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Fuel injected rear disk brakes bikes?

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Drc12369
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PostPosted: 08:52 - 02 Nov 2015    Post subject: Fuel injected rear disk brakes bikes? Reply with quote
Hi.. I'm looking in to which bike to get.. It's only going to be a 125 as I'm not doing DAS... I've seen a few bikes such as the Daelim road win and the Derbi cross city which are going for around £1000 which have front and rear disk brakes and fuel injection engines.. I like the sound of this set up rather than drums and carbs which seems to be on most second hand bikes in my price range.. So I was wondering are there any other 125's in my price range with this set up that I'm not aware of? Cheers
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wr6133
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PostPosted: 09:05 - 02 Nov 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
Why do you think that setup is so much better?

A 125 even on carbs is going to get high miles to the gallon and a properly set up rear drum is perfectly good.

I'd concentrate on getting the best bike you can within your chosen budget rather than focusing on pointless details.
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Drc12369
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PostPosted: 09:25 - 02 Nov 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
I have zero knowledge that's why lol I'm a novice so assumed they'd be better.. Apart from something with as little rust as possible lots of service history, good brakes n tyres and has an mot and I like the look of I have no idea what to look for to get a good bike..
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arry
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PostPosted: 09:44 - 02 Nov 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
Don't stress out on rear brake - it's not going to do the majority of your stopping anyway
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wr6133
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PostPosted: 09:54 - 02 Nov 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
Drc12369 wrote:
as little rust as possible lots of service history, good brakes n tyres and has an mot and I like the look of


Concentrate on that, not so much specific features.

Keep in mind a lot of 125's will have been owner serviced so a fat folder of receipts for service items and parts can be as good as any dealer service history.

Last edited by wr6133 on 09:54 - 02 Nov 2015; edited 1 time in total
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 09:54 - 02 Nov 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
I'm pretty sure I've already said this in reply to one of your seat sniffing threads, but at your budget you can't afford to pick and choose bikes. If you limit yourself to a few models then you'll pass over perfectly decent bikes and are more likely to end up buying a lemon.
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Drc12369
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PostPosted: 10:11 - 02 Nov 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
I get where your coming from but I dont want to buy a bike I dont like the look of cuz it'll be 2 years till I'll be able to change it.. I've listened on the Lexmoto front and I'm now avoiding them.. I don't like the look of ybr's and the seating position on cruisers aren't what I'm after so im limiting myself already.. I'll see if anyone off here will check the bike out for me when I've got the cash in my hand & ready to buy
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wr6133
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PostPosted: 10:33 - 02 Nov 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
Extrapolating a bit here but you want

Under £1000
Japanese
Sporty looking
Long MOT
Good condition

Basically you want it all with a budget that only gets some.

You could probably find a CBR125 in your price bracket but I suspect you would need to compromise on long MOT and what constitutes good condition.

Best thing is to check gumtree within your chosen search distance every hour, if you see what you want get there cash in hand and buy it.
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el_oso
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PostPosted: 11:27 - 02 Nov 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
get one of these.

here's my one that I have for sale Rolling Eyes

honestly though, it's a really good bike. You should be able to find something similar within a reasonable distance to yourself. Although 125's tend to hold their value, they can be found a little cheaper at this time of year.

https://www.gumtree.com/p/honda-motorbikes/honda-cbr125-blue-2005/1139418394
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 12:20 - 02 Nov 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
Drc12369 wrote:
it'll be 2 years till I'll be able to change it.

Because of budget rather than licensing, I assume, otherwise you'd be doing DAS.

What's your plan if something goes badly wrong on the bike?

If you're strapped for cash and are planning on relying on it as daily transport, the last thing you'll want is a bike for which parts are hard to find. Your first port of call for any bike should be https://wemoto.com to see if parts are available.

I'd emphasise that, given that there are only 96 Daelim Roadwins and 199 Derbi Cross Cities currently on the road in the UK.

Again for luck: you can only buy bikes that are actually available in budget and within your travelling range at the time when you've got your CBT, gear, security, and cash-in-hand.
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Drc12369
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PostPosted: 12:24 - 02 Nov 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
Looks great mate.. Shame im in Bath lol I'm still waiting on the cash sadly.. Itll probably be 2 weeks before I'm in a position to buy.. Thanks anyway. Sure it'll shift quickly
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Teflon-Mike
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PostPosted: 12:42 - 02 Nov 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
Drc12369 wrote:
I have zero knowledge

Keep that thought in mind, that's the best bit of knowledge you seem to have gained so far...

Now Stop Thinking - Start.... no, actually, JUST 'Stop Thinking'....

Drc12369 wrote:
I assumed they'd be better..


ASSUMPTION IS THE MOTHER OF ALL FUCK-UPS!

A little lesson in 'Engineering' for you, there is NO such thing as 'Better' technology.. only more or less suitable APPLICATION of it.

Carbs vs Fuel injection.. WHY you believe that FI must be 'better' gawd alone knows. Likewise why Disk-Brakes 'must' be better than drums..... its a different technology, that's all. And it MAY be 'better'.. but that is very much dependant on its application.

Fuel Injection does the same job as a carburettor; engines turn heat energy into kinetic energy; heat comes from burning petrol, petrol needs oxygen from air to burn. All a carburettor or fuel injector does is mix petrol into the air being sucked into the engine, in roughly the right proportions that it'll 'burn'. There is nothing n a carburettor or a fuel injector that will endow an engine with astounding amounts of power or astounding amounts of economy. It's just beyond the laws of physics for them to do that.. so if one system is 'better' than another, then it must be 'better' in some other 'property' beyond the simple function of the thing.

And fuel injection is 'better', in one very significant property; its CHEAP. Certainly as far as a manufacturer is concerned.

A carburettor is made of metal; it has lots of little brass 'jets' inside it, and it to 'tune' one to suit a particular engine takes lots and lots of trial and error on a test-engine and a dyno, to find the 'optimum' set up.

A Fuel injector, is a tiny solenoid fired syringe, controlled by a computer. A fuel injector can be 'tuned', by simply changing a number or two in it's computer program; and no-one has to run off and make new needles or jets or anything. All the manufacturer needs is one standard part and a 'Nerd'.

A-N-D.. they can make the bike 'cheaper', and sell the difference as a sales 'feature', to both pocket the savings AND put the sticker price up to folk who have fallen for the hype over the last 40 years since the VW Golf 'GTi' set the ball rolling, that Fuel Injection MUST be 'better'....

Disk Brakes? Ooooh 'Safety'.. must be able to stop! Disc brakes more-powerful - must be better! BOLLOX!

How powerful a brake is, is just like an engine, but working backwards.. they turn kinetic energy (motion) and turn it back into heat, via friction; most trucks, still use drum brakes, and believe me, those things are POWERFUL, they have to be to stop that much mass from moving; giving 'lie' to the idea that disc-brakes are 'powerful' merely by some dint of the arrangement of the grippy bit, to the thing it grips!

'Advantage' that a disc brake MAY have in 'some' applications is space. The surface area of a two-sided disc can be larger, for a certain diameter than a drum, gripped on only one internal face; this may allow the same area of friction material to be applied to it whilst leaving more 'free' area to dissipated the heat generated; the whole 'assembly' there-fore made smaller, and possibly lighter.

Common adoption of the disc-brake, though, is again down mostly to economics; and an 'acceptably'powerful disc with 'reliable' hydraulic actuation, can be made more cheaply, and again 'sold' as a positive 'feature' to folk who know n better.

On a motorbike, the way a drum works, rotating a shoe against a drum, actually makes for a 'better' brake, in many cases. The 'take up' is a lot more progressive, the braking force being applied a little bit at a time as you squeeze the lever or prod the pedal, giving it a lot more 'feel' and making it a lot more easy to 'modulate' without having to resort to electronic 'anti-lock' rider aids!

This makes the 'advantage' of 'sharper' disc-brakes questionable, eve on bigger bikes, and certainly for rear-brakes..

But on a lightweight? the nature of a Drum brake is a positive advantage for BOTH front and Rear brakes, and even MORE so to a ham-fisted 'Learner' yet to acquire any sense of 'feel' for the controls!

Even more advantage to a drum in that, on a lightweight motorcycle, they can be made more than 'acceptably powerful' for the performance the machine offers, for even less 'cost' than an equivalent disc, with a simple 'mechanical' cable or rod actuation mechanism, instead of complicated hydraulics... which makes them an awful lot more user serviceable; a cable costs about a tenner; and it has no awkward to fit seals to wear out or need changing!

Only down-side' to a mechanical drum, is that it DOES usually need adjusting from time to time, where a disc-brake is effectively 'self-adjusting.

And THAT, more than anything, is where drum-brakes on little bikes tend to get their reputation for being 'weedy', 'cos they don't 'feel' so powerful having the 'immediate' take-up of a disc, made worse by poor adjustment that can see 'lag' introduced to the system, where the gap that has been worn away by use, has to be taken up by the first lever movement before they start to apply 'progressively', and any more wear in the system, especially 'old' cables sees them feel 'spongy' as lever effort is robbed stretching knackered old cable rather than pushing friction material against rotor!

Like I said, no such thing as a 'better' technology, its dependant on the application, and subjective as to who thinks what is more or less important.

Drc12369 wrote:
I get where your coming from but I don't want to buy a bike I dont like the look of cuz it'll be 2 years till I'll be able to change it..


Why?

Your buying a motorbike, not getting married to it!!

There are some folk, like Paddy, who change bikes more often their socks! And unlike X's they don't hold a grudge, or take your house! In fact, I've known disguarded socks cause more of a stink than a spurned motorbike!

Only thing that might make chopping & changing more difficult, is money; loss off 'depreciation', clearing a Credit-Agreement, that demand the full credit charge of entire repayment period, no matter how 'early' you settle; the swine of insurance, and punitive 'admin' charges to change the reg-no on the policy....

Hint 1; DON'T buy brand new - and the 'depreciation' on a 125 can be almost nothing.. or, live with it, that's what money's for, to buy stuff you need or want.

Hint 2; DON'T buy on credit - if you cant afford to buy cash, you cant afford it, AND it wont be 'your' bike, it'll be the credit-co's; you'll just be 'renting' it until the last payment is made, and then you'll have paid full list price of a new bike, plus umpety quid 'interest' for a second hand one!

Hint 3: Insurance - take theirs! Premiums they generally quote on 125's, even more so for younger riders on 125's are high, 'cos they are trying to tell you that the odds are almost a certainty, you WILL crash it, OR have it nicked....

That last 'hint' brings into question the suggestion that you MUST keep this bike for two years... and it's a rather naive notion to believe YOU actually have that much influence over the matter!

BUT, conclusion of all your saddle-sniffing IS, you are on a beggar's budget, and want as much of everything you can get for it, and top of your list, you have placed 'looks' and 'performance', and you don't want to compromise either, let alone your budget, and still hope to find some magic 'trick' to give you all you want....

There ent one... you have to compromise; and on your Beggar's budget, you need to make a LOT of compromise, and gauling to you as t may be to not have the 'style' you would like to subscribe to.. THAT I am afraid to say is the least important crteria in the mix, and the one compromise that will allow you to get so much more, or even ANYTHING at all, on the budget you are trying to work to.

So, small ponder point for you; YOU WILL NEVER LOOK COOL!

We were all teenagers, once, you know, and take it from us, helmet hair and acne, is NOT a great 'look'.. And that's on a good day... the 'half drowned rat' with helmet hair and acne, on a more typical day of British whether is even LESS 'cool'... while the 'fish-out-of-water' North-Sea-Diver on your door-step, is equally 'un-sexy'.

As for the bike? Well, nothing looks good with an L-Plate, giving lie to the fact it's a 125, and not a 'popper-chopper' or 'World-Super-Bike'.. it IS just a dressed up 'kiddie bike'.... might fool a few folk who know nothing about bikes, until they spot the L-Plate, but, if they don't have that much interest in bikes to know better, they are hardly going to be impressed by anything, are they?

Meanwhile; who do you even think will be looking at you? Number one excuse for crashing is the other driver saying "Sorry Mate I Didn't See You" (SMIDSY)... and they are the ones SUPPOSED to be looking! Who the hell do you think will take a blind bit of notice from the pavement?

Style? Its a vanity. Get over it. End of the day we buy bikes to RIDE not hang on the wall and admire!

So unless you just want to keep it in your bedroom to fap over; buy a bike you will enjoy RIDING, not one you hope other-people might go"'oooh! That's nice dear" while they wonder, behind your back, at your 'sanity' getting cold and wet and looking like a disfigured monk-fish, risking life and limb on the roads, when you could stay, safe and warm and dry on the bus...

And on that note, now, I might suggest, "Stop Thinking - Start Riding"

Or, adapted a little for you, on your beggars cant be choosers budget, "Stop Choosing - Start Begging"

125's are little bikes, there's very little difference between any of them.. so stop deliberating the minutia between them, and JUST get the fuck out there and find something some-one will let you have for the cash in your pocket, that you can actually RIDE.
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Drc12369
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PostPosted: 12:53 - 02 Nov 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
No it's a toy.. I won't be relying on it for anything.. I want to get up n running now with the budget I've got.. Its dead gran money lol its just something to go for Sunday drives on and maybe the odd 2 mile trip to work when I can't be arsed to walk. Yeah good point on the parts thing.. Ideally I want something that's easy to work on so I can pick up basic bike maintenance myself with a Haynes manual and a set of spanners.. I want to get a 125 up n running to see if I'm really into it.. I don't want to spend my whole budget on DAS and gear and have nothing left for a bike (although there's a 600cc bandit for sale a few streets away that looks bloody gorgeous). If I want a bigger bike I'll do the remaining licenses,& save up or get a loan some time next year once I know my sprockets from my flanges 😆
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Drc12369
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PostPosted: 13:00 - 02 Nov 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
Bloody ell mate that book you wrote is a tad excessive..
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MCN
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PostPosted: 13:23 - 02 Nov 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
Drc12369 wrote:
Bloody ell mate that book you wrote is a tad excessive..

Mooowahahaha.... Welcome to the Tef-light Zone Smile
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Drc12369
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PostPosted: 13:53 - 02 Nov 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
Bloke seems like a bit of a bell
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 14:08 - 02 Nov 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
Drc12369 wrote:
Bloody ell mate that book you wrote is a tad excessive..

That's just the foreword. Pale

And apologies for going a bit Tef about your budget. If it's just for occasional larks and you have no intention of getting licensed up then ... 2-stroke 125? Careful that the restrictor doesn't fall out. Wink
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 14:26 - 02 Nov 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
Drc12369 wrote:
Bloke seems like a bit of a bell


If you dig through his posts, you will find some gems of wisdom. It's the searching that is soul destroying.
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Drc12369
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PostPosted: 14:27 - 02 Nov 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
Cheers.. Oh I'll be very careful lol with the bike that " I" like the look of.. Couldn't give a badgers chuff what anyone thinks of either me or my kiddies bike 😆
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 14:27 - 02 Nov 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
I must admit the thread title had me wondering what a fuel injected disc brake was Shocked
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bikertomm
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PostPosted: 14:32 - 02 Nov 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
Polarbear wrote:
I must admit the thread title had me wondering what a fuel injected disc brake was Shocked


Snap Laughing

Clickbait Rolling Eyes
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talkToTheHat
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PostPosted: 05:15 - 03 Nov 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
I rode both FI and carbed YBRs when i was learning to ride. The carbed one was much much smoother. The FI one had a snatchy throttle response and the idle wasnt consistent.

Drum brakes just work. You might need to adjust occaisonally to avoid the pedal disappearing. Disk brakes have hydraulic systems and calipers that can seize. Drum rears are popular on smaller bikes as they work very well for that little bit of drag you need for slow maneuvering.
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WD Forte
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PostPosted: 19:02 - 03 Nov 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
Tefs posts can tend to be of the Ryme of the Ancient Mariner type when most seem to prefer a haiku form here
but as Polarbear said, they can contain good advice for those with the attention span.
I am one for economy of style but don't recoil in horror from long posts as
I have this wee roller thing on my mouse which allows me to scan and rollover anything I'm not particularly interested in.

Suggesting someone is a bell end for offering well intentioned advice
when what you seem to want is small pre-digested spoonfuls says a lot about the complainee.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 19:18 - 03 Nov 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
WD Forte wrote:
well intentioned advice

If his intention is to discourage people from even bothering, he's doing a bang up job of it.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 19:44 - 03 Nov 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
Bit unfair on Tef I think Roger.

Tef has always written a War and Peace version of events. Perhaps, as WD Forte says, if people have the attention span they might get something worth while out of it.
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