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WHERE DID ALL MY ENGINE OIL GO?????????

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Sean.S
Trackday Trickster



Joined: 20 May 2015
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PostPosted: 21:41 - 15 Oct 2015    Post subject: WHERE DID ALL MY ENGINE OIL GO????????? Reply with quote
this one had me scratching my head and im lost for ideas...

less than 2000 miles after an oil change my engine seized up completely while making a nasty grinding noise (i change the oil regularly using silkoline oil) i took the bike home and went to drain out the oil to see if anything was floating in it that shouldnt be, and to my suprise is was completely empty. there is also no obvious reason for where the oil could of went

-theres no leaks, and the engine was bone dry

-the sump plug was nice and tight

-the oil wasnt being burnt in the cylinder, and there was no blue smoke

luckilly there wasnt any damage done to the engine, i refilled the engine with oil and the bike has been running perfectly fine for the past couple of months since. im always worried it may happen again though, last time i was lucky i didnt have an accident because it locked up the rear wheel at 50mph

any ideas guys?

Last edited by Sean.S on 21:44 - 15 Oct 2015; edited 1 time in total
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Pete.
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PostPosted: 21:43 - 15 Oct 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
What bike?
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132.9mph off and walked away. Gear is good, gear is good, gear is very very good Very Happy
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Sean.S
Trackday Trickster



Joined: 20 May 2015
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PostPosted: 21:45 - 15 Oct 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
its a chinese supermoto with a suzuki gn125 engine
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ssray
Borekit Bruiser



Joined: 03 Sep 2007
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PostPosted: 21:49 - 15 Oct 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
Small sump and amount of oil, would not take long at high revs to lose it all past the rings etc
hoe often do you check it? were there many longer or Mway journeys?
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Pete.
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PostPosted: 21:53 - 15 Oct 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
Well, if it's not leaking, and it's not burning then either:

1. Someone doesn't want you riding the bike and has drained the oil or
2. you drained the oil, put the sump plug back in then got distracted and forgot to fill it up.

One thing's for sure - if you ran it without oil you haven't 'got away with it'. The GN engine is a roller main and roller end crank but it's a plain-bearing camshaft. there's bound to be cylinder head, camshaft or cam follower damage. Start looking for a new engine or at least a cylinder head. It's only a matter of time.
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132.9mph off and walked away. Gear is good, gear is good, gear is very very good Very Happy
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Rogerborg
nimbA



Joined: 26 Oct 2010
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PostPosted: 21:55 - 15 Oct 2015    Post subject: Re: WHERE DID ALL MY ENGINE OIL GO????????? Reply with quote
Any sign of oil in the airbox? Crank-case breather is attached to the airbox OK?

Any chance someone has put a cone filter on it and just dangled the crankcase breather under the bike where it's been merrily spurting away?

Even at that, or even if it was burning it, completely empty is a big ask. There's got to be some oil in the sump to splash it up the bore or out the breather.

How absolutely rock solid certain are you that you put oil in it last time?
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P.
Red Rocket



Joined: 14 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: 21:56 - 15 Oct 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
Well that's fucked. Get another engine.
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Ariel Badger
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PostPosted: 22:01 - 15 Oct 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
What Paddy said minus the swearing but it is.
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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Joined: 09 Oct 2015
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PostPosted: 22:16 - 15 Oct 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
Paddy. wrote:
Well that's fucked. Get another engine.


Paddy could be right. I bought a low mileage 2010 VW Tiguan which started shuddering and vanishing its oil. Eventually VW put a new engine in because the piston coating had failed. It's a known fault with late 2009 TSI engines. The car wasn't obviously burning or leaking oil so I think it was turning it to coke inside the engine. Maybe a parallel here, or faulty piston rings? Hope not.
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Jewlio Rides Again LLB
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PostPosted: 22:20 - 15 Oct 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
Muricans invaded and stole the oil.
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Rogerborg
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Joined: 26 Oct 2010
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PostPosted: 22:20 - 15 Oct 2015    Post subject: Re: WHERE DID ALL MY ENGINE OIL GO????????? Reply with quote
OP:
Sean91 wrote:
the bike has been running perfectly fine for the past couple of months since.



BCF:
https://lake.blogs.com/.a/6a00d83452654869e200e55282a3988834-pi
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike
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mentalboy
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Joined: 05 May 2012
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PostPosted: 22:22 - 15 Oct 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:
Paddy. wrote:
Well that's fucked. Get another engine.


Paddy could be right. I bought a low mileage 2010 VW Tiguan which started shuddering and vanishing its oil. Eventually VW put a new engine in because the piston coating had failed. It's a known fault with late 2009 TSI engines. The car wasn't obviously burning or leaking oil so I think it was turning it to coke inside the engine. Maybe a parallel here, or faulty piston rings? Hope not.


Could be? I'd say that it was an understatement, engines no like being run dry!! Laughing

I blame the pikeys Evil or Very Mad
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Sean.S
Trackday Trickster



Joined: 20 May 2015
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PostPosted: 22:26 - 15 Oct 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
Absolutely certain Laughing I remember binning the empty silkoline bottle. Theyre 1L bottles so i pour it straight from the bottle into the engine

It wouldnt of rode for over 1000 miles with no oil in i shouldnt think Laughing

I ride for upto an hour at a time, i try to avoid motorways on a 125 but will be breif if i have to

Last edited by Sean.S on 22:31 - 15 Oct 2015; edited 1 time in total
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Ariel Badger
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PostPosted: 22:30 - 15 Oct 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ride it one mile with no oil to the bearings and it is borked.
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Sean.S
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Joined: 20 May 2015
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PostPosted: 22:32 - 15 Oct 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
It had oil in to begin with thats for sure, but what happened to it after, god only knows

With my usage is it even possible for the engine to burn up 1 whole litre of oil in 1000 miles?
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 22:45 - 15 Oct 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
The Tiguan (yeah, it's a car but it is a low-revving 1.4 petrol with an oil capacity of 5L) was illuminating the oil light and slipping past the lowest level on the dipstick in less than 1000 miles, so yes, your bike could do similar.
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MCN
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Joined: 22 Jul 2015
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PostPosted: 00:10 - 16 Oct 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
Oil Maggots ate the oil.
Or wot Pete sez.
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P.
Red Rocket



Joined: 14 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: 06:35 - 16 Oct 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
How often have you been changing it?

It's quicker and easier to just find a chinky engine and fit it
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smegballs
World Chat Champion



Joined: 28 Oct 2007
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PostPosted: 07:01 - 16 Oct 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
Does said bike have a sightglass? If so get in the habit of checking it each day before starting the engine.

It's good drills to get into, and a few secs of faff can save you big bills. I once worked on a farm where the farmer insisted you check the tractor oil each time you started it up. A bit OTT but I wasn't gonna be the one who didn't check it if it ever shat its pants and died.
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andys675
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PostPosted: 10:29 - 16 Oct 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
mice

basque separatist mice
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Monkeywrenche...
Nearly there...



Joined: 27 Mar 2015
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PostPosted: 10:33 - 16 Oct 2015    Post subject: Re: WHERE DID ALL MY ENGINE OIL GO????????? Reply with quote
Sean91 wrote:

my engine seized up completely while making a nasty grinding noise

luckilly there wasnt any damage done to the engine

it locked up the rear wheel at 50mph


there Definitely is damage to your engine, bearings were starved of oil and components locked due to heat expansion so you haven't got away with anything other than the engine currently still runs, its just massively shortened the life of some of the components which may now fail suddenly/Spectacularly.

Has it been losing any oil since you filled it again?
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temeluchus
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PostPosted: 10:42 - 16 Oct 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
Leave the blatant troll alone kids.
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mentalboy
World Chat Champion



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PostPosted: 11:02 - 16 Oct 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
temeluchus wrote:
Leave the blatant troll alone kids.


But what about all the lovely Karma Karma Karma I get for posting drivel in the workshop section? It's just not the same in 'Dear Auntie' Sad
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Rogerborg
nimbA



Joined: 26 Oct 2010
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PostPosted: 11:40 - 16 Oct 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
mentalboy wrote:
But what about all the lovely Karma Karma Karma I get for posting drivel in the workshop section? It's just not the same in 'Dear Auntie' Sad

This is a very cromulent observation.

Anyway, the very FIRST thing you need to know is that the Honda CB125 Super Dream is a 'Classic', a very useful one, too, and it has an awful lot going for it, that can make it a very discerning choice of bike. BUT, if you just want cheap wheels, or a tool to pass your test on, your probably best to look elsewhere. You need to have a bit of 'enthusiasm' to actually WANT a CB125 Super Dream, and if your going to live with it, you ought to have a good idea of what they are, what their history is, and what makes them worth owning.

Already written an article, Learner Legals & Honda Super-Dreams, to explain why this little 'under-dog' of a bike is a bit 'special' and worthy of attention. But in short, it was in 1982 Hondas premier 'sports' 125 for the new 125 Learner-Legal market. A four-stroke twin cylinder machine, intended to compete head to head on performance against rivals single cylinder two-strokes, when Honda were still ardently committed to the four-stroke engine and campaigning the oval-piston wonders against the two-strokes in 500GP racing.

The legal 12.5bhp 'restriction' helped, the Super-Dream but it still had to be 'de-tuned' from the earlier models 16bhp to meet it, the same as the all new Kawasaki AR125LC and Yamaha RD125LC, and boasted as many technically avant-garde features, so it DID have the performance to match its two-stroke rivals, at least when they were standard and genuinely learner-legal.

Nearly thirty years on, its conservative styling and four-stroke engine mean the bikes now perceived simply as a slightly more sophisticated 'commuter' like The Legendary Honda CG125 that's the bench mark for the class. Testimony to the soundness of the bikes design and engineering, though, it was in production for approximately ten years until 1992, without significant change.

There are few AR's or RD's around any more, most thrashed to death by a succession of kiddie-go-quickly owners and their attempts at servicing and tuning (see 125's - Live Hard), and the few that have survived tend to be either basket cases offered for restoration, or over-priced teenage revival trophies. Its testimony then that the little Super-Dream not only outlived its rivals in the show-room, but also on the streets, where so many are still in use, and as often as every-day working commuter bikes.

As a potential buyer, this does bode well. There should be plenty to choose from, to be able to find a better one. And as I have alluded to elsewhere, this is an 'under-dog' motorcycle, which means generally undervalued, hinting that there should be bargains to be found... or at least better bikes for more realistic prices, as the bike has past the 'test of time' and shown itself basically sound and reliable and well proven.

BUT! It IS still an 'old' bike, and the youngest of them out there will be at least nineteen or twenty years old, with the majority being built between 1982 and 1986, quarter of a century, pushing thirty years. AND while its conservative styling and four-stroke engine have placed it in with the commuter bikes, its 12,000rpm red line certainly does NOT! This IS a 'sports-bike', and it was far more avant-garde when launched than Honda's current 'premier' CBR125, which in many ways is actually a lot more conservative.

Worth noting that many of the features of the modern CBR125 are actually no more 'advanced' than the 125 Super-Dream, particularly the important bits, front and rear suspension, brakes, and tyre sizes.

And while it may boast a water-cooled and fuel injected engine, that is significantly to meet modern emission requirements, not for reliability or performance, and it's rated power out-put is within a gnats, the same as the 'ancient' Super-Dream twin.

Meanwhile, the fashionable beam-style frame and sporty faired styling, offer little functional value to the motorcycle. That frame is designed for least manufacturing cost, not ultimate structural stiffness!

While the aerodynamics of the bodywork offer little practical stream-lining to help the bike go faster! And the small weather protection they might offer has to be balanced by the vulnerability, if the bike gets knocked off the side stand!

Compared to the 'Bench-Mark' Honda CG125, the little Super-Dream is in a completely different league. The CG might have gained electric start and disc-brake in its long and illustrious production history, but it was always a 10bhp 'budget' commuter, built down to a price, most in Brazil. Which is another plus point in the Little Super-Dreams favour, as a premier model, it was always built in Japan. It even says so on the generator cover. Which is a boast I'm not sure even the CBR can make, and even if it can, an awful lot of the 'bits' that have gone into building it will have come from Taiwan or China!

So, the Honda CB125 'Super-Dream' is a well proven, enduring little 'sports-bike' that has stood the test of time against its contemporary rivals, and STILL bears favourable comparison against modern offerings. And it can be viewed as many things, depending on your perspective.

It may merely be perceived as a slightly more sophisticated commuter, an alternative to the CG125. Providing the creature comforts of an electric start and disc brake, only found on the later models, a little more performance, comfort and 'substance' for want of a better way to describe the better finish and feel, without simply saying 'heavy'! (It weighs 125Kg, exactly the same as a CBR125 or YBR125, and a mere 9Kg, more than the CG! That's roughly the difference between a full tank of petrol and being on reserve, yet some people still insist THAT is a big deal! Usually older ones that remember it being a little heavier than an RD or AR)

Or it can be viewed as as a traditionally styled and budget-priced 'sports' Learner bike, a cheap alternative to the CBR125, or as likely the Chinese or Korean copies. But it SHOULD be perceived as a 'classic', and a very useful and practical one, that can still earn its keep as an every day bike, against the teen-age revival bikes, like the RD-LC or AR125 and such.

Its worth mention that a lot of owners reports of the Honda CBR suggest that its no where near as exiting as its avant-garde styling suggest it should be, and its actually a rather uninspiring ride, a commuter in sports bike cloths. The 'old' Super-Dream could probably stand the opposite allegation. Its a proper sports-bike in commuter cloths!

Ranking the bike against alternatives; nearly every-one I have ever met that has owned or ridden one, has said positive things about it, and they have nearly always been happily surprised by it. The main thing that people will tell you about them is that they were a lot of fun, and surprisingly fast, and comment on the unexpected wail of a little four-stroke screaming its way up to the 12,000 RPM red-line, yet not blowing up or demanding frequent rebuilds like the two-strokes, and starting on the button first of second prod, no matter what, and just 'working'.

A few people have criticises the bikes performance and handling, and I have been dogged by people suffering niggles and hassles, asking advice over worn bores and dodgy electrics, but for the most part, these can be explained by the old age and state of neglect or disrepair of the bikes in question. Good ones are pretty damn good, but its still a learner-legal 125, and an old one likely to have suffered a lot of abuse and neglect in the hands of a succession of newbie riders, and there are plenty of not so good ones out there! I know, all mine started out that way!
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Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike
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J.M.
World Chat Champion



Joined: 27 Mar 2011
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PostPosted: 13:57 - 16 Oct 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
Sean91 wrote:
It had oil in to begin with thats for sure, but what happened to it after, god only knows

With my usage is it even possible for the engine to burn up 1 whole litre of oil in 1000 miles?


My divvy drank 5L is 2600 miles. Though there was plenty of blue smoke under acceleration. Thing is, the smoke was easy to not notice as the rider. A laughing stock to everyone else.
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