So now is the time to buy new

[blueglue]

Well it appears after speaking to a dealer today that being 'off season' and the new ABS law coming in you can basically walk away with a non abs bike cheap as chips from November.

Most of the manufacturers are trying to dump their non abs stock, but in fairness most dealerships are only holding a few these days.

Definitely worth a punt if you are holding off until the weathers better. save a couple of grand and stick it in the garage.

*source* your mum

[Rogerborg]

I'm still confuddled about when mandatory ABS (linked brakes, Euro 4, OBD, nanny chips, A2 anti-tamper) actually arrives in practice. On various readings of the Eurodiktats it could be 2016, 2017, or just that Brussels won't homologate new designs as of next year.

Given the amount of new-old-stock kicking around, I wonder whether importers / dealers will have to register all of their Euro 3 / non-ABS bikes before the actual deadline and there will be a big glut of pre-reg bikes to snap up.

Riding gods who know that they can outbrake ABS under all circumstances shouldn't hang around too long though.
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Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike

[J.M.]

Always hated the idea of ABS on bikes, until the other day doing an emergency stop on a wet road with a fair amount of fallen leaves. Some girl fell off of her skateboard, that she was riding on the road, and sent the board straight towards me.

Locked the front. Managed to not drop the bike. Didn't stop in time (she must have only been 2 meters in front of me when she fell) but the board and herself luckily missed me).

I do wonder if ABS would have saved me from locking the front.
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2004 R1 & 2018 XSR900

[UnknownStuntm...]

[Rogerborg]

[KnightsFall]

[Polarbear]

Is this all bikes? Scooters, mopeds, 125's?

Surely another nail in the coffin of biking.
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Triumph Trophy Launch Edition

[Rogerborg]

[blueglue]

Well this is the official document but you can imagine its not bedtime reading material.

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=CELEX:32013R0168&from=EN

It does mention 1st January 2016 and there are at least twenty variants of motorcycle included and also some that arent (like motocross/enduro bikes).

Im not certain anything that is out there will be an issue but anything physically produced by the factory beginning next year will need to meet this approval.

Maybe someone can decipher it better

[Rogerborg]

That's the fellow.

Mopeds (including 3 and 4 wheelers) appear to get another year's grace because of Reasons.

Dammit, it looks like anti-tamper has made it into A1 (125cc) as well. Only full power (L3e-A3) bikes are exempt.

On OBD, the devil will be in the detail of the 'delegated acts'.

The bit that I'm searching for is a crystal clear statement on whether the dates only apply to new type approvals, or to bikes "made available on the market, registered and entering into service" (i.e. sold).

If it's the former, no big deal. If it's the latter, that gives two months to sell every single old-tech bike in the EU. Surely not.
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike

[Undinist]

TL, DR summary: relying on ABS is dangerous because it makes you go faster.

-------------------------

I disabled the ABS on my '94 BM - it would get confused by uneven surfaces and release the brakes just as I was trying to stop at a junction. I've always had this problem with the BMW ABS2 system. But there aren't any similar tales of woe on the interweb, so either lots of other ABS2 users have been killed by it, or I have a uniquely terrible riding style. It's a shame really, I'm sure ABS would do a better job than me if I had to do an emergency stop at speed, especially in the rain. At least I'm well aware of my limitations...so maybe I'm getting an active safety benefit because I'm paying more attention.
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Current bike: K1100RS. Previous: CD200, GSX250, GT550, VFR750, K100LT, K1100LT, R1100GS, R1150GS, ZZR1100, Hayabusa, RSV Mille, MV F4 750S, R1, ZX-10, KTM Adventure 950S

[Irn-Bru]

Saw a video once where a rider was going along and braked heavily, ABS kicked in and sent him wide on the corner and he went off course (no kittens were harmed). But seemed to me the opposite of what ABS is about. Poor rider skill or ABS issue? Also doesn't ABS add 5KG+ of weight and make bleeding brakes very difficult?
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KTM 990 SMT & Suzuki DR-Z 400 SM

[Kickstart]

[Northern Monkey]

[Ariel Badger]

[redeem ouzzer]

ABS is more for commuting than serious riding (i.e. going quick).

Discuss.

[barrkel]

ABS encourages you to go faster in a straight line in dodgy traction because you know you can slow quickly without fuss.

The reason it's good for commuting isn't because it isn't good when you're pushing the limit; it's because you generally commute no matter what the weather, whereas most people's "serious riding" is on sunny weekends. If you're braking hard enough to test available traction in the dry on public roads, IMO you may be pushing a bit too much.

Personally I think it's a little bit hard to resist using it to make up time on a slippery wet autumn day though. Accelerate hard when straight up, brake hard when straight up, smooth everywhere else.

ABS on my scooter adds 2.9kg vs model without.
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Bikes: S1000R, SH350; Exes: Vity 125, PS125, YBR125, ER6f, VFR800, Brutale 920, CB600F, SH300x4
Best road ever ridden: www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2MhNxUEYtQ

[blueglue]

to be fair you have to be in some shoddy conditions or in way over your head to get ABS to even kick in.
Hell my bike has traction control so im a drone anyway.

[bamt]

[Polarbear]

Linked brake systems Just why.

I have had Goldwings, a Blackbird and now my Trophy that have had linked brakes and I still haven't worked out why it is better than separate front and rear brake circuits.

The Trophy has some progressive system that alters the ratio of front and back depending on the conditions. Link in the ABS I'm surprised it even expects me to operate the damn things.

Over complicated crap.
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Triumph Trophy Launch Edition

[bamt]

It's like the new car assisted braking stuff coming out now. You don't even need to take your eyes off facebook whilst driving anymore, the car will automatically stop if you are about to hit something.

Thats fine for moments of inattention, but it ought to be combined with a robotic hand that comes out of the steering, gives the driver a good slap, then retracts, in order to stop people relying upon it.

[arry]

[Rogerborg]

Digest reply:

[Enduro Numpty]

ABS adds 10KG to the weight of my Fireblade but if I could be arsed I could easily shed 10KG from my BMI and balance it out. All FJR1300's have it as standard these days but they're comparable to a cruise ship in terms of weight anyway so no big deal.

On balance I think ABS is a good thing though I think compulsion is just bullshit and the fact that Bosch stand to make lots of money makes it a commercial thing rather than addressing concerns over safety.

What I'm not sure about is linked braking. Pull the brake lever on the FJR and only 6 of the 8 front pistons operate - the other 2 are activated by the brake pedal at the same time as the rear brake. When lever and pedal are operated together the brakes are superb but there are times when I want only the rear brake. Also when I pull hard on the (front) lever I would much prefer to have 100% front brake.

Fireblade combined ABS operates slightly differently. Brakes aren't linked as such till the system senses lock-up on one of the wheels. It then electronically activates the brake on the other wheel. I much prefer this system though there are a lot of reports of it being less than reliable. I've never had a problem and Honda not surprisingly don't acknowledge there is an issue. Bleeding this particular ABS system is a seriously complicated procedure and will involve 4 or 5 hours at a Honda dealers if owners can't do it themselves!!

[winz]