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tyre pressure: higher in front??

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Rev-O
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Joined: 09 Jul 2015
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PostPosted: 13:52 - 09 Jul 2015    Post subject: tyre pressure: higher in front?? Reply with quote

First off, hello! New member here, first post.

Anyway, a question that's been bugging me.

I've been riding on and off (mostly on, thankfully) for about 12 years and have always thought that the rear tyre should have more air in it than the front one, right. Higher psi.

But a friend of mine who is a very experienced rider and mechanic runs his bikes the other way round: a harder front and softer rear.

Now, I trust him but that seems . . . wrong.

Any advice, opinions, experience etc from you chaps?
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Mudshark
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PostPosted: 13:58 - 09 Jul 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

what does the manual say?

2.5f and 2.9r for mine (bar)
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Andy S
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PostPosted: 14:17 - 09 Jul 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

What bike have you got?

On my Blackbird it's 42psi front and rear.

On my VFR is was 36psi front, 42psi rear.

Can't say I remember any of my previous bikes having a higher pressure in the front. That's not to say it doesn't happen though!
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JoeDougieDoug...
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PostPosted: 14:23 - 09 Jul 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Andy S wrote:

On my Blackbird it's 42psi front and rear.


Same on my NC700X - 42psi front and rear! Thumbs Up
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 14:25 - 09 Jul 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have you asked Squishy McRear why he does this? We can only guess.
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Dcwhite1984
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PostPosted: 14:25 - 09 Jul 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mine is 36psi front and rear, never heard of a bike having a higher pressure in the front.

Although its all relative, just because the rear is bigger doesn't mean it will be a higher psi.

PSI is Pounds per Square Inch so to get the same pressure doesn't mean the same amount of air.
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MarkJ
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PostPosted: 14:49 - 09 Jul 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Generally it's only when riding on track that you have the rear set to a lower pressure than the front, and even then it's only by a few PSI (28front hot, 26rear hot for example). I assume this is because the rear gets some hammer on track when exiting corners so needs a bit of wiggle room with the pressure in the tyre.

On the road it's always been the other way round, more pressure in the rear tyre (normally 36F 42R is what I've seen). I always imagined this was to keep the rear in a round shape to stop the centre of it squaring off too badly.

Someone will be along with proper scientific evidence soon hopefully, rather than my guesswork Very Happy

Edit: this is what a tyre guy at some trackdays has on his whiteboard
https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtp1/v/t1.0-9/11703095_10155886214640165_8034131384431250740_n.jpg?oh=aedbe96ba26ffd77abd96ecadb764c47&oe=56297098
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DrDonnyBrago
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PostPosted: 14:58 - 09 Jul 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

MarkJ wrote:


No way I'd pay £1 for two smarties.
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MarkJ
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PostPosted: 14:59 - 09 Jul 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

What about the blue one that's on special offer?
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Old Git Racing
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PostPosted: 15:24 - 09 Jul 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

My Ducati 999 manual says 31F 32R. Thats for the bike set up as standard, in single seat form.

On my bike I've adjusted the rear ride height to maximum, the fork angle to the steeper setting and raised the forks a couple of rings in the yolks. After trying different tyre pressures it now runs 30F 27R.

It's common on race/track bikes to run a higher front than rear pressure due to the heat build up changing the pressure. I'd run my TZ as low as 27F/24R depending on conditions.

Most manufacturers recommend pressures that take account of carrying a passenger, somewhere in the 36-8F 42-4R area. Fine if carrying 30 stone every journey but not too clever if you're riding solo on a chilly day.

There isn't a right or wrong way. It depends on the bike, how it's set up and how it's ridden.

I would always look at what the tyre manufacturer recommends rather than the bike manual especially on older machines as tyre technology has changed quite a bit since the manuals were written. Then take it from there and do what suits.

OGR
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Rev-O
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PostPosted: 17:58 - 09 Jul 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks chaps, that mostly confirms what I thought.

Bike is an ex-army Harley Davidson MT350 (Rotax single, enduro style bike; smaller brother to the Armstrong 500)

Tyres are Avon Distanzas
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Slacker24seve...
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PostPosted: 18:30 - 09 Jul 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rev-O wrote:
Thanks chaps, that mostly confirms what I thought.

Bike is an ex-army Harley Davidson MT350 (Rotax single, enduro style bike; smaller brother to the Armstrong 500)

Tyres are Avon Distanzas


The front is bigger than the rear, no? That might have something to do with it.
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Wonko The Sane
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PostPosted: 19:22 - 09 Jul 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Slacker24seven wrote:
Rev-O wrote:
Thanks chaps, that mostly confirms what I thought.

Bike is an ex-army Harley Davidson MT350 (Rotax single, enduro style bike; smaller brother to the Armstrong 500)

Tyres are Avon Distanzas


The front is bigger than the rear, no? That might have something to do with it.


pressure is a value per square area, e.g. pounds per square inch, or pounds per foot, the actual volume of air in the tyre only serves to wear you out more if you try to do it by hand / foot.


on my ZZR it's 36f, 42r

on my mountain bike I run higher pressure on the front wheel than the back as I want the bite and response from the front, comfort comes from the suspension - no suspension on the rear so want a bit of comfort and for it to grab terrain better
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Teflon-Mike
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PostPosted: 19:27 - 09 Jul 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rev-O wrote:
Bike is an ex-army Harley Davidson MT350 (Rotax single, enduro style bike; smaller brother to the Armstrong 500)


Off-road.. might make more sense.
In trials, common to back the tyre pressure off enormously; I might run as low as 8-10PSi rear on my old & tubed bike, folks on more contemporary machines with tubless tyres I understand often run zero psi! they rely entirely on the carcass stiffness & the creep-clamps! But on a front, pressures will tend to be higher and more normal;, I would tend to run between 12 & 20 in the front, or the tyre goes where it wants, not where I point it!
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barrkel
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PostPosted: 19:44 - 09 Jul 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Slacker24seven wrote:
The front is bigger than the rear, no? That might have something to do with it.

Rear tyres are usually bigger than front tyres because there's more force applied through the rear; smaller tyres don't last as long. Fat front tyres also affect handling: quickness of steering, and how much braking while leaned causes countersteer.

IMO it's a lot easier to tell when you've got the front too soft than the rear. A soft front won't stay put through a corner without constant steering input. If a bike keeps steering upright from friction (flopping into the corner), then the front needs more air.

Counterintuitively, contact patch has almost no effect on traction; friction is proportional to normal force, so with less contact patch, more weight is squeezed into a smaller area, so it nets out the same. It definitely affects friction from the carcass deforming though, and that friction heats the rubber - and the temperature of the rubber definitely affects traction.

Knobbly tyres on highly uneven terrain, etc., that's a different mechanical story than the simplifying assumptions underlying the concept of friction.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 22:21 - 09 Jul 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rev-O wrote:
Bike is an ex-army Harley Davidson MT350

Ah, then anything between 1 and 4 bar is probably optimal.
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hellkat
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PostPosted: 22:41 - 09 Jul 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rev-O wrote:
Bike is an ex-army Harley Davidson MT350 (Rotax single, enduro style bike; smaller brother to the Armstrong 500)

*rubs thighs*
Wub giggity Wub
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thx1138
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PostPosted: 22:48 - 09 Jul 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Teflon-Mike wrote:
Rev-O wrote:
Bike is an ex-army Harley Davidson MT350 (Rotax single, enduro style bike; smaller brother to the Armstrong 500)


Off-road.. might make more sense.
In trials, common to back the tyre pressure off enormously; I might run as low as 8-10PSi rear on my old & tubed bike, folks on more contemporary machines with tubless tyres I understand often run zero psi! they rely entirely on the carcass stiffness & the creep-clamps! But on a front, pressures will tend to be higher and more normal;, I would tend to run between 12 & 20 in the front, or the tyre goes where it wants, not where I point it!


don't some of those trials chappies now favour double chambered tubes, so the tyre side walls stay firmer?
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 22:56 - 09 Jul 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Teflon-Mike wrote:
In trials, common to back the tyre pressure off enormously; I might run as low as 8-10PSi rear on my old & tubed bike

Out of interest, do you go and pick up your disability benefits before or after enjoying your hobby of demonstrating physical and mental ability?
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bikertomm
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PostPosted: 23:14 - 09 Jul 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://stream1.gifsoup.com/view1/4098324/ohhhhh-o.gif

'borg went in.
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