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UrbanRacer
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Joined: 26 Jul 2005
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PostPosted: 09:37 - 27 Jul 2015    Post subject: Police on the internets Reply with quote
Came across this on youtube, Strathclyde's finest searching the internet for crime.

https://youtu.be/LUCRamTAJEY

Careful now.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 10:38 - 27 Jul 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
Lots of recent comments; presumably breaking news of this 7 year old publicity stunt has only now just triggered some Failbook outrage?
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Im-a-Ridah
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PostPosted: 11:18 - 27 Jul 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
The police have now taken to enforcing laws they've just made up themselves. It's perfectly legal to carry a knife, but they'll just arrest you anyway.

UK police state is here folks Police
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Omega
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Joined: 07 May 2009
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PostPosted: 12:36 - 27 Jul 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
Haha why would you post those pictures online? Looks pretty quick and easy to follow up so I'm glad they got arrested. Carrying a knife as a tool is fine if you need it but that isn't what these guys were doing.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 13:16 - 27 Jul 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
Im-a-Ridah wrote:
It's perfectly legal to carry a knife, but they'll just arrest you anyway.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Eliz2/1-2/14/section/1

We can roll as deep as you like on this one.
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UrbanRacer
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PostPosted: 14:04 - 27 Jul 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
Omega wrote:
Haha why would you post those pictures online? Looks pretty quick and easy to follow up so I'm glad they got arrested. Carrying a knife as a tool is fine if you need it but that isn't what these guys were doing.


No doubt about it, the neds/chavs in the photos are idiots but for the cops to be sitting on facebook trawling it for stuff like this is pretty lame.
Is this likely to lower the number of neds/chavs carrying knifes? nope. They just wont be so stupid in future to pose for a photo.
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oldpink
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PostPosted: 14:16 - 27 Jul 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
old news
they busted a local Chav a couple of years back when he posted pic's of himself with a samurai sword
in one hand and a load of E's in his other hand in a local park
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Im-a-Ridah
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PostPosted: 15:00 - 27 Jul 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
That was amended by the offensive weapons act 1996. Those laws apply to offensive weapons, but an article only becomes offensive when it is used in an offensive context. There is also the Knives act but again it contains exceptions for folding knives under 3 inches in length, and anyone with a reasonable excuse.

Offensive Weapons Act 1996
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1996/26/contents

Knives Act 1997
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1997/21/contents
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oldpink
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PostPosted: 15:33 - 27 Jul 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
Im-a-Ridah wrote:
the Knives act but again it contains exceptions for folding knives under 3 inches in length, and anyone with a reasonable excuse


was fishing on the local river where there is a path along the river
cops came by and asked me to put my fishing knife in my bag
(it was in a scabbard) rather than sitting in the open
it has a 6" fixed blade and a brass "Priest" on the handle for chapping the fish

said as long as it was in my tackle bag it was fine to be carrying it
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RhynoCZ
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PostPosted: 15:39 - 27 Jul 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
The Queendom at its best. Thumbs Up Laughing Laughing Laughing
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 16:08 - 27 Jul 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
Im-a-Ridah wrote:
That was amended by the offensive weapons act 1996.

Oh, it's on now.

Im-a-Ridah wrote:
Those laws apply to offensive weapons, but an article only becomes offensive when it is used in an offensive context.

Does it indeed?

Let's look at the Criminal Law (Consolidation) (Scotland) Act 1995, as amended by the Offensive Weapons Act 1996.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1995/39/section/47

CL(C)(S)A 1995 wrote:
“offensive weapon” means any article—
(a) made or adapted for use for causing injury to a person, or
(b) intended, by the person having the article, for use for causing injury to a person by—
(i) the person having it, or
(ii) some other person

Note the "or" clause. The "some other person" amendment is from the OWA 1996 and further prohibits rather than permits.

Now, are you perhaps arguing that "kitchen" rather than "combat" knives (video was tl;dw) are not "made or adapted for use for causing injury to a person" and therefore require intent?

Going with that?



I'll wait.


Ready?

Well, let's read on a bit, because that section isn't actually relevant - there's an entirely separate section for knives.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1995/39/section/49

CL(C)(S)A 1995 wrote:
any person who has an article to which this section applies with him in a public place shall be guilty of an offence

this section applies to any article which has a blade or is sharply pointed


With the aforementioned exemption for folding pocket knives. There is no requirement for intent. There are however some contextual defences (note, defences):

a reasonable excuse or lawful authority
(a) for use at work;
(b) for religious reasons; or
(c) as part of any national costume.

Do Ned trackies and a chib form part of a national costume? Is being a tooled up Billy Boy or a Tim a compelling religious reason? Thinking
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Im-a-Ridah
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Joined: 20 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: 18:52 - 27 Jul 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
oldpink wrote:
Im-a-Ridah wrote:
the Knives act but again it contains exceptions for folding knives under 3 inches in length, and anyone with a reasonable excuse


was fishing on the local river where there is a path along the river
cops came by and asked me to put my fishing knife in my bag
(it was in a scabbard) rather than sitting in the open
it has a 6" fixed blade and a brass "Priest" on the handle for chapping the fish

said as long as it was in my tackle bag it was fine to be carrying it


So your excuse for your non-folding over 3" knife was fishing. If it was a pocket knife then you'd not have to give any excuse.

Rogerborg wrote:
Im-a-Ridah wrote:
That was amended by the offensive weapons act 1996.

Oh, it's on now.
...


Your quote describes the "weapon" part of offensive weapon, not the "offensive" part. What gets you locked up under the offensive weapons act is using it in offensive context. So if you go to a pub with a kitchen knife, then that would pretty much do for "offensive weapon". Posing with a wooden pole in a field in a silly hat wouldn't seem to be covered by that, yet the cops still arrested the guy in your video for doing that, and from a picture taken potentially months or years previous no less.
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Rogerborg
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Joined: 26 Oct 2010
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PostPosted: 20:11 - 27 Jul 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
Im-a-Ridah wrote:
Your quote describes the "weapon" part of offensive weapon, not the "offensive" part. What gets you locked up under the offensive weapons act

Are you trolling or do you actually believe this? Thinking

Assuming it's the latter, then please be clear that I'm talking about knives because you talked about knives:
Im-a-Ridah wrote:
It's perfectly legal to carry a knife, but they'll just arrest you anyway.

QFT.

The offence is question for Weeges is therefore Criminal Law (Consolidation) (Scotland) Act 1995, section 49.

I'd invite you to take the time to actually read it, all the words.

<Roger sits down and starts singing about gold>

Did you notice that it says "any person who has [any article which has a blade or is sharply pointed] with him in a public place shall be guilty of an offence"?

There's no requirement to be "using" it. There's also no mention of "weapon", or of "offensive" in that section.

None.

Can you quote where it says any of them?

Blade or sharply pointed (and not a folding pocket knife) + possession in public = offence. There are defences, but "not using it tae shank some wee bawbag" isn't one of them.


Im-a-Ridah wrote:
yet the cops still arrested the guy in your video

My video? Eh?
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Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike

Last edited by Rogerborg on 21:39 - 27 Jul 2015; edited 1 time in total
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UrbanRacer
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Joined: 26 Jul 2005
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PostPosted: 20:39 - 27 Jul 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
Rogerborg wrote:
Im-a-Ridah wrote:
yet the cops still arrested the guy in your video

My video? Eh?


Yes, your fucking video.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 21:25 - 27 Jul 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
I seeeeeeeee.

<Backs slowly away>
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Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike
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Boris the spider
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Joined: 24 Jan 2013
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PostPosted: 21:39 - 27 Jul 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
Not new.

I used to trawl local websites through work computer. Amazing how many of the dafties have open profiles.
Found where the the lovelies were planning to party outside or hang out.

Used to pop up and confiscate all the booze and weed.
They all went home. Some by Police transport due to their state of intoxication.
Giving Joe public in the area a nice quiet night.
And no pissed up youths to deal with. Alleged sexual assaults. Disorder. Damage to property reports.

Other times used to chin wag and have banter with them.
Depending on who , where and what they had.
Turn a blind eye and leave em to it.

Win win situation.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 21:40 - 27 Jul 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
^^^
HIS video! Wink
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DrDonnyBrago
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PostPosted: 11:42 - 28 Jul 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
Rogerborg wrote:
Criminal Law (Consolidation) (Scotland) Act 1995


Scotland specific?
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 12:24 - 28 Jul 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
I always have a multi tool on me. Always carried one since I became a qualified engineer and now carry a leatherman wave.

The problem with this is it has locking blades but I was told from just about day 1 of my apprenticeship never to use a folding knife that didn't have a locking blade due to the risk of it closing on your fingers if you misuse it.

I suppose if I get pulled for speeding or something and they come the cunt I am potentially looking at a prison sentence.

Stupid law.
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.....
Quote Me Happy



Joined: 15 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: 12:34 - 28 Jul 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
Polarbear wrote:
I always have a multi tool on me. Always carried one since I became a qualified engineer and now carry a leatherman wave.

The problem with this is it has locking blades but I was told from just about day 1 of my apprenticeship never to use a folding knife that didn't have a locking blade due to the risk of it closing on your fingers if you misuse it.

I suppose if I get pulled for speeding or something and they come the cunt I am potentially looking at a prison sentence.

Stupid law.


You have to remember that you are allowed to carry such knives with a good reason. Being an engineer who uses one at work is a good reason although you may want to chuck it in the boot of your car or with your other tools when travelling to and from work.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 12:44 - 28 Jul 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
DrDonnyBrago wrote:
Rogerborg wrote:
Criminal Law (Consolidation) (Scotland) Act 1995

Scotland specific?

Scootlish video.

But there's an almost word-for-word equivalent for England and Walesland in Criminal Justice Act 1988 S139

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/33/section/139



Polarbear wrote:
The problem with this is it has locking blades

Which as you surmise means that it's not a folding pocket knife. Sad

https://www.bailii.org/cgi-bin/markup.cgi?doc=/ew/cases/EWCA/Crim/1998/385.html


Joe wrote:
You have to remember that you are allowed to carry such knives with a good reason. Being an engineer who uses one at work is a good reason although you may want to chuck it in the boot of your car or with your other tools when travelling to and from work.

Didn't work for the Director General of the Institution of Civil Engineers.

https://metro.co.uk/2006/11/20/brigadier-held-for-knife-on-train-400495/
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GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike

Last edited by Rogerborg on 12:46 - 28 Jul 2015; edited 1 time in total
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oldpink
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PostPosted: 12:44 - 28 Jul 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
when I'm out gigging I have a leatherman but it stays in my mixing desk flight case just in case we get stopped
not worth the risk to carry them on you outside of work Thumbs Up
when I bought mine the salesman told me not to carry it in public due to the knife laws
and the issue with locking blades
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groovylee
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PostPosted: 13:01 - 28 Jul 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
Polarbear wrote:
I always have a multi tool on me. Always carried one since I became a qualified engineer and now carry a leatherman wave.

.


[pedantic engineer mode]no self respecting Engineer uses a multi tool.

correct tool for the job. always.[/pedantic engineer mode]

Wink
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 17:13 - 28 Jul 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
The right tool is the one that you have with you.

I mean, ideally you'd chib a ned wi' one o' thae gallus ninja swords, but sometimes you hae tae make dae wi' yer maw's best carver.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 17:31 - 28 Jul 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
groovylee wrote:
Polarbear wrote:
I always have a multi tool on me. Always carried one since I became a qualified engineer and now carry a leatherman wave.

.


[pedantic engineer mode]no self respecting Engineer uses a multi tool.

correct tool for the job. always.[/pedantic engineer mode]

Wink


I quite agree, and never ever use a flat bladed screwdriver as a chisel Whistle

A multi tool is a wonderful bit of kit for those quick simple jobs and if it saves me a long walk back to the van, Thumbs Up
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