bandit timing marks query

[sparkywilliam...]

Service manual says 'Turn the crankshaft clockwise and align the 'T'mark on the signal generator rotar with the center of the pickup coil'
please see attached pics,should i be aiming for pic 1 or 2,ie... lining up the top of the 'T' like manual says or line up the mark above it?

Guess what i'm also asking is what is the point of the line above the 'T'? if not to aid lining up.The pictures in both my haynes and the genuine service manual are not clear.

Ta all.
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Previously CG125,YBR125 Now GSF600 Bandit

[Pete.]

I'd go for 2, but you can check using a long pencil down the No1 plug hole.
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a.k.a 'Geri'

132.9mph off and walked away. Gear is good, gear is good, gear is very very good

[sparkywilliam...]

Thanks Pete,
i've attached a pic of my engine as i have it in my garage,can you confirm that cyl 1 is the furthest left ,ie first from left to right if you were sat on the bike?
And for your pencil suggestion,i'm guessing i am making sure the pencil is at it's highest point when the 'T' mark is close to the coil pickup yes?
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Previously CG125,YBR125 Now GSF600 Bandit

[Pete.]

Yes far left is no1. Pencil down the plug hole and watch it rise and fall as it goes over centre.
____________________
a.k.a 'Geri'

132.9mph off and walked away. Gear is good, gear is good, gear is very very good

[sparkywilliam...]

Ok bud ty.
I am trying to cut my teeth learning on this as you can tell!
Did the pencil thing and i get the gist,difficult to gauge when it's at it's highest cos as soon you know it's at it's highest you've gone too far and it's on it's way down! but i've gone by the line above the 'T' and i have noticed another issue in that the indicators on the ends of the camshaft's are not lining up correctly.
Too late tonight so will post picture of what i mean tommorow.
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Previously CG125,YBR125 Now GSF600 Bandit

[sparkywilliam...]

okay,i may be worrying over nothing here and i don't even know if it's even worth worrying about!
i will try and make it simple;

When i line stator up to pickup coil using the 'line' above the T;
Arrow 1 on the chain sprocket is not quite pointing to matting surface.
Inlet camshaft indicator is skewed
ex indicator looks ok.

When i line stator up to pickup coil using the actual T mark;
Arrow 1 looks spot on.
Inlet and exhaust look ok,there are small lines opposite the cut out's that actually line up along the mating surface perfectly.

So i am thinking that using the top of the 'T' character is the way to go however,it looks to me like the small cut outs on the ends of the camshafts will never line up and mirror each other perfectly which is what i expected and i'm surprised they don't.
Can anyone put my mind to rest a little.
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Previously CG125,YBR125 Now GSF600 Bandit

[sparkywilliam...]

I think i have solved this pathetic question with my own noggin.
After looking for the upteenth time,setting it to the top of the 'T' mark must be the correct way as the arrow on the sprocket lines up perfectly with the mating surface and the more i look at the camshaft indicators,the more i notice that they will never perfectly face each other due to the very subtle angle they are cut.So yes they do face each other at this point but not perfectly horizontally if you understand me.
The very small cut line opposite them help to verify you're at the correct point as you can see how close they are to a mating surface in the head.
So unless i have made a glaring stupid mistake (in which case please correct me) otherwise i think i'm okay for now
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Previously CG125,YBR125 Now GSF600 Bandit

[Vincent]

Re the timing mark...I'd be surprised if it's the "T" mark that's used and not the line above it. The "T" probably stands for "Timing". I could be wrong but I'd definitely be careful.
After resetting the cams, I always spend ages turning the valve train over by hand and studying it to make sure it's correct before firing up the engine. Quadruple checks are not unusual as incorrect timing can be catastrophic for the motor.
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Space Is Deep

[Ariel Badger]

This tends to agree with Vincent.
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Bikers make great organ donors, get 115 on your licence today.

[sparkywilliam...]

Well that's what i thought,why else would they have a line there?
Anyhow, i lined her up best i could and have removed the camshafts to check them.
I was talking absolute rubbish when i suggested earlier that the notches weren't cut correctly into their ends,they are,perfectly.
Quite why then,that i couldn't get them to oppose horizontally perfectly, i don't know.
Could a previous owner have set the camshafts up a just that little out so they aren't in synch with what the timing mark says on the rotar?
When i put it back together is when i shall double check and triple check,and may need to ask another bunch of silly questions.
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Previously CG125,YBR125 Now GSF600 Bandit

[Ariel Badger]

They will not line up if the chain is stretched or the sprockets are worn, are they all in good condition?
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Bikers make great organ donors, get 115 on your licence today.

[Pete.]

Most commonly T stands for TDC and F for firing (static timing mark). F appears usually only on a points ignition engine so you can set the contactor opening accurately.

There is no good reason to put any timing mark on a bike like the Bandit with CDi ignition when the pickup position is not adjustable because there is no facility for adjusting that timing, so the T mark can only mean TDC.
____________________
a.k.a 'Geri'

132.9mph off and walked away. Gear is good, gear is good, gear is very very good

[Vincent]

One things for sure...you'll never get a timing mark that has a flat top like on a "T".....it wouldn't make sense.
____________________
Space Is Deep

[sparkywilliam...]

Yes it must be the line above it that counts.
I will find out about the state of the chain and sprocket once i've acquired the knowledge to answer the question suffienctly close to your level of experience

In future i am trying to resist posting questions until i've exhausted my own efforts but i am stuck again on a basic problem which is how to ease off the cylinder block/barrel. Obviously not something that is meant to come off like butter.
I have removed the cylinder base nut and have tapped with a rubber hammer all around the non-finless areas particularly i have aimed some shots upwards against the exhaust end where there is a strong point of metal.I have applied plusgas down the cylinder bolt holes,around the seam,and down the stud hole of the cylinder base nut,just the very slightest of movement at the seem,say qtr of a mil movement.
I wondered could you give me some tips before i ring my mum and tell her i'm a failure.
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Previously CG125,YBR125 Now GSF600 Bandit

[Pete.]

[Vincent]

A rubber mallet's not much use I'm afraid...most of the shock that would release the block is absorbed by the rubber. Wooden mallets are good, or nylon ones, or a lump hammer and a block of wood. Some blocks have "pry" slots to get a large screwdriver or similar in, usually at the front but be careful not to damage the mating surfaces. You're absolutely sure everything's undone?
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Space Is Deep

[sparkywilliam...]

Yes Pete thanks,the line,I know that now it's because the camshaft notches weren't lining up which cause me to doubt it.

I've followed the manual and the cylinder base nut is removed so what else is there?
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Previously CG125,YBR125 Now GSF600 Bandit

[Ariel Badger]

[sparkywilliam...]

the rest? can't see anymore than just the one haynes refers to.
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Previously CG125,YBR125 Now GSF600 Bandit

[Ariel Badger]

I would have expected more, I could well be wrong.
____________________
Bikers make great organ donors, get 115 on your licence today.

[Vincent]

[sparkywilliam...]

Looked again on the engine to be 100% and both the suzuki service manual and haynes only mention removing the one at the front which is below the cylinder head one.
Tommorow i am going to lean the engine on it's side and trickle some plusgas into the seam and see if that helps break down the joint.
There is a lot of corrosion on the cylinder head bolts visible through the side of the block so maybe this is where it's stuck.
First time i've ever done this so approaching it probably far too gingerly.
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Previously CG125,YBR125 Now GSF600 Bandit

[Ariel Badger]

Just out of interest, why is the barrel coming off? I thought when you were doing the timing it was going back together.
____________________
Bikers make great organ donors, get 115 on your licence today.

[sparkywilliam...]

it started with that but i'm trying to learn about the engine.
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Previously CG125,YBR125 Now GSF600 Bandit

[Ariel Badger]

My best advice is.....Don't!
If you want to learn about your motor buy a scrapper rather than potentially create one!
____________________
Bikers make great organ donors, get 115 on your licence today.