Yamaha RXS 100 (Stolen)--> '87 Honda Cub 90(Sold) --> '95 Kawasaki Eliminator (Sold) --> '98 Bandit 600 (Sold) -->'07 SV650S (Current)

[c_dug]

You'll end up replacing it with stainless sooner or later anyway, but it was sold as good condition so worth chasing the dealer for it for sure. Given the issues I've had with my Delkevic's (thanks Pete.) leaking at the collector I do sort of see their point about difficulty with alignment, but in the end that isn't for you to worry about, that's why you buy from a dealer after all!

Blue spot comment above is spot on, excuse the almost pun, I more or less transplanted the entire set up from a TDM and they're way better than the suspension can handle (next on my to do list!).

Enjoy the centre stand while you can
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I am a bellend, I am a man of constant sorrow, I am a gummy bear, I am a rock.

[hazza]

Yep, I paid top whack for the dealer services and come back of there were any issues. The way I see it the bike should be as it was described. He can't palm me off with 'age related' nonsense. Age related faults are things like scratches to paint, the small amount of wear on the seat and the peeling paint on the corner of the rocker, NOT a faulty exhaust system.

Blue spots are already on my radar. I'm told I'll need a Fazer MS too so that it all works correctly?
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3 Honda NC50's(Sold)-->'72 Puch Maxi S (Sold, want it back!)--> '90 Yamaha RXS 100 (Stolen)--> '87 Honda Cub 90(Sold) --> '95 Kawasaki Eliminator (Sold) --> '98 Bandit 600 (Sold) -->'07 SV650S (Current)

[hazza]

Oh also, if the parts aren't faulty/corroded surely there is no need to assemble with exhaust putty?
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3 Honda NC50's(Sold)-->'72 Puch Maxi S (Sold, want it back!)--> '90 Yamaha RXS 100 (Stolen)--> '87 Honda Cub 90(Sold) --> '95 Kawasaki Eliminator (Sold) --> '98 Bandit 600 (Sold) -->'07 SV650S (Current)

[c_dug]

I went for one off the TDM but yes allegedly the ratio with the standard master cylinder is wrong. IIRC it gives too long a lever travel to be useful. Can't actually confirm or deny because I never tried with the standard master.

A master from any bike that comes with blue spots as standard should be fine, worth having a decent look for different models, sometimes there can be a huge gulf in prices for what are essentially identical items, for example from a TDM might be £40 whereas from an R1 might be £80.
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I am a bellend, I am a man of constant sorrow, I am a gummy bear, I am a rock.

[Rogerborg]

It's an 11 year old vehicle, and a consumable part that you knew was hooky on that bike. You could have bargained for a replacement, but didn't.

Did you really expect that they'd do anything but bodge it just enough to get rid of the bike?

They bargain for a living, so how about meeting them half way - if you find the part, will they fit it, or vice versa?
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Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike

[Moo.]

[kramdra]

Pics of the offending pipe? it sounds like there is nothing wrong with it other than they were too cheap to buy a seal and bodged with putty.

Any marks on exhaust? If bent, and mine certainly is a bit, fitting becomes far more difficult.

[N cee thirty]

[hazza]

I'll take a pic of the exhaust when I'm on my break and post it up. It looks in good nick, hopefully the issue is that they couldn't be arsed to spend the 30 quid on graphite gaskets and just tried to 'fix' old knackered ones with putty.

[Rogerborg]

[N cee thirty]

[c_dug]

Is it DK by any chance?

Don't they have a rep for this sort of thing.
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I am a bellend, I am a man of constant sorrow, I am a gummy bear, I am a rock.

[hazza]

Not playing the name and shame game until I know the outcome as that would be unfair but it definitely isn't DK!
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3 Honda NC50's(Sold)-->'72 Puch Maxi S (Sold, want it back!)--> '90 Yamaha RXS 100 (Stolen)--> '87 Honda Cub 90(Sold) --> '95 Kawasaki Eliminator (Sold) --> '98 Bandit 600 (Sold) -->'07 SV650S (Current)

[kramdra]

No pics? Disapoint.

[hazza]

Sorry, didn't get chance to take photos yesterday but here are some that hopefully help you out.

https://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff501/harrybarfield/B8BDB7D1-2A8F-45DF-9F74-1F5C9E771B75.jpg

https://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff501/harrybarfield/301733A9-08A8-49AC-A955-357E45FAEC2E.jpg

https://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff501/harrybarfield/F9B7D677-92C4-40F8-91ED-28467AE977E1.jpg

The collector to header looks free from corrosion, I've obviously not had them off to see the internal condition for fear of being told its my fault by the dealer.
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3 Honda NC50's(Sold)-->'72 Puch Maxi S (Sold, want it back!)--> '90 Yamaha RXS 100 (Stolen)--> '87 Honda Cub 90(Sold) --> '95 Kawasaki Eliminator (Sold) --> '98 Bandit 600 (Sold) -->'07 SV650S (Current)

[Kris]

How about a compromise?

You buy the new SS system and they fit it gratis?
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NSR125RR - ZXR750H1 - ZX9R E1 - GSF600S - GSF600SK3 - VFR400-NC30 - SV1000N - ST1100-R - CBR900RR-R - GSF1200SK5 - GSF600SK1 - VFR1200FA - GSXR1000K2 - ZZR1400 D8F
www.prisonplanet.com

[hazza]

That doesn't really seem like a fair compromise when I was told when viewing that the system was in good condition, I flagged the issue up on the test ride and was promised a fix, the advert states the complete system is in good condition and I have a parts and labour warranty.

Then again it involves me putting my hand in my pocket so I'm not going to think thats the best course of action!
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3 Honda NC50's(Sold)-->'72 Puch Maxi S (Sold, want it back!)--> '90 Yamaha RXS 100 (Stolen)--> '87 Honda Cub 90(Sold) --> '95 Kawasaki Eliminator (Sold) --> '98 Bandit 600 (Sold) -->'07 SV650S (Current)

[Rogerborg]