Having trouble learning mechanical

Trackr · Derestricted Danger Joined: 18 Jun 2015 Karma :

So, I'm trying to get my license and my intention is to buy a 250-400cc automatic motorcycle, but the only one I'm allowed to learn on is a 250 mechanical.

I've been riding road bikes (bicycle) for years, so getting a grip on a 125 automatic took about 5 minutes.. but for the life of me I can't seem to grasp the mechanical one (pun intended).

My main issue is that to achieve momentum, you have to play a very precise game with the clutch and gas. You have to very slowly let go of the clutch until the bike just barely starts to move, then quickly apply gas to a point where the engine is between 2,500 and 3,000 RPMs, and keep it that way steady.

What I've learned is that if you let go of the clutch too fast - the bike stalls. If you don't give the bike enough gas with the clutch in proper place, the bike stalls. It feels like I'm playing operation!

Even when I get the clutch into the perfect position and rev the engine just right, it still vibrates in a fashion that feels very much like it's about to stall, though it doesn't.

So, in the end, I'm able to perform well on the obstacle course, but I just don't feel like I have a good understanding of what I'm supposed to do and it ends up feeling like trying to crack a safe while riding a bicycle.

All this when I have no intention of purchasing a mechanical bike, so I feel extremely out of sorts. Doesn't help that my teacher isn't that great and he's the 7th teacher I've found and the best of all of them.. and it's costing me $25 for a 40-minute lesson.

Does anyone have any assuring words?
I just wanted to get this license so I can take my girl on long trips. It's what we've always wanted to do. Neutral

Thanks!

Sload · World Chat Champion Joined: 28 Aug 2011 Karma :

Practice makes perfect. All you are doing is controlling the slip on the transmission between the gearbox and the engine.
That is why if you are idling and you pop the clutch out fast it will stall but if you are reving its tits off it will wheelie you off.

Really it is just practice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W22SwZQH1JU
____________________
Honda Varadero >> Triumph Speed Four >> Honda CBR1100xx

Trackr · Derestricted Danger Joined: 18 Jun 2015 Karma :

andyscooter · World Chat Champion Joined: 30 May 2009 Karma :

im guessing you are not in the uk

so not sure of laws where you are

what exactly is the person teaching the lessons telling you as clutch control is number one

its the first thing you get taught on a cbt over here
____________________
gilera runner vxr200 (chavped)
if its spelt wrong its my fat fingers and daft auto correct on my tablet

Rogerborg · nimbA Joined: 26 Oct 2010 Karma :

<TefSperg>
Tie a piece of string to a house key and spin it around. That's a bike engine. Put your face in front of the key to simulate letting out the clutch suddenly. The key has very little momentum and it stops (the engine stalls).

Now tie that piece of string to a house brick and spin it at the same speed. That's a car engine. Feel all that extra energy that you need to put in to get it up to speed? Now put your face in front of the brick. See the difference?
</TefSperg>

You don't need to understand the laws of physics, just stop trying to pick a fight with them. Rev the engine first, then let the clutch out gradually. Just do it, it's not hard.

Invest half an hour in riding slowly, stop and start, just by slipping the clutch with the throttle held in a constant position. There, you've learned it.
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike

Trackr · Derestricted Danger Joined: 18 Jun 2015 Karma :

DrSnoosnoo · World Chat Champion Joined: 28 Mar 2012 Karma :

Rogerborg · nimbA Joined: 26 Oct 2010 Karma :

James83 · Crazy Courier Joined: 10 Apr 2013 Karma :

My guess here is that they are trying to teach you about finding the bite point of the clutch, rather than to actually get rolling like that.

Heres how moving off works when you have the hang of it - Right hand brings the revs up, while the left hand releases the clutch to the bite point. Just as the clutch bites, the revs hit the right number, you gently (Or not so gently depending how much of an orangutan you are) let the clutch the rest of the way out.

Heres how that works when you don't have the hang of it - your right hand rolls on and the bikes revs shoot up to the top third of the range and sit there. Your left hand, without the experienced feel for the bite point, slowly start letting the clutch out from fully closed. You sit there for 5-20 seconds with the engine thrashing while you find the clutch bite point, then you pull away.

To avoid sitting there racing the engine and feeling silly, what you can do is let the clutch out to the bite point first. This is the point where the bike feels like its trying to move, but doesn't actually go anywhere. If you do it right, you can still bring the revs up. Once you found it, THEN bring the revs up, THEN let the clutch out gently to move off. I suspect that this is what your instructors are trying to teach you. If its not, then its a good way to learn how to find that bite point, so give it a try.

Once you can do it when concentrating on it, it won't be long until you can do it without even thinking about it.
____________________
Jonathan A wrote: tart.

Trackr · Derestricted Danger Joined: 18 Jun 2015 Karma :

mentalboy · World Chat Champion Joined: 05 May 2012 Karma :

Sload · World Chat Champion Joined: 28 Aug 2011 Karma :

You are really making a meal out of this fella.

You can pull off one of two ways really. For educational purposes, sit on the bike with both feet down whilst it idles. Pull in the clutch then select first gear. Put your foot down again and do not apply any throttle. Now very slowly let your clutch out. Once you feel it start to pull a little, the revs will drop slowly, hold this position on the lever. The bike will gradually start to move so just allow your feet to slip or lightly walk it and maintain your balance.
That is your clutch bite point. You can let it out a tiny bit more and you will gain momentum a little more quickly. Once you are rolling a bit better, gradually let your clutch lever out very slowly until it is fully engaged, you should now be rolling along quite nicely with your clutch lever all the way out and with no gas applied. If you stalled whilst doing this your were too fast / jerky on the clutch lever. Try this until you are comfortable and can do it without stalling.

Once you are happy with this do it again but use the throttle as well now. Follow the same steps as above, but when you pull the clutch in, turn your throttle till you are at about 3k rpm. Lock your wrist and hold it there and now do the above. Again find your bite point and gradually let out your clutch. You will feel the difference straight away and you will also notice that by the time your clutch is out you will be travelling a bit quicker. Practice this with the aim of getting faster and smoother. Once you have the hang of this, the rest will start to come naturally.

And you are training and trying to learn, empty your cup and dont complain about fuel use and noise, you can worry about that when you have sussed it out.
____________________
Honda Varadero >> Triumph Speed Four >> Honda CBR1100xx

FuzzyBallz · Nova Slayer Joined: 29 May 2015 Karma :

Have you not considered buying a top notch road bicycle? Probably the best option Thumbs Up

Nobby the Bastard · Harley Gaydar Joined: 16 Aug 2013 Karma :

FuzzyBallz · Nova Slayer Joined: 29 May 2015 Karma :

Nobby the Bastard · Harley Gaydar Joined: 16 Aug 2013 Karma :

FuzzyBallz · Nova Slayer Joined: 29 May 2015 Karma :

Rogerborg · nimbA Joined: 26 Oct 2010 Karma :

Nobby the Bastard · Harley Gaydar Joined: 16 Aug 2013 Karma :

FuzzyBallz · Nova Slayer Joined: 29 May 2015 Karma :

With regard to what Rogerborg said, I was still revving the Shiver 750 even on my mod 2 more than I needed to, to take off, as long as you take off smoothly the RPM doesn't matter

Rogerborg · nimbA Joined: 26 Oct 2010 Karma :

To clarify the clarification, "absolutely necessary" still means "more than idle".

If in doubt, err on the side of revs.
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike

pompousporcup... · World Chat Champion Joined: 15 Apr 2015 Karma :

It is tricky, at first. You simply need time to adjust to it.

My experience of training was nearer the deep end.. and tbf, it should be. Once on the road there is little time to kcuf about babying the clutch with cars all around getting more annoyed at the noob who can't get it going quickly enough. (unless you're a tattooed beefcake that no one in their right might is going to mess with)

Its also worth remember that most, if not all, clutches are going to feel different. One clutch might have the 1mm feel. Others you might need to let the entire level out before anything happens.

Can you try a different bike at your training school?