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| smegballs |
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smegballs
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 Posted: 07:10 - 14 May 2015  Post subject: Oomin Rites Repealment |
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So everyones crying on facebook as if the minute the act is repealed, there will be widespread slavery and torture on the go all across the uk.
Regardless that slavery and torture are already illegal under various laws anyway 
So, what effect (if any) is it likely to have? I was under the impression when we need to torture someone we just fly them off to see our mates in saudi/egypt/etc anyway....
I'm a bit sceptical of the concept of human rights as a protection tbh. Without teeth to back the rights up, I don't see how a piece of paper signed somewhere is any protection when the police/army comes knocking, as many victims of oppression/genocide worldwide could attest. |
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| wr6133 |
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wr6133
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| wr6133 |
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wr6133
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| Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg
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| Posted: 09:37 - 14 May 2015 Post subject: |
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| wr6133 wrote: | | mpd72 wrote: | I'm not too bothered about the "snoopers" charter really |
Then you are an idiot. |
Well argued, point very cogently put.
On topic, the ECHR is already so full of national security / public safety / health or morals loopholes that it's essentially an exercise in voluntary cherry picking anyway.
There's no protection against self incrimination, for example. See https://hudoc.echr.coe.int/sites/eng/pages/search.aspx?i=001-81359
Yes, I would rather trust Westminster than Brussels. For one thing, I can actually vote or against the parasites in Westminster that create legislation. I have no such say over Brussels. If you think otherwise, I'd encourage you to have a look into how EU dictats are actually created, and by whom.
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| wr6133 |
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wr6133
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| tbourner |
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tbourner
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| Ste |
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Ste
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| Posted: 11:12 - 14 May 2015 Post subject: |
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Oh noes, snoopers charter, however will people get around that? 
Pretty damn easily.  |
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| smegballs |
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smegballs
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| Ste |
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Ste
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| Lord Percy |
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Lord Percy
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| Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg
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Posted: 14:14 - 14 May 2015  Post subject: |
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| Lord Percy wrote: | I guess the main question, which I haven't seen answered yet, is what's actually so bad about the current EU human rights act as it is? |
Go and read it. There are more exceptions in it than rights. Beatnicks and pinkos should be raging that it's inadequate much more than conservatives are unhappy with it for being too protective.
Then there's Strasbourg's random interpretation of it. They give rights that aren't mentioned or remotely contemplated, like prisoner votes, while taking a steaming dump on Article 6, fair trial and presumption of innocence.
It's a vague, badly worded mess that's upheld in an ad hoc, unpredictable manner. The only people it really benefits are lawyers. Do not want.
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| ScaredyCat |
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ScaredyCat
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Posted: 14:59 - 14 May 2015  Post subject: |
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| Lord Percy wrote: | At first I thought nothing of it. I figured it was just the UK starting to abandon the EU, hence writing our own human rights thing.
But, with the mention of snooper's charters etc, it does make me think again for a moment. Of course the usual human rights won't be altered, but it's true they might sneak some stuff through which gives them more power over little things that don't seem particularly important until they decide to get heavy on people.
On the same token, what's to say the new UK bill of rights isn't purely for the better of the nation?
I guess the main question, which I haven't seen answered yet, is what's actually so bad about the current EU human rights act as it is? |
Ok, just to make sure you're aware
The Human Rights Act (HRA) is not European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR).
The Human Rights act is not a European thing foisted on us. It's a UK thing. It does, however, put into UK law things that are in the ECHR. In other words we made our own laws to put the ECHR into practice in the UK and preserve those freedoms.
WTF Why? Simple so that you don't have to pay a shit-tonne of cash to have your case heard. You can have it heard in the UK, rather than having to pay for it to be heard in Strasbourg. An important point, you should be able to get justice even if you don't have a lot of money.
The Conservative party have already had previous attempts at mass data collection shot down by EU courts because the ECHR/HRA has:
"Respect for your private and family life, home and correspondence"
And the EU courts decided that capturing everyone's data breached the ECHR (and and because we have HRA that would be breached too)
Also worth noting that when the conservatives asked Scotland, Wales and NI if they thought the snooper's charter would be good, they were told to fuck off.
What the conservatives want to to is get rid of the HRA because it's incompatible with their end game. However to do this they would need to leave the Council of Europe and drop the ECHR. On a global scale this puts the UK on an equal footing with other dictatorships.
None of this would be too bad if we could rely on due process to protect people.
The conservative party want you to be guilty "if ministers reasonably believe" this to be the case. - So the Home Secretary gets to make judgements rather than a criminal justice system.
Think of a "Section 59" but on a bigger scale and without the first warning part.
The conservatives want to implement Terrorism Investigation and Prevention Measures (TPIMS) which remove the right to freedom of expression and movement from individuals - but they want to make the decision, they don't want some court (UK or not) stopping them from doing what they want.
The bad thing about ECHR and HRA is that we have to abide by them and government can't do what it wants (in Human rights terms). Which, as it happens, is a good thing if you're not Dave or Teresa.
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| wr6133 |
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wr6133
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| wr6133 |
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wr6133
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| grr666 |
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grr666
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| Posted: 17:10 - 14 May 2015 Post subject: |
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Inb4 baww baww police state.
Inb4 baww baww ethnic cleansing.
Inb4 baww baww neo nazi party.
Fuck it,
Inb4 baww baww black sheep too.
Not inb4 massive unnecessary over reaction though.
That began the the moment the ELECTED government gained an un beatable majority.
Nothing to hide here either, to hear all this knee jerk reaction from the left leaning, any one would think we
had been put under curfew and had armed soldiers roaming the streets dragging people out of
their homes and executing them in front of their families for crimes against the state.
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| tbourner |
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tbourner
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| wr6133 |
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wr6133
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| Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg
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| oldpink |
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oldpink
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| Posted: 20:45 - 14 May 2015 Post subject: |
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human rights are a myth
if the powers that be want you silenced or even taken out it will happen
esp if the piss off the good Ol US of A
personally I won't travel to the states though I would love to as there is a good chance I will be arrested and detained
and possibly jailed for a long time
though I have never committed a crime or even set foot on US soil
I'm more afraid of the USA than any other so called threat to the UK
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| Posted: 20:49 - 14 May 2015 Post subject: |
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| wr6133 wrote: |
The lack of further attacks and the number of trials for planned ones would indicate the mechanisms in place are adequate
Well if they were as intelligent as you we would be fucked. |
As you know f4vk all about how many attacks have been stopped on the UK, I'll rely on MI5 rather than some know it all on t'Internet, if it's alright by you! 
Edit, actually, as there's been no bomb atrack for a few years, yeah you're right. We don't need no security service. Tell the government that because some bloke on the Internet with a tin foil hat on, doesn't want the intelligence services having a chance to see he watches midget porn, that there's no need to defend against terrorists who have already killed countless people in a bomb attack. I'm sure Al Quaida and there mates will leave us alone as they have lately. (Nothing to do with attacks being stopped before the public see it, of course).
So long as nobody knows about your midget porn, who cares about national security eh "midget porn lover"?
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oldpink
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| Posted: 21:24 - 14 May 2015 Post subject: |
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why are we a target at all
simple answer we blindly followed the US into wars built on lies to suit there own ends (Oil)
if you attack a country or religion do you think they will sit back and accept it 
stop trying to be a world power when we are not
stay out of shit we have no part of, and stop killing others because our political class say we should
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| wr6133 |
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wr6133
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| Posted: 21:34 - 14 May 2015 Post subject: |
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| mpd72 wrote: | | wr6133 wrote: |
The lack of further attacks and the number of trials for planned ones would indicate the mechanisms in place are adequate
Well if they were as intelligent as you we would be fucked. |
As you know f4vk all about how many attacks have been stopped on the UK, I'll rely on MI5 rather than some know it all on t'Internet, if it's alright by you!
Edit, actually, as there's been no bomb atrack for a few years, yeah you're right. We don't need no security service. Tell the government that because some bloke on the Internet with a tin foil hat on, doesn't want the intelligence services having a chance to see he watches midget porn, that there's no need to defend against terrorists who have already killed countless people in a bomb attack. I'm sure Al Quaida and there mates will leave us alone as they have lately. (Nothing to do with attacks being stopped before the public see it, of course).
So long as nobody knows about your midget porn, who cares about national security eh "midget porn lover"? |
So the lack of attacks and trials for plotters as I said mean current measures are fine. If attacks are being stopped now then it means the shit we have right now works. Your argument is retarded..... are you retarded, or just a closet Nazi waiting to wear his brown shirt and strut about drilling young boys?
| Rogerborg wrote: | How many dead kittens would it take to convince you that the excitables have discovered ROT13? |
vg jbhyq gnxr 300000000000000000000000 xvggra urnqf ba cvxrf orvat cnenqrq guebhtu Noreqner |
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 10 years, 276 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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