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Bikesafe or other further training?

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PaulDillon
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PostPosted: 12:11 - 11 Aug 2015    Post subject: Bikesafe or other further training? Reply with quote

I got my license 2 weeks back and have now got a Kawasaki ER-6n after a year on a 125. Scary stuff, so I am considering further training. I have heard Bikesafe run by the police is good. I wondered if people here thought it was either too soon (or is it never too soon?) for me to think about more training. Should I gain some more real-world experience first? Also what recommendations for alternatives to Bikesafe do people have? Thanks in advance
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davebike
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PostPosted: 12:37 - 11 Aug 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bikesafe as a start

Then get some experience before full on Advanced training

I would recommend IAM but I am biased as 20Years a member and Did 15+ Observing as they call their trainers
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Val
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PostPosted: 14:11 - 11 Aug 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bikesafe is good. You can try the free London code if it is still valid courtesy of Stoney and TfL Very Happy

https://www.bikechatforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=304462

I have done it last week see my feedback in the post above.

Any training is good.

Even you can try free DIY one. Ask some mate to video you from behind as you ride. You can learn a lot watching yourself.
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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha
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PostPosted: 15:27 - 11 Aug 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

IAM will definitely improve concentration levels and obs. Observers will also know where the best roads are, and their knowledge usually encompasses fairly large areas. The ipsga "system" can be useful as well, which rospa also use - it all comes from plod roadcraft. You'll probably make a few new mates too (although this kind of crap can be cliquey as fuck to start with). tl;dr - suck it and see.
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bamt
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PostPosted: 18:16 - 11 Aug 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Definitely get more training. It may be worth getting a few miles in first to get the best from a bikesafe day, as at the moment you'll still be getting comfortable on the bike.

Personally, I'd find your local IAM group and join up ASAP - it may be a few weeks before their next meeting or until you get an observer allocated anyway (especially at this time of year). In fact, that's exactly what I did - three weeks after passing my test I was out on my first run. I did have 1500 post-test miles under my wheels by then. My observer did comment that he liked having "fresh" riders as it meant fewer bad habits to correct, and it got me up to speed much faster than doing it myself.
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Marclev
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PostPosted: 02:05 - 16 Aug 2015    Post subject: Re: Bikesafe or other further training? Reply with quote

PaulDillon wrote:
I got my license 2 weeks back and have now got a Kawasaki ER-6n after a year on a 125. Scary stuff, so I am considering further training. I have heard Bikesafe run by the police is good. I wondered if people here thought it was either too soon (or is it never too soon?) for me to think about more training. Should I gain some more real-world experience first? Also what recommendations for alternatives to Bikesafe do people have? Thanks in advance


No definitely not too soon, I just did Bike Safe today, passed my DAS about 2.5 weeks ago. It was definitely worth it, the morning of theory is really useful (and in my opinion belongs in the DAS!), and then had a one to one observed ride by an active police rider in the afternoon. I got as much out of following him and watching him as having him follow me and commenting on my riding. Also the ride included motorway stretches, which you obviously don't do in the DAS.
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ScaredyCat
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PostPosted: 10:04 - 16 Aug 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would very much recommend the i2imca Machine Control courses mc1 and mc3 run by Tom Killeen.

Worth while and mc1 shows you very clearly just how stable your bike is.

Personally I did mc1 before I did BikeSafe I then went back and did mc2, although I wanted to do mc1 followed by mc2 in the same week, but they were out of places. Everything takes place on airfields and proper tracks with lots of space.
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FriendlyEllis
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PostPosted: 17:37 - 17 Aug 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

This
https://www.iam.org.uk/riders/riders-courses/advanced-riding/skill-for-life-motorcyclists
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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha
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PostPosted: 20:25 - 17 Aug 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

It'd be better if you explained what was good about that, and what wasn't. The IAM has already been mentioned above and there's a danger you're not really adding much.
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FriendlyEllis
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PostPosted: 21:30 - 17 Aug 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

trevor saxe-coburg-gotha wrote:
It'd be better if you explained what was good about that, and what wasn't. The IAM has already been mentioned above and there's a danger you're not really adding much.


I was seconding your opinion, that's all.

Most IAM observers will be better riders than most of us, certainly safer, and have training to pass these skill of being a safer, thinking rider on!

They train you to ride with alertness to make good safe "progress" on your rides, and in training, keep you to the law. They aren't allowed to train you to ride illegally.

Socially you get a good mix of people at IAM, some slow, some really fast, but all safe. I have had some really enjoyable social rides with IAM and some fast rides with members when not officially on club rides.
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FriendlyEllis
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PostPosted: 06:56 - 18 Aug 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrGs1 wrote:
Further 'training' is for the type who wear day glow ...Faggots.


I love Faggots.
You means the Scottish meatballs in gravy right?
I've never seen day glow ones though? Razz
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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha
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PostPosted: 12:42 - 18 Aug 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

FriendlyEllis wrote:
trevor saxe-coburg-gotha wrote:
It'd be better if you explained what was good about that, and what wasn't. The IAM has already been mentioned above and there's a danger you're not really adding much.


I was seconding your opinion, that's all.

Most IAM observers will be better riders than most of us, certainly safer, and have training to pass these skill of being a safer, thinking rider on!

They train you to ride with alertness to make good safe "progress" on your rides, and in training, keep you to the law. They aren't allowed to train you to ride illegally.

Socially you get a good mix of people at IAM, some slow, some really fast, but all safe. I have had some really enjoyable social rides with IAM and some fast rides with members when not officially on club rides.


If you do the IAM for cars, guidance is to use the whole of the road, iirc. And it used to be this for bikes too - but now isn't, apart from on unmarked roads where guidance varies by club (York is three quarters of the road).

Tbh, I actually tend to use three quarters or more of any road, if it's safe - i.e. riding the straightest lines possible when linking bends. I don't do this in group rides unless there's a clear agreement to not overtake. But otherwise, fuck it. I'll go for the straightest i.e. shortest line through bends, if I've got the view.

RE going wide on left handers, I don't always see the need for that on decent roads with sweeping bends. Slightly wide of position two is imo fine. I've had mates who've very nearly come to grief going wide for the view and met poorly positioned oncoming vehicles. One actually got hit and knocked off. So I'm a bit sceptical of some parts of ipsga.

Also, some people come out the other side of the course feeling infallible. Okay they've probably got better obs and stuff, but this is cancelled out by the notion that now they're "advanced" they're somehow invulnerable.
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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha
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PostPosted: 13:03 - 18 Aug 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrGs1 wrote:
Further 'training' is for the type who wear day glow ...Faggots.


Get yer sen down Squires on Saturday morning, have an assessment ride. I guarantee some of the observers will ride you ragged - true, some are pretty steady away. But there're more than a few who'll make you look like you're on a CG. Grow a pair - find out how much you suck.
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Amber Phoenix
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PostPosted: 13:24 - 18 Aug 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

trevor saxe-coburg-gotha wrote:

RE going wide on left handers, I don't always see the need for that on decent roads with sweeping bends. Slightly wide of position two is imo fine. I've had mates who've very nearly come to grief going wide for the view and met poorly positioned oncoming vehicles. One actually got hit and knocked off. So I'm a bit sceptical of some parts of ipsga.


Just passed my IAM last month, current guidance I received were:

"it depends!"

There's lot of techniques, but none are hard and fast, they encourage you to think and do what's best for the situation.

Re: sweeping left handers - if you've got visibility round the bend, why bother moving wide if it'll gain you no extra visibility? Sure, if hedges etc obscure vision, then yeah consider going wide - if it's safe and the surface allows.

Re: oncoming vehicles - don't place yourself where you'll encounter them. Particularly narrow lanes, hug the hedge on a left hander. Safety comes higher than sight lines. (I was marked down a spot for not doing this on the test, examiner scolded me and said I would come a cropper exactly as you described - whoops!)

I think the IPSGA thing and the 4 S's (Safety, Surface, Sight-lines, Straight-lines) are certainly worth thinking about. But they should drive a thought process, not just interpreted as a bunch of stuff to follow blindly.

Overall, I really enjoyed the course, made some good mates through my local group and definitely think I'm a better rider than prior to the course. I'm under no illusions of infallibility though! I've still got a lot more to learn yet.
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