E-cigs on the NHS.

[CaNsA]

I know we have a thread in RB for E-cigs, but I think this subject needs it's own thread here.

A while back, 19/8, the media was awash with:-

"E-CIGS, SAFER THAN SMOKING"
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/aug/19/public-health-england-e-cigarettes-safer-than-smoking

which leads onto

"E-CIGS ON THE NHS"
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-33978603

No-one is 100% certain that the lungs of vapers (the users of e-cigs) are not going to explode with lung aids or some other nasty thing after 50yrs of use, but the short term effects are pretty plain to see, especially to those who used to smoke.

Now that I have got the usual debate points out of the way, I wanted to voice my opinion on why e-cigs should not be made available on the NHS and find out what other people have to say about it.

At first I was surprised by the recent report from a major Government health body stating:- "e-cigarettes should be made available to on the NHS"
But then I started to think, it does happen once in a while and I usually have to nap afterwards.

This is not a good thing.
This is actually a terribad thing.

If e-cigs become available on the NHS then all the equipment and juices would need to be medically licensed and regulated along with all the other expensive and time consuming red-tape, which is exactly what the tobacco firms, pharma firms and government want.

What do you lot think?

[-Matt-]

I'm in two minds about it - I agree with your point about them likely becoming strictly regulated if they became perscribable, which would no doubt cause problems for people currently using them as we're able to now (myself included).

However, i'd be willing to 'suffer' that if it meant them becoming an option on the NHS personally, as I think it would have a huge impact on reducing smoking-related illnesses, deaths and so forth.

I think realistically whether they get approved for NHS perscription or not the regulation of them will come along sooner or later anyway unfortunately.

This article from a few days ago is interesting reading regarding the TTIP and the tobacco industry. Does make you wonder what currently 'behind closed doors', and future, more public legal influences may affect how readily available or heavily regulated they become.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/ttip-controversy-the-european-commission-and-big-tobacco-accused-of-coverup-after-heavily-redacted-documents-released-10473601.html

[-]

Nicotine is a luxury item, why on earth should the NHS pay for someone's Nicotine habit?

What next, free cider for heavy drinkers, Burger King vouchers for the obese?

I can see the logic of handing out eCigs to try to help people stop contributing vast amounts of money to the treasury, but can also see the "we want everything for free" element of society just using this free service to top up their fag habit.
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[Minty]

Make the e-cigs as plain and boringly functional as possible. Vaping has become trendy, make NHS e-cigs the thick rimmed 80's spectacles of the vaping world, only thems what truly want to cut down will use them.
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[CaNsA]

[kerr]

If it ever does get licensed il be stocking up on nic, i cant see them being able to do it to pg or vg as these have other uses not just ecigs, same with the flavourings, plus i doubt china will give 2 flying fucks and will still happily send over pv's for the same price.
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[Ste]

Providing them on the NHS to people who want to stop smoking seems reasonable enough.

If they then want to continue vaping then I struggle to see why the c-cigs and vaping liquid should be provided on the NHS.

Seeing as how much cheaper vaping is meant to be than smoking cigarettes, the cost can't be much of an obstacle to smokers who want to using stop smoking?

[Rogerborg]

[Minty]

[CaNsA]

[-Matt-]

[hedgehugger]

Not necessarily true about prices rocketing.
Paracetamol for instance. Can have it prescribed, and if you pay prescription charges, would cost whatever a 'script charge is these days, £7+. You can buy generic paracetamol, same strength for around 20p or a quid for the 100 that comes in the prescriptiion package.

It is up to people what they want to put into their own bodies, but in my view, E-cigs should only be prescribed to people wanting to give up smoking.


Are they cheaper to buy than a prescription anyway?

[Im-a-Ridah]

[CaNsA]

[Rogerborg]

[Robby]

tl/dr: Regulation wouldn't work, smuggling would be easy.

I can see both sides of the argument.

E-cigs have been shown to help people quit smoking - particularly if you class someone as "quit" once they are vaping with no nicotine. Even better, it makes quitters less likely to go back to smoking. You can have a night out, get pissed, buy a pack of fags, and go back to vaping the next day rather than going back to 20 fags a day.

On the other hand, part of the reason vaping is so popular is because it is unregulated. I can buy all my gear online from a variety of sellers. I can buy juice in a variety of flavours and strengths, all the way from zero nicotine to instant headache and feeling sick strength. This competition and lack of regulation also makes it very cheap.

Regulation would be irritating, but I don't think it would have much effect. Cigarette smuggling happens a lot, with people bringing in suitcases full of fags. When I worked at an airport, I used to see it every day - a table in the customs hall, piled high with fags. It happens because it makes money.

One little bottle of e-cig juice contains as much nicotine as about 50 packets of fags in the strength and bottle size I buy, and that's only 1.8% nicotine. I don't know how pure nicotine liquid can be produced, but if you push the boat out and say 100%, then I can smuggle the same amount of nicotine as you would find in a suitcase full of fags in a small bottle - maybe disguised as a battery for easy smuggling. Mix that with my easily obtained nicotine-free juice and I'm sorted.

Regulation wouldn't work. We'd all just start buying our nicotine on the silk road and mixing it at home, often getting it wrong and harming ourselves.

There have also been calls to ban larger tank sizes and that sort of thing. This may work on fags, which are disposable, but if I can order 10 larger tanks from China at £2/pop and one of them shows up, I'm sorted. The wicks are all standard so I can still get them, and the tank will last me for ages.

[wizzzard]