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| ibodyslamrhin... |
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ibodyslamrhin...
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| Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg
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 Posted: 18:03 - 28 Sep 2015  Post subject: |
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All 125s struggle on hills.
Your best bet is probably a Honda Varadero 125, which you can get in your budget if you're patient and quick and lucky. But you can only buy bikes that are available, and at £1K you start to get into the region where you can't be choosy.
To be honest though, I'd get a car for that purpose unless you actively want to get into biking.
Doing a realistic 40 with the rain lashing down and your groin filling with freezing water and some Audi cun chap rammed up your arse might lead to buyer's remorse.
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike |
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ibodyslamrhin...
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| Teflon-Mike |
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Teflon-Mike
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| Posted: 19:46 - 28 Sep 2015 Post subject: |
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£120 for your CBT
£120 for a crash hat
£120 for a jacket & water-Proofs
£80 for some half decent boots
£100 for a half decent lock and chain so you stand a chance of keeping whatever bike you by
£300 ish for insurance, when you tick the box to say "+Commuting"
Leaves you around £8-900 ish to actually buy a bike with...
And at that kind of money.. what make and model we think might be better or worse is pretty irrelevant; what's actually on sale, and in half decent condition, worth buying, is far more relevant, and then it'll come down to choices between more or even more used and abused by learner, bikes, that will have a very eager market waiting to snap up anything worth having.
____________________
My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?' |
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| KnightsFall |
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KnightsFall
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| ibodyslamrhin... |
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ibodyslamrhin...
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| Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg
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| Posted: 21:03 - 28 Sep 2015 Post subject: |
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When Mike and I agree on something it's probably significant.
If you're committed to it, buy your gear then do your CBT.
If you're not, do the CBT first then buy your gear.
Then your security.
Get insurance quotes (try www.thebikeinsurer.co.uk) and then finally get your real bike budget to hand, in cash.
Then and only then start to look at what's available nearby. Forget dealer bikes, you'll be paying a big markup and at that money you're likely to be looking at sheds that the seller wanted rid of.
eBay is worth a look but at that money you're more likely to be getting via Gumtree.
Limiting yourself to one or a few bikes will mean you're missing out on better, cheaper ones.
Look at what's actually available, buy on condition and price.
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike |
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| Val |
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Val
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Posted: 21:23 - 28 Sep 2015  Post subject: Re: Starter Bike Suggestions? |
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| ibodyslamrhinos wrote: | Hi All
I am a 30 year old man who is 5ft9.
It's a short journey though, approximately 15 minutes maximum.
My budget is essentially £1500 all in, thats to cover everything: CBT, Bike, Insurance, Helmet.
£1000 Bike Budget
For 15 Minute Commute Only
Needs To Get Up Strenuous Hills At About 50mph |
You need good 125 scooter. Good learner legal scooter 125 has the same power as geared 125.
More specifically you need:
Honda SH125
Aprilia sportcity 125
Both have much better weather protection and a lot of under-seat storage space. Means you can pop up to Tesco and do some shopping too. Or have a space for somethings you may need to bring to work.
You do not need messing with gears on 125. Both have flat floorboard means you can get in and out of the bike easier. Both have nice comfty seats. Geared bike seat compared to these is a joke. Also avoid "sporty" position scooters. That is oxymoron. They are pain in the ass - literally.
You are planning to be all year rider, you will need in the winter:
Muffs £40
tucano urbano termoscud cover £80
Belive me much better.
____________________
Adrian Monk: Unless I'm wrong, which, you know, I'm not...
Yamaha Fazer FZS 600, MT09, XSR 900 |
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| mynamesnotrob... |
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mynamesnotrob...
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| Teflon-Mike |
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Teflon-Mike
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| Posted: 23:00 - 28 Sep 2015 Post subject: |
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| ibodyslamrhinos wrote: | in comparison to the cost of running a piece of junk car this is still MB assively cheaper. |
... you HOPE... you ent done it, so you don't know.
I run a piece of chit chavic.. R-Reg... I think... that's how much attention I pay to t! How old is that? 97 ish? Cost me bugger-all to buy; I didn't have to get a new licence to drive it, or get a new tool kit, or a complete new set of cloths.. in the last five years I have opened the bonnet a hand-full of times, mostly to top up the wind-screen wash!
It's a domestic appliance, used as such; it's cheap, its convenient and for the most part hassle free.
AND, it keeps me warm and dry in winter; has a sun roof if we ever get a summer, and just does the job it's supposed to.
If I wanted 'Cheaps' from my transport, I could make some pretty significant 'savings' by pumping up the tyres, and drivig the thing like my arthritic granny was i the passenger seat, abut to moan every time I accelerated a bit quick or braked a bit hard.. then a HUGE amount more, simply NOT using the thing when I don't really need to....
And this is true of most folk; the average car n the UK does about 12,ooo miles a year; the average daily commute, is aprox 10 miles; 100 miles a week, 5ooo miles a year.... add some more 'essential' domestic travel to that, and still, the average car does near twice as many miles as it really 'needs' to, and most people sweating over fuel prices, could very very easily see a far greater real-world cash saving, from 'rationalising' and 'prioritising' their vehicle use, than they ever will, from buying a 'more economical' one....
Biggest 'potential' for saving, by getting a bike, then is likely to NOT be because it does 100mph or so, BUT simply because it ISN'T a car, and doesn't have the same 'convenience', and you simply wont make so many 'unnecessary' journeys, when you have to get togged up to go out in the cold and the wet, or you cant easily chuck a moths worth of freezer shopping in a tank-bag...
Which also offers a potential cost-shift... you'll likely still make those 'convenience' journeys... but you'll just use the G/F's car.... her fuel bill, not your's! Just 'cos it comes not of a different pocket doesn't mean its not, not coming out of one!
Back to the bike... potential fuel savings look good, and you can, using one sensibly, see close on that legendary 100mpg... but, on a little bike, it CAN drop off quite significantly, when you start trying to hold higher road speeds, and thrashing the things for all they're worth... but on a 15 mile commute? What are we talking; 7,500 miles a year; if you got that magical 100MPG, that's 75 gallons of go-juice, about, £450's worth.. lets call it £500 for round numbers... that's maybe twice as good as a cheap car, like my ancient Honda Chavic; but its STILL only a saving of £500 a year... now start maintaining the bike, and your gear, and repeating your CBT or working towards a full-licence.. that £500 is going to very quickly be eroded, when you need a new crash-hat cos you cant see through the visor of the one you started with, any more; your worn every-day over suit is leaking, and you need new tyres and your front brake calliper un-siezing....
The Veradaro is a very well regarded learner-bike, and you might, if you are lcky, eek one in your budget... BUT, they haven't sold a new one for over five years, and to my mind, they are trading on an over-inflated reputation; older-ones, more likely to fall into your budget are now approaching fifteen years old, and there are an awful lot of potential money-pits out there, ridden near into the ground, by a succession of owners sold on the reputation.. starting to get shocked when under all that tidy plastic, the out-of-sight, out of mind, and overly intricate mechanics are starting to wear out, and with two cylinders twice as much likely to go wrong and twice as hard to fix when it does.... and the whole thing is likely to be 'Beyond Economic Repair', when a few relatively minor MOT fail items are totted up with the dealer time to sort them....
That's a risk on any older bike, and more so on older Learner-bikes, but a much bigger one on that particular model.. and a £900 bike that needs £500 worth of 'repairs', which is barely the cost of a par of new tyres, brake pads and a new Chain & Sprockets.. if you pay the MOT Mechanic to do it for you, rather then book some time f work and invest in some spanners, SUDDENLY isn't 'saving' you money...
BUT, there's still more 'risk'; that you will crash the thing... more repairs to pay for, to keep it serviceable; again eroding the pretty small 'potential' for saving the thing actually offers over a car, and as a learner, AND braving the worst of UK weather, commuting through the winter, you are only ramping that risk.
Worst case, you write the bike off, either because its to worn out to be worth fixing, or you bugger it beyond salvation.. that's £900 buy-price straight out of the savings it probably hasn't made in two years....
Cheap car? What £500. Risks it'll lam you with such lemon-costs are less; if only 'cos at £500 you'll more readily weight the damn thing in and get another than try fixing it; but you're also a lot less likely to bend the thing banana shape.. or yourself in the process!
Be VERY sceptcal about a bike 'saving' you money. It MIGHT, there is potential there, IF you are careful, and IF you are more than a lttle 'lucky', but its a big gamble; and I REALLY don't advice people to bank on 'savings' they haven't actually got in the bank.
Get a bike, because you WANT a bike... IF it saves you any money, great, but do NOT expect it, and for fuck's sake don't try justifying the bike on all these 'Savings' you hope to see... especially not to a woman!
She'll NOT see the 'savings'.. she WILL see, and go to great lengths to question you over the 'savings' every time she sees something 'bike related' being or having been bought... from a £3 side-stand puck, to a new balaclava, kneck warmer or thermal underwear! "SO much for all the savings, when you have to keep buying all this crap... looking poignantly at some article of domestic furnishing that she has mentioned, subtly, half a dozen times, 'needs' replacing.. like the kitchen!
THEN, even if the thing IS returning real tangible savings on your transport costs... they might very NOT be worth the 'hassle'.. even if the bike ent any!
Remember, if t has tits or tyres, it means TROUBLE! 
____________________
My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?' |
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| Teflon-Mike |
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Teflon-Mike
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| Posted: 23:19 - 28 Sep 2015 Post subject: |
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| mynamesnotrobert wrote: | I'm looking into getting my first bike as well and keep seeing the Varadero getting mentioned on this sub. Looking around I don't see many for sale though. What makes this bike such a good choice in the 125 market? |
Physically they are a larger bike; makes them more comfy for larger riders; they have a more upright riding position, which again, makes them more comfy; but aesthetically, they don't look so much like a 'Toy' to any-one myopic enough to miss the 'L-Plates' hanging off the thing!
Other than that; as new, they were one of THE most expensive Learner-Bikes on the market; ISTR at one point they sat on the dealer's show-room floors with a higher sticker-price on them than the CB500!!! They were a £4K bike almost a decade ago!
That 'up-market', I mean, you could have had two CG125's for the same money; you'd expect a bit more 'bike' for your buck.. and Honda gave enough to make folk hand it over.
The quality of finish was high, as you'd expect from a flag-ship in class model; 'performance' was also 'better'; thing had a full quota of learner-legal horse-power and could, just about top a genuine 70mph, under its own power, in the real world, with a real person in the saddle; twin cylinder engine is relatively smooth and 'civilised' compared to mostly single-cylinder machins in the class.
All up, it looked like, and rode like a 'bigger' bike than it really is; and t proved relatively reliable.. quite probably boosted by first buyers tending to be more mature 'learners' less want to thrash'em, trash'em ad crash'em. As tey have aproached middle-age, beyond 7yrs, and 2nd hand, fallen to the same price range as less well originally specified Learner-bikes, and into the budgets of the more usual Learner-Rider, and used more typically.. we've seen more usual examples of neglect and abuse and shear 'botchery'.. which is worry-some, because that twn cylinder engine is more itricate and more difficult to work on than simpler, cheaper machnes, and hidden behind shiny body-work, is out of sight and out of mind; so there is a lot more potential for a bike to be a complete dog, under the shiny bits; and more incentive in the resale values, held high on the reputation, for them to be bodged even more, rather than weighed in as a lost cause.
So, when new, they were a 'better' than average Learner-Bike, cos they cost a lot more than average... as they have got older, that 'better' is entirely dependent on CONDITION... they were only ever 'new' as long a they were sat in the show-room without a number-plate.. after that, its down to the same lottery as any other bike.
____________________
My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?' |
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Rogerborg
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| Baffler186 |
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Baffler186
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| Posted: 09:28 - 29 Sep 2015 Post subject: |
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If you're dead set on a varadero then go for it, they are good bikes, but there are many other options out there if this is only going to be a cheap commuter. Cg, cbf, ybr, even a Chinese bike in good nick. Moore options means more choice and you're less likely to pay over the odds, given that "cheap commuter" seems to be your main priority.
I rode a cbf125 all over the place for over a year, never had issues with lack of power (none that a different 125 could have solved anyway). It's all relative, and if you're potentially spending hundreds more on a varadero for the sake of one steep hill then bang goes your cost savings.
____________________
Current: 2009 SV650 S, 1990 Kawasaki GT550
Previous: 2009 CBF125, 1998 GSF600, 2004 FZ6 Fazer, 1978 CB400a Hondamatic |
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| ibodyslamrhin... |
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ibodyslamrhin...
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| Posted: 10:20 - 29 Sep 2015 Post subject: |
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| Teflon-Mike wrote: | | ibodyslamrhinos wrote: | in comparison to the cost of running a piece of junk car this is still MB assively cheaper. |
... you HOPE... you ent done it, so you don't know.
I run a piece of chit chavic.. R-Reg... I think... that's how much attention I pay to t! How old is that? 97 ish? Cost me bugger-all to buy; I didn't have to get a new licence to drive it, or get a new tool kit, or a complete new set of cloths.. in the last five years I have opened the bonnet a hand-full of times, mostly to top up the wind-screen wash!
It's a domestic appliance, used as such; it's cheap, its convenient and for the most part hassle free.
AND, it keeps me warm and dry in winter; has a sun roof if we ever get a summer, and just does the job it's supposed to.
If I wanted 'Cheaps' from my transport, I could make some pretty significant 'savings' by pumping up the tyres, and drivig the thing like my arthritic granny was i the passenger seat, abut to moan every time I accelerated a bit quick or braked a bit hard.. then a HUGE amount more, simply NOT using the thing when I don't really need to....
And this is true of most folk; the average car n the UK does about 12,ooo miles a year; the average daily commute, is aprox 10 miles; 100 miles a week, 5ooo miles a year.... add some more 'essential' domestic travel to that, and still, the average car does near twice as many miles as it really 'needs' to, and most people sweating over fuel prices, could very very easily see a far greater real-world cash saving, from 'rationalising' and 'prioritising' their vehicle use, than they ever will, from buying a 'more economical' one....
Biggest 'potential' for saving, by getting a bike, then is likely to NOT be because it does 100mph or so, BUT simply because it ISN'T a car, and doesn't have the same 'convenience', and you simply wont make so many 'unnecessary' journeys, when you have to get togged up to go out in the cold and the wet, or you cant easily chuck a moths worth of freezer shopping in a tank-bag...
Which also offers a potential cost-shift... you'll likely still make those 'convenience' journeys... but you'll just use the G/F's car.... her fuel bill, not your's! Just 'cos it comes not of a different pocket doesn't mean its not, not coming out of one!
Back to the bike... potential fuel savings look good, and you can, using one sensibly, see close on that legendary 100mpg... but, on a little bike, it CAN drop off quite significantly, when you start trying to hold higher road speeds, and thrashing the things for all they're worth... but on a 15 mile commute? What are we talking; 7,500 miles a year; if you got that magical 100MPG, that's 75 gallons of go-juice, about, £450's worth.. lets call it £500 for round numbers... that's maybe twice as good as a cheap car, like my ancient Honda Chavic; but its STILL only a saving of £500 a year... now start maintaining the bike, and your gear, and repeating your CBT or working towards a full-licence.. that £500 is going to very quickly be eroded, when you need a new crash-hat cos you cant see through the visor of the one you started with, any more; your worn every-day over suit is leaking, and you need new tyres and your front brake calliper un-siezing....
The Veradaro is a very well regarded learner-bike, and you might, if you are lcky, eek one in your budget... BUT, they haven't sold a new one for over five years, and to my mind, they are trading on an over-inflated reputation; older-ones, more likely to fall into your budget are now approaching fifteen years old, and there are an awful lot of potential money-pits out there, ridden near into the ground, by a succession of owners sold on the reputation.. starting to get shocked when under all that tidy plastic, the out-of-sight, out of mind, and overly intricate mechanics are starting to wear out, and with two cylinders twice as much likely to go wrong and twice as hard to fix when it does.... and the whole thing is likely to be 'Beyond Economic Repair', when a few relatively minor MOT fail items are totted up with the dealer time to sort them....
That's a risk on any older bike, and more so on older Learner-bikes, but a much bigger one on that particular model.. and a £900 bike that needs £500 worth of 'repairs', which is barely the cost of a par of new tyres, brake pads and a new Chain & Sprockets.. if you pay the MOT Mechanic to do it for you, rather then book some time f work and invest in some spanners, SUDDENLY isn't 'saving' you money...
BUT, there's still more 'risk'; that you will crash the thing... more repairs to pay for, to keep it serviceable; again eroding the pretty small 'potential' for saving the thing actually offers over a car, and as a learner, AND braving the worst of UK weather, commuting through the winter, you are only ramping that risk.
Worst case, you write the bike off, either because its to worn out to be worth fixing, or you bugger it beyond salvation.. that's £900 buy-price straight out of the savings it probably hasn't made in two years....
Cheap car? What £500. Risks it'll lam you with such lemon-costs are less; if only 'cos at £500 you'll more readily weight the damn thing in and get another than try fixing it; but you're also a lot less likely to bend the thing banana shape.. or yourself in the process!
Be VERY sceptcal about a bike 'saving' you money. It MIGHT, there is potential there, IF you are careful, and IF you are more than a lttle 'lucky', but its a big gamble; and I REALLY don't advice people to bank on 'savings' they haven't actually got in the bank.
Get a bike, because you WANT a bike... IF it saves you any money, great, but do NOT expect it, and for fuck's sake don't try justifying the bike on all these 'Savings' you hope to see... especially not to a woman!
She'll NOT see the 'savings'.. she WILL see, and go to great lengths to question you over the 'savings' every time she sees something 'bike related' being or having been bought... from a £3 side-stand puck, to a new balaclava, kneck warmer or thermal underwear! "SO much for all the savings, when you have to keep buying all this crap... looking poignantly at some article of domestic furnishing that she has mentioned, subtly, half a dozen times, 'needs' replacing.. like the kitchen!
THEN, even if the thing IS returning real tangible savings on your transport costs... they might very NOT be worth the 'hassle'.. even if the bike ent any!
Remember, if t has tits or tyres, it means TROUBLE! |
Thanks Teflon Mike....
As I mentioned we drive an electric nissan leaf at the moment, so we have no fuel costs. As I also mentioned I live just outside Bath, in a very small street of mining cottages with zero parking other than our spacious garage (where our car charger is) so its a space factor as much as a money saving one.
Prior to buying our brand new shiny electric car we always owned £1-2k jobbies, none of which lasted very long. If theres one thing I have learned about buying vehicles, is that no one, not a McLaren F1 mechanic or the average joe, is determine how long a car will last. As the plethora of things that can go wrong with it out of nowhere for no reason and cost you a small fortune to repair before something else goes the following week, is completely unpredictable. Thats the good thing about an electric, the amount that can go wrong with it, is probably halved compared to a normal car. That combined with £400 insurance for a year, £150 tax for a year, expensive petrol outlays for a year, then inevitable MOT failures with a £1k car that require repairs from an untrustworthy mechanic. The costs add up to something not worth thinking about.
Yes these costs probably still exist with a bike, but definitely not, in my opinion on the same level as a bike that literally has to do me 12 miles a day 4 days a week.
I do actually want a bike as well as all the pro's against the cons. I'm a pragmatic and financially fiscal chap and certainly don't make decisions likely.
The whole reason for my original post was to determine 3,4 or maybe 5,6 recommended options that I could save searches for on gumtree and ebay within 25 miles of my area. Have a look, have a ride, get a feel, make a more informed decision.
Thanks again for everyones input, and if people think a 125 scooter will have the same power to get up a hill, I will certainly look into that as well. |
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| ibodyslamrhin... |
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ibodyslamrhin...
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| Posted: 10:29 - 29 Sep 2015 Post subject: |
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| Baffler186 wrote: | If you're dead set on a varadero then go for it, they are good bikes, but there are many other options out there if this is only going to be a cheap commuter. Cg, cbf, ybr, even a Chinese bike in good nick. Moore options means more choice and you're less likely to pay over the odds, given that "cheap commuter" seems to be your main priority.
I rode a cbf125 all over the place for over a year, never had issues with lack of power (none that a different 125 could have solved anyway). It's all relative, and if you're potentially spending hundreds more on a varadero for the sake of one steep hill then bang goes your cost savings. |
Yep, very wise point. Thanks 
I've not got my heart set on anything, I'm open to anything that gets me up the hill and is cheaper than a car. My already extensive research is leading me to the following:
Yamaha: DT125, TW125
Honda: Varadero, CBR125
But as I said, not ruling anything ou. Just want a handful of suitable makes and models I can keep my eye out for and have a go with really. |
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| winz |
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winz
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Ste
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| Posted: 10:39 - 29 Sep 2015 Post subject: |
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No point in wasting time on a tiddler if you don't have to.
I'd be incredibly disappointed in any vehicle that struggles with the "strenuous" hills you're talking about!! 
Another advantage of getting your full license rather than fucking around on a CBT is that you're less likely to become a statistic. |
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ibodyslamrhin...
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winz
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Ste
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| Posted: 11:39 - 29 Sep 2015 Post subject: |
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Best get your CBT booked then.
As you're hoping / needing to buy a bike by the end of next week, be careful of not making compromises that you wouldn't even consider were it not for the time restraint. |
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