Kawasaki ER5 vs GPZ500 handling

[john24ssj]

Hi guys,

Got an odd situation here.
Currently got an ER5, first bike after passing my test last year. It's nice and all but seems to be really hard to corner on.
I mean I have to work really hard on the country lanes for it to go into corners. Power wise it's enough for me. (i've ridden honda CB600f, FZR400R and they handled like a dream)

I was wondering how different is GPZ in terms of handling? As their both in insurance group 8 would be a nice change I guess without cost much for insurance.

Thanks
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Bikes: Honda CBR600Fi, Kawasaki ER5

[grr666]

Are you counter steering?
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Currently enjoying products from Ford, Mazda and Yamaha
Ste wrote: Avatars are fine, it's signatures that need turning off.

[Rogerborg]

What the state of the tyre pressure, tyre profile, forks, springs and shocks?
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike

[Sheshka]

Can't speak as for the comparison, but have you checked the "usual suspects" of tyre pressures and wear across the tread?

Afraid I don't really have a shedload of experience to speak from, but I don't feel like it's much different to lean my own ER5 over than it was the CBF600 I did my DAS on.

What I do remember is day 2 of my DAS when heading out onto the road (having ridden to the centre on my CG125), and nearly not turning for the first "regular speed" - more than 20mph - sweeping bend because I was used to being able to just lean over and tip the CG enough for turns like that...!

[mentalboy]

[NJD]

[mentalboy]

[talkToTheHat]

Check your tyres, are they squared off? are your pressures correct? set any adjustability in the suspension (preload, compression/rebound if you have such) back to the default settings.

Now adjust the nut between the seat and the bars. Yep, you. Find a nice primer on counter-steering and read it. Your bike turns by torque input on the bars, not positional input (as per a car's steering wheel)

Short version: Grip bars as loosely as you can, push the right handlebar away from you and bike will start turning right.

Hanging off the bike is not required. A body position shift will give you the same rate of turn with the bike leaning less so becomes useful when your pegs get close to the ground. Note that in order to hang off the right side of a bike you likely push the left peg and right bar and hence initiate a countersteering motion. The idea is to be able to *know* what bar movements you make rather than relying on accidental movements ("I just lean and the bike turns").

Your likely failure, (and I went through a brief phase of this a few weeks into riding, i think we all do to some extent at some point) is gripping bars too tight and trying to turn bars the direction you want to go. This is a good way to go straight on.

If your cornering problems are more subtle than can;t make the bike turn then please describe in great detail.
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Bandit. does. everything.

[trevor saxe-coburg-gotha]

To novices, like me and you, there isn't going to be a night and day difference between the GPZ and the ER. Maybe the former has a slightly lower CoG, it may even be a couple kg lighter, and perhaps have a degree different rake and trail which could help create a slightly sharper handling. But unless pushed this kind of stuff won't be very apparent. Both models are decent first bikes and, aside from the faring making for less buffeting, the GPZ will feel the same.

Is the handling on the ER5 a "tram lining" type of problem? I.e. seems to want to choose its own line, and is hard to persuade otherwise? If so, and as said, check tyre pressures again - too soft and it will be horrible. Also, could - COULD - be worn head race bearings.
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"Life is a sexually transmitted disease and the mortality rate is one hundred percent."

Mobylette Type 50 ---> Raleigh Grifter ---> Neval Minsk 125

[john24ssj]

Thank you guys for all the feedback and replies

As far as I have checked both tire pressures are as they should. Front forks have new seals and oil and rear shocks are adjusted to my weight as per manual. Tires seem to have good thread and rear one is still nicely round.

Had my MOT just few months ago and they didn't pick anything with steering.

The problem could be me actually as I still am a new rider. But I have gone down the same route with those other two bikes (cb600f and fzr400) and cornering on those was effortless.

I plan to get a new bike some time soon but looking at 600cc the insure shot into £700 mark as 600cc comes into insurance group 11 compared to 8 on ER5 and GPZ500.

I looked at ER6 but the cheapest insurance quote I saw was £749
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Bikes: Honda CBR600Fi, Kawasaki ER5

[Rogerborg]

Hmm, sounds like you've checked the right stuff.

For what it's worth, my GPZ500 handled fine, although the rear shock was already quite saggy at just 4500 miles.
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike

[john24ssj]

Rogerborg well actually my rear shocks do have oil on them. Both of them.

How much does rear shocks affect the corner handling?
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Bikes: Honda CBR600Fi, Kawasaki ER5

[Kickstart]

[Carvel]

Feels like hard work in what respect?? Lazy to turn in?

[john24ssj]

[mentalboy]

[trevor saxe-coburg-gotha]

When it comes to comparatively restrained riding, I can't think that it'll be much different than the CB500 and they, in turn, aren't too different than the Hornet (OP said the Hornet "handled like a dream"). I appreciate the Hornet has a mono shock, but even so. Could it be a tyre thing? If the ER5's on Avon Road Riders, those are bloody hard and unless you're really chucking it around, they don't really get warm. A softer compound like say Michelin Pilot Activ or whatever are definitely more confidence inspiring.
____________________
"Life is a sexually transmitted disease and the mortality rate is one hundred percent."

Mobylette Type 50 ---> Raleigh Grifter ---> Neval Minsk 125

[Slacker24seve...]

Shocks are forked, oil is squelching everywhere and the arse is too low. This means not enough weight on the front, meaning it doesn't turn. Its that or Lupus.

OP - do two things. Check the sag:

Steps 2 & 3 here: https://www.visordown.com/how-to-do-just-about-anything/how-to-set-up-your-bikes-suspension/15237.html

And give the rear a good shove downwards. See how long it takes to come back up.
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Triumph Daytona 675 track bike + girlfriend's Honda Hornet 600
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Banger rallies are ace

[stinkwheel]

Wouldn't excessive sag make it turn in faster not slower?

OP. What tyres do you have and what size? They are fussy about tyres selection and there is also a possability the previous owner fitted non-standard sizes.

If it's got the right tyres and the suspension is working. OP could try dropping the forks down through the yokes a little. 5mm at a time because too far and you'll find it gets excessively twitchy.

That said, you're looking for a reason to buy a GPZ500. Do it. I can't comment about the comparative handling of the two bikes but it's an all round nicer bike.

Resistance to turning in shouldn't be an issue on either bike and if it is, it'll be a function of tyre choice and suspension/geopmetry setup.
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“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[john24ssj]

Bridgestone BT45 are tyres on the bike.

front - 110/70-17M/C
rear - 130/70-17M/C

Or it could just be me bad a riding
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Bikes: Honda CBR600Fi, Kawasaki ER5

[mentalboy]

I shall say this once more... in a different way... Six years ago I had the pleasure of riding one of these for about a year, at the time I had been riding various piles of two wheeled shite for over 25 years.
It was the heaviest handling bike I've ever ridden (now the Zed takes that title).

It was a great little bike for pottering around, the lump was ok and it was garaged which meant nothing rotted out too quickly.

The general consensus of opinion at the time was that it was a great first big bike but most owners would be bored of it within six months.

You can tinker with the front and back end as much as you like (believe you me, I did) but it will still corner about as well as a 6-tonne digger at 80mph. Don't beat yourself up about it OP, they are all like it!!!

[stinkwheel]

Oh well. Tyres are correct.

Exercising my google-fu...

The GPZ500 is 5mm longer so should, on paper, be more stable.

Rake angle is identical.

Longer trail on the ER5 (10mm longer)

Seat height 25mm higher on the ER5.

So, given I always found the GPZ to be fairly responsive, it's got to be that trail. 10mm is quite a lot more.

Tricky to alter without major modifications like chopping the frame or fitting different yokes.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[john24ssj]

Thank you guys for all the replies and sharing your knowledge I really appreciate it

I will keep my ER5 as a commuter for a moment(still got tons to learn). I will now be looking for something better to take down the welsh country roads.
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Bikes: Honda CBR600Fi, Kawasaki ER5

[lunty74]

[Rogerborg]

for the infill panels.

for the "NINJA" decal. Top trolling.
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike