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Can the council give me two parking tickets in 24 hours?

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londoner
L Plate Warrior



Joined: 12 Jul 2015
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PostPosted: 19:40 - 12 Jul 2015    Post subject: Can the council give me two parking tickets in 24 hours? Reply with quote
Hi all, I have received a parking ticket because I dared park my scooter and what a council warden deems is the pavement. I beg to differ, but that's another story.

The point is: I received two tickets, from two different officers, less than 24 hours apart. During that time I didn't move my bike - I only realised later when I found two fine son my bike. My question is: can the council (Southwark, in London) really fine me twice for what is, effectively, the same violation?

Thanks
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Pete.
Super Spammer



Joined: 22 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: 20:04 - 12 Jul 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
One every four hours far as I know. Count yourself lucky they didn't lift it.

If you don't think it's on a public footway take photos and contest it. You'll need some sort of evidence that it's within the boundary of a private building though.
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londoner
L Plate Warrior



Joined: 12 Jul 2015
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PostPosted: 20:17 - 12 Jul 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
Pete. wrote:
One every four hours far as I know. Count yourself lucky they didn't lift it.

If you don't think it's on a public footway take photos and contest it. You'll need some sort of evidence that it's within the boundary of a private building though.


It was chained to a lamp post with this 20 kg chain: I would have loved to see them trying to remove it! Smile
https://securityforbikes.com/proddetail.php?prod=P19-x.x

Is the one-every-4-hour rule documented anywhere, as far as you know? Does it change from council to council?

I thought it was a private road because the car bays next to where I parked have signs of private parking enforcement companies.

There was also a scooter parked, covered with an Oxford cover, and it didn't get any tickets Evil or Very Mad
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nowhere.elysium
The Pork Lord



Joined: 02 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: 20:41 - 12 Jul 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
londoner wrote:
It was chained to a lamp post with this 20 kg chain: I would have loved to see them trying to remove it!
A council worker with a petrol grinder really won't be slowed down by it.
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Pete.
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Joined: 22 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: 21:18 - 12 Jul 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
londoner wrote:

Is the one-every-4-hour rule documented anywhere, as far as you know? Does it change from council to council?


No idea. I was told it by a parking warden, but that was maybe 15 years ago.
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londoner
L Plate Warrior



Joined: 12 Jul 2015
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PostPosted: 21:24 - 12 Jul 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
nowhere.elysium wrote:
londoner wrote:
It was chained to a lamp post with this 20 kg chain: I would have loved to see them trying to remove it!
A council worker with a petrol grinder really won't be slowed down by it.


Anything is possible, not everything is likely.
Traffic wardens don't typically carry petrol grinders. Yes, they could theoretically ask the council to remove a 20Kg chain with some heavy duty grinder, and, yes, the council might theoretically agree to such a request, but I think the chances are quite low.

Incidentally, a scooter, with the battery removed and the plate broken in two, has been chained to nearby bicycle racks for a few months. I reported it to the police but it's still there.
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nowhere.elysium
The Pork Lord



Joined: 02 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: 21:37 - 12 Jul 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
londoner wrote:
Anything is possible, not everything is likely.
Traffic wardens don't typically carry petrol grinders. Yes, they could theoretically ask the council to remove a 20Kg chain with some heavy duty grinder, and, yes, the council might theoretically agree to such a request, but I think the chances are quite low.

Incidentally, a scooter, with the battery removed and the plate broken in two, has been chained to nearby bicycle racks for a few months. I reported it to the police but it's still there.
Fair enough. However, if it's been flagged for clamping or removal no chain is going to secure it.
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Yorkshire Geek
Scooby Slapper



Joined: 02 Jun 2015
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PostPosted: 21:39 - 12 Jul 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
londoner wrote:
Anything is possible, not everything is likely.
Traffic wardens don't typically carry petrol grinders. Yes, they could theoretically ask the council to remove a 20Kg chain with some heavy duty grinder, and, yes, the council might theoretically agree to such a request, but I think the chances are quite low.

If they want to remove it they will, there is no chain in existence that can stand up to professional tools for long, especially when you can work legally in broad daylight.
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londoner
L Plate Warrior



Joined: 12 Jul 2015
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PostPosted: 21:44 - 12 Jul 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
Yorkshire Geek wrote:

If they want to remove it they will, there is no chain in existence that can stand up to professional tools for long, especially when you can work legally in broad daylight.


Of course. My point was not that the chain is impossible to break, my point was that I deem it unlikely (not impossible, unlikely) the council would go through such trouble to remove a bike which was not causing any obstruction on a private road.
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chickenstrip
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Joined: 06 Dec 2013
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PostPosted: 21:47 - 12 Jul 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
londoner wrote:

There was also a scooter parked, covered with an Oxford cover, and it didn't get any tickets Evil or Very Mad


And this is still something I'd like to see confirmed one way or another. Can they lift the cover to check the plate? If just the plate is covered, are they allowed to remove the cover to get the registration? And will it vary from authority to authority? Police?
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nowhere.elysium
The Pork Lord



Joined: 02 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: 21:48 - 12 Jul 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
londoner wrote:
...my point was that I deem it unlikely (not impossible, unlikely) the council would go through such trouble to remove a bike which was not causing any obstruction on a private road.

Laughing
Tell me, have you had many direct dealings with London councils? Vindictive isn't even the word.
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Ste
Not Work Safe



Joined: 01 Sep 2002
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PostPosted: 21:55 - 12 Jul 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
No plate showing? Well that can be towed away at a cost of eleventy hundred ponds to you plus at least tree fiddy per day that it's in their yard.

You say it's a private road but it looks more like a footpath.

If you think your chain will stop parking wardens then lol.
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londoner
L Plate Warrior



Joined: 12 Jul 2015
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PostPosted: 22:01 - 12 Jul 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ste wrote:
No plate showing? Well that can be towed away at a cost of eleventy hundred ponds to you plus at least tree fiddy per day that it's in their yard.

You say it's a private road but it looks more like a footpath.

If you think your chain will stop parking wardens then lol.


I was not hiding my plate.
The scooter which was (with a cover) was not fined.
Another scooter, with a half broken plate and possibly stolen, has been left in a bicycle rack nearby. I reported it to the police as possibly stolen or abandoned, but no one has done anything. It's been there for over 2 months.

I bought a 20 Kg chain to deter thieves, not council wardens. Parking on private roads has always been tolerated in the area. I guess something has changed just recently.

It would be most useful if someone knew what the law says on the one-fine-every-four-hour rule.
Thanks!
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Yorkshire Geek
Scooby Slapper



Joined: 02 Jun 2015
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PostPosted: 22:30 - 12 Jul 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
The European Convention on Human Rights prevents being punished multiple times for a single offence, however if the maximum parking time is 2 hours and you stay for 6 they can probably argue that it's two separate breaches. I guess the key point is what is the ticket for? Is it because you were parked in the wrong place or because there's a time limit on parking on the road?
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Pete.
Super Spammer



Joined: 22 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: 22:30 - 12 Jul 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
Pickup crews do cut chains, I was talking about it to a contractor a few months back though he did say they personally would only cut them loose if they were causing an obstruction.
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132.9mph off and walked away. Gear is good, gear is good, gear is very very good Very Happy
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londoner
L Plate Warrior



Joined: 12 Jul 2015
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PostPosted: 22:31 - 12 Jul 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
Yorkshire Geek wrote:
The European Convention on Human Rights prevents being punished multiple times for a single offence, however if the maximum parking time is 2 hours and you stay for 6 they can probably argue that it's two separate breaches. I guess the key point is what is the ticket for? Is it because you were parked in the wrong place or because there's a time limit on parking on the road?


because I was parked in the wrong place
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Yorkshire Geek
Scooby Slapper



Joined: 02 Jun 2015
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PostPosted: 22:35 - 12 Jul 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
londoner wrote:

because I was parked in the wrong place

Might have grounds to appeal one then - I'd ask on peepipo for a more definitive answer.
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