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Have I just taken a CBT with a full license :|

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SeanPM
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PostPosted: 21:56 - 07 Jul 2015    Post subject: Have I just taken a CBT with a full license :| Reply with quote
Hey biking folks.

I'm a bit befuddled and thought I'd turn to the forums for help.

I took a CBT in 2009 and a year or so later got my full UK drivers license (car, not motorcycle). I sold my little 125 and thought I would never bike again.

Turns out I was wrong and just recently decided I needed another 125 (with the dream of one day progressing to something bigger). I called up the DVLA and asked if I needed to do another CBT. They said yes.

I called up the local CBT centre and asked if I needed to do another CBT. They said yes.

So I did another CBT.

But I'm looking on the back of my license and it has this (image attached) [img]

Does the A mean I have taken the CBT for no reason and if so, shouldn't I be entitled to refund for bad advice from both the CBT centre and the DVLA (which should I pursue)?

Cheers for any advice,

Sean
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Northern Monkey
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PostPosted: 21:59 - 07 Jul 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
This comes up every few weeks or so. You can drive a trike.
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SeanPM
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PostPosted: 22:05 - 07 Jul 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
Northern Monkey wrote:
This comes up every few weeks or so. You can drive a trike.


Haha, thanks. They could make that a bit more apparent! In a way, I'm gutted I don't have a magical pass to my super bike, but in another, I'm relieved I haven't just blown £105.

A related question: when I'm doing insurance quotes, it asks me what license I hold. They don't seem bothered about the fact that I have a full drivers license and have been navigating the roads without incident for 5 years, or that I rode my 125 for a couple of years (because if you haven't ridden in the past 12 months, it is not relevant).

What license do I have? A provisional or a full moped?

I'm now in my mid 30s and have a full license and the quotes are coming up as more than when I was in my 20s and didn't know how to navigate a roundabout! Sad
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Albigularis
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PostPosted: 22:46 - 07 Jul 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
Provisional.

Full moped is A1, which is basically a CBT without L plates and motorway use.

Use the DVLA online check and you'll see what you have - https://www.gov.uk/view-driving-licence
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SeanPM
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PostPosted: 23:13 - 07 Jul 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
Albigularis wrote:
Provisional.

Full moped is A1, which is basically a CBT without L plates and motorway use.

Use the DVLA online check and you'll see what you have - https://www.gov.uk/view-driving-licence


Thanks, I just tried it and this brings me back to my first question. It says, verbatim:

Category : A
Start date: 19 Jan 2013
End date: 23 Jun 2053
Description

You can drive a motorcycle of a power exceeding 35kW or with a power to weight ratio exceeding 0.2kW per kg, or A motorcycle of a power not exceeding 35kW with a power to weight ratio not exceeding 0.2kW per kg and derived from a vehicle of more than double its power. A motor tricycle with a power exceeding 15kW

It says it, right there. In black and white. You can drive a motorcycle of a power exceeding 35kW. And then under 'You can provisionally drive' (note the different date)

Category : A
Start date: 6 Dec 2008
End date: 23 Jun 2053
Description

You can drive a motorcycle of a power exceeding 35kW or with a power to weight ratio exceeding 0.2kW per kg, or A motorcycle of a power not exceeding 35kW with a power to weight ratio not exceeding 0.2kW per kg and derived from a vehicle of more than double its power. A motor tricycle with a power exceeding 15kW

This is so confusing! Sad
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SeanPM
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PostPosted: 23:43 - 07 Jul 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
There is no possible way I can have a full motorcycle license. Is this a cock up on the DVLA's part? It says on the website you provided that I have a full 'A' license. No restrictions. Just an 'A'. Am I misreading it??
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pinkyfloyd
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PostPosted: 23:53 - 07 Jul 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
SeanPM wrote:
There is no possible way I can have a full motorcycle license. Is this a cock up on the DVLA's part? It says on the website you provided that I have a full 'A' license. No restrictions. Just an 'A'. Am I misreading it??


You are misreading it. In 2013 when the third directive was introdiced the DVSA changed the trike entitlement from motorcycle to car. Although the trike is still classified as a motorcycle you can now ride them under a full car licence. The aim was to prevent people turning up on a trike to gain a full A bike licence.

Since you have not done a motorcycle test you do not have a motorcycle licence. Your car licence entitles you to ride a motorcycle under a provisional basis only. This will include a CBT because they only last 2 years. It also means, as you are over 24, you are entitled to ride any size machine with L plates provided you are in visual and radio contact by a DVSA assessed DAS instructor.
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SeanPM
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PostPosted: 00:13 - 08 Jul 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
pinkyfloyd wrote:
SeanPM wrote:
There is no possible way I can have a full motorcycle license. Is this a cock up on the DVLA's part? It says on the website you provided that I have a full 'A' license. No restrictions. Just an 'A'. Am I misreading it??


You are misreading it. In 2013 when the third directive was introdiced the DVSA changed the trike entitlement from motorcycle to car. Although the trike is still classified as a motorcycle you can now ride them under a full car licence. The aim was to prevent people turning up on a trike to gain a full A bike licence.

Since you have not done a motorcycle test you do not have a motorcycle licence. Your car licence entitles you to ride a motorcycle under a provisional basis only. This will include a CBT because they only last 2 years. It also means, as you are over 24, you are entitled to ride any size machine with L plates provided you are in visual and radio contact by a DVSA assessed DAS instructor.


Thanks for the clarification. And I don't believe that I am entitled to a motorcycle license, nor would I ride a motorbike without taking a test. But I am not misreading anything. I am reading exactly what it says, and it says:

'You can drive a motorcycle of a power exceeding 35kW' and 'A motor tricycle with a power exceeding 15kW'. They are two different machines. A bike exceeding 35kW and a trike exceeding 15kW . How is that open to misinterpretation? The DVSA has written the incorrect words; I am interpreting them exactly as they are written.

Really don't mean to join a forum and sound facetious - but what you are telling me (and I know to be true) does not equate with what is written on the government's own service checker.

It doesn't make sense.

Last edited by SeanPM on 00:18 - 08 Jul 2015; edited 1 time in total
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SeanPM
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PostPosted: 00:17 - 08 Jul 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
screengrab of government website.
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Albigularis
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PostPosted: 00:36 - 08 Jul 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
What does it show on the back of your licence?
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SeanPM
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PostPosted: 00:37 - 08 Jul 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
Albigularis wrote:
What does it show on the back of your licence?


see attachment in first post mate
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weasley
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PostPosted: 06:17 - 08 Jul 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
The important (and confusing) part is the "79 (tri)" part in column 12. This is a restriction to the A licence category that restricts you to a trike only. So only the bit about riding a tricycle counts for you.
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arry
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PostPosted: 06:59 - 08 Jul 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
weasley wrote:
The important (and confusing) part is the "79 (tri)" part in column 12. This is a restriction to the A licence category that restricts you to a trike only. So only the bit about riding a tricycle counts for you.


Note on his screen grab no restrictions apply to the A licence part. They do on other classes (I suspect code 01 for sight correction).

It does look like they've messed up his record but DVLA never mess up. Especially not in favour of the individual, of course
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 08:33 - 08 Jul 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
Interesting stuff. They have munted that up good and proper.

Thing is, the online record is (according to DVLA) definitive. They habitually refuse to accept evidence to the contrary.

I can't find anything there that contradicts the plain statement that you have a full A motorcycle license.

For most practical purposes, I reckon you're good to go and ride any motorcycle that you like. Thinking
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SeanPM
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PostPosted: 08:35 - 08 Jul 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
arry wrote:
weasley wrote:
The important (and confusing) part is the "79 (tri)" part in column 12. This is a restriction to the A licence category that restricts you to a trike only. So only the bit about riding a tricycle counts for you.


Note on his screen grab no restrictions apply to the A licence part. They do on other classes (I suspect code 01 for sight correction).

It does look like they've messed up his record but DVLA never mess up. Especially not in favour of the individual, of course


Hallelujah - someone has confirmed what I am seeing! I can see the argument for the back of the license, but on the services checker, it is there - as plain as day - unrestricted 'A'. (spot on with sight correction - I used glasses for my driving test, but not for my original CBT)

Would be great if any learners out there (with a full drivers license and a CBT) could post an image of their license and what it says on the service checker to compete.

Then I suppose I have no choice but to contact the DVLA and insist they fix their error? Sad
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 08:40 - 08 Jul 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
SeanPM wrote:
Then I suppose I have no choice but to contact the DVLA and insist they fix their error? Sad

Or order another copy of your license ("lose" the current one) and see if the 79(tri) magically disappears.

Probably not, but if not then I have no idea what's going on.
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weasley
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PostPosted: 08:44 - 08 Jul 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
arry wrote:
weasley wrote:
The important (and confusing) part is the "79 (tri)" part in column 12. This is a restriction to the A licence category that restricts you to a trike only. So only the bit about riding a tricycle counts for you.


Note on his screen grab no restrictions apply to the A licence part. They do on other classes (I suspect code 01 for sight correction).

It does look like they've messed up his record but DVLA never mess up. Especially not in favour of the individual, of course


I agree that the screen information is misleading/wrong, but the licence is clear.

The '01' restriction would show on every category; 122 is a requirement to validate the AM category with Basic Moped Training.
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SeanPM
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PostPosted: 09:14 - 08 Jul 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
Rogerborg wrote:
SeanPM wrote:
Then I suppose I have no choice but to contact the DVLA and insist they fix their error? Sad

Or order another copy of your license ("lose" the current one) and see if the 79(tri) magically disappears.

Probably not, but if not then I have no idea what's going on.


This license was printed after my imaginary bike test so I can't imagine it will change.

I'm still going to get a 125, but would be great to get cheaper insurance Wink

What is really odd is all of the different dates they have. A starts 19 Jan '13, AM starts 2 March 13. Provisional A dates back to my first CBT in 08, but note has no restrictions. And everything else is dated around when I passed my driving test.

It's like when they made the changes to the regulations in 2013, someone pressed the wrong button.
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twistybiscuit
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PostPosted: 09:21 - 08 Jul 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
Mine says exactly the same as yours and I am equally confused (I also have a full car licence passed in 2009 and a CBT).

My understanding has always been that the Category A covers bikes and trikes, and the restiction on the back of the photo part states that its Category A limited to Trikes only.

https://www.gov.uk/changes-to-the-driving-licence-and-categories

This seems to state a few restrictions on the A category so maybe they're implicit and dont need to be stated. That's the only explanation I can think of...
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SeanPM
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PostPosted: 09:22 - 08 Jul 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
...and shouldn't the same 122 restriction show in my provisional A? See screenshot.

By DVLA's logic, I need a CBT to ride a 50cc but not a 500cc Neutral
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SeanPM
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PostPosted: 09:26 - 08 Jul 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
twistybiscuit wrote:
Mine says exactly the same as yours and I am equally confused (I also have a full car licence passed in 2009 and a CBT)...


Good to know. Cheers mate
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twistybiscuit
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PostPosted: 09:28 - 08 Jul 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
I'm working on the basis that the DVLA can't have messed up this catastrophically and its just that the website is very confusing... The table on the back of the licence makes sense, its just the website that seems to be wrong (or just oversimplified)
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SeanPM
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PostPosted: 09:32 - 08 Jul 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
twistybiscuit wrote:
I'm working on the basis that the DVLA can't have messed up this catastrophically and its just that the website is very confusing... The table on the back of the licence makes sense, its just the website that seems to be wrong (or just oversimplified)


https://www.laticsdrivertraining.com/blog/2009/04/28/bbc-watchdog-investigates-dvla-licence-blunder/

Wouldn't be the first time
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JonWal
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PostPosted: 10:09 - 08 Jul 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thats a bit Odd.

Mine has the Category 'A' online, like yours, but with ''Restrictions Apply''

I've completed my CBT, Theory and attempting DAS in September.
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SeanPM
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PostPosted: 10:13 - 08 Jul 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
JonWal wrote:
Thats a bit Odd.

Mine has the Category 'A' online, like yours, but with ''Restrictions Apply''

I've completed my CBT, Theory and attempting DAS in September.


The plot thickens. Is it the 122 code? Do you have a full drivers license?
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