First manual bike/new rider issues

[MaximusHeisen...]

Hi all, new here.

Been riding automatics for quite some time, just got my first manual bike which is a CBR 125 and having real issues, seem to panic on it.

The main issue is downshifting and coming to a stop, I can upshift fine.

I tried going 50mph the other day, I was in 5th, I pulled in the clutch downshifted to 4th, let the clutch out, pulled the clutch in went to 3rd, let clutch out etc until I got into 2nd or 1st and I think I revved it too much in the RPM's and I think the back wheel locked up and I skidded but managed to keep control of it but it was scary.

Does engine braking damage the engine? The last thing I wanna do is blow it up or mess up my transmission.

I've only ridden it twice, I feel nervous getting on it at the moment.

I'd like to ask though.

If I'm coming off an A road at 60-70mph and I'm in 6th, and theres a roundabout just after exiting the A road, what would your sequence be? Keep pulling in and releasing the clutch and downshifting to 2nd or 1st and braking? Or would you just brake and slow right down and pull in the clutch and kick it all the way into 2nd or 1st when about to stop?

And if your in 3rd or 4th and theres a red light ahead, I presume it's best to just brake, pull in the clutch and then kick it all the way to 1st?

I just want to know the best way or procedure of coming to a stop and downshifting when say going 30-40mph and when going 60mph-70mph etc and just some general advice.

I'm guessing on the CBR, it's good to change gears at about 5000-6000rpm?

Cheers.

[Andy_Pagin]

Most beginners downshift at too higher speed, especially 2nd to 1st. First gear on a 125 is a very low gear and should only be selected when you're almost at a stop.

Will engine braking damage the engine? No, so long as you don't do something loonie like shift from 5th to 1st at 50mph. Personally I do almost all my decelleration with downshifts and engine braking, both with cars and bikes. Don't worry it'll come together with practice.
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[MaximusHeisen...]

Thanks for the reply, well I usually am quite good and not shifting to 1st until I am more or less stopped.

When I panicked the other day and was shifting down to individually from 5th to 1st I may have actually kicked it down to 1st at about 15-20 but it was just a panic moment.

My issues are the sequence and what is best to do, if I was in going 50mph and in 5th and the speed limit changes to 30mph, would it be best to pull in the clutch and kick down 2 gears into 3rd? Or is it best to clutch in then down to 4th, clutch out, then clutch in again then down to 3rd and clutch out?

Also, is it essential to blip the throttle when downshifting?

[delsol]

It's tempting to use all the gears, at 50mph 4th gear would be more appropriate and you will have a degree of engine braking by just coming off the throttle and less down changing to think about until you get more used to the manual changes.

Later you might think about down changing a couple of steps before letting the clutch out and increasing the engine braking and reducing the slow down time.

I don't know what the top speed of your cbr 125 is but would reserve 5th gear for speeds closer to the higher limits.

[MaximusHeisen...]

Thanks, I think the top speed is about 70mph, so I thought I would need to be in 5th at about 50mph and 6th at 60mph and above? But I wouldn't know as I haven't really done those speeds.

[NJD]

[robertw95]

When coming to a stop it is best to kick down each gear separately. Pulling the clutch in and braking greatly increases chances of locking the back wheel and if you kicking down 3 gears at a time for example and traffic light changed to green your left trying to select correct gear to get moving again or if something happens and you need to accelerate for whatever reason its harder to do so
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[MaximusHeisen...]

Thanks for all the advice so far.

Robert, are you saying I shouldn't brake?

[Snop Doog]

I ride a CBF125. When I first starting riding, I used to have the same problems. I overcame the problem by simply never downshifting into first unless I have completely stopped. When coming to a stop you can do whatever you like, sometimes I like to put it into neutral and coast to a stop (with braking of course), other times I like to rev match down to second then put it in neutral when I have stopped.

Watch some tutorials on YouTube on how to rev match, it makes downshifting on a 125 (or at least the CBF125) so much more pleasant, the effects of engine braking aren't as intense and slowing down is just so smooth.

[TheArchitect]

I was in a similar situation as you a year ago in that I went from 2 years on a scooter to DAS having never ridden a geared bike.

All I have to say is just relax and practice lots. I was bricking it when I got on a geared 125 for the first time. It just comes down to confidence (not too much) and repetition. The more you do it the more natural it'll become. The key to getting the hand/feet coordination is to not over think it.

Also, every bike is different, so you have to get used to the rev ranges of all the gears on your bike and then select the appropriate gear as required.
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[KnuckleShot]

I second practising the local routes when its quiet, I did this when I first started and helped me gain confidence (don't get too confident)

[Rogerborg]

When I got my first 125, I went straight to the local industrial estate and invested a couple of hours in doing exactly what I'd done on my CBT: low speed, round and round, clutch slipping, stop and go, up and down 1st, 2nd, 3rd.

Boring, yes.

Useful, definitely.
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[Teflon-Mike]

Big newbie error given a gear-box is over using it... riding on the gears not the throttle.

Relax; every up-shift you DON'T make is a down-shift you wont have to make.. and two potential fuck-ups avoided.. so DONT change gear unless you have to... use the throttle to change speed and only up-shift when you have no more revs to use.

Down shifts is where most struggle, and yes, it can break the engine, if you totally fuck it up... on the race track, it's actually more common to 'blow' an engine from crashing down than it is from over revving it, too far into the red, or missing a gear.

If you are traveling at 50mph, in 5th gear, pulling perhaps 8,000 rpm, banging straight down a gear, the lower gear ratio of 4th, would probably give something like 40mph at 8,000 revs.. doing 50mph road speed, one of two things will happen, either the back wheel will drive the engine up to, what, 10,000rpm, OR the engine will tuyrn the back wheel 10mph slower than you are going, and you have an effective 'skid'. If you are going fast enough then, and the difference in gearing is high enough, 'crashing down' can drive the engine's crank revs WAY above the red-line marking the 'safe-speed' the crank can spin up to, under the motor's own power, and driven by momentum, it can put even more strain on bits of engine than you ever will accelerating, even reving the knackers off the thing, where normally, it'll run out of revs of its own accord, or an ignition rev-limiter, long before it'll do itself harm.

But, as I think you have discovered, more likely outcome on a road bike , particularly a lightweight, is that the wheel will just turn slower than road beneath you...

However... don't change up unnecesserily, don't have to change down unnecesserily.. and you can avoid the problem.

When you DO have to change down.. its changing up in reverse, and as said, if you use the throttle rather than the gears, when you ARE traveling at higher speed, you should be at higher revs, and you can get 'engine braking' from closing the throttle; and the revs will start to fall as you slow, and there will be no issue of the wheel-speed changing in relation to road-speed... WHEN the road speed has fallen back to where you changed up, and the revs are what you had after that up change... THEN you can change down... and the revs will be driven back up to whatever 'safe' revs the engine was making before you made that 'up' change, so you wont over rev the engine, and you are unlikely to get a mini-skid.. might not be very smooth.. but with practice that will come.

Little bit of generic advice.. DON'T RUSH.. rushing be fast way to hurt on two wheels... applies to many many things, not just how fast you ride... but significantly in this instance.. don't rush to get into a higher gear, don't rush to get back down to a lower one, and don't rush the changes themselves. aim for 'slow & smooth' and speed will follow. Its a more haste less speed thing in action.

So in short.

1/ Use the throttle more, use the gears less.
2/ Push the up-changes higher up the rev-range
3/ Bring the down changes further down the rev-range.
4. DONT RUSH
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[MaximusHeisen...]

Thanks for all the advice.

Regarding the last post, I will try that, I have definitely done the engine brake thing too hard a few times and have also skidded a couple of times.

If I was in 3rd and coming up to the roundabout, would it be a good idea to just use the brakes and pull the clutch in to slow down and kick it all the way down into 1st? instead of going down to 2nd then 1st, but thinking about it 1st might not be enough for me to pull away if theres no cars coming.

I really want to get the hang of this, I want to visit a friend within the next week but I will have to go on an A road for 20 mins at 70mph and being in 6th gear doing that speed terrifies me right now to be honest.

I've always done my CBT's on scooters, my last one I rode an automatic 125cc so that's why I have no experience whatsoever of a manual bike.

I found my Honda Innova 125 so much easier to ride, given that it only had 4 gears and an automatic clutch, I still have that bike as it's up for sale.

[Rogerborg]