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el_oso
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PostPosted: 02:15 - 05 Nov 2015    Post subject: Fixed penalty Reply with quote
Through the post today I got a letter from the met police informing me about a fixed penalty I've received for displaying my number plate incorrectly.

The penalty they've asked me to pay is §100 (no pound sign on German keyboard). Seems a bit steep to me, thought a non-endorsable fine was §30, not that I've ever had one before.

They've alleged I've breached section 59(1) of the Vehicle Excise and Registration act, by incorrectly displaying my number plate. What evidence can they provide in court? Is their word enough?

What would you do?

I'm planning on paying the fine, as I may have gotten away lightly. I'm completely unclear what evidence they may have against me, but worst case could be they clocked me on their dashboard camera over 100mph in a 40mph (allegedly). I did also kill many kittenz, whilst on one wheel. (allegedly)

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ws4936
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PostPosted: 02:20 - 05 Nov 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
If it was through the post, I'd say the evidence would be that of a photo.
Out of interest what size is your plate?
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el_oso
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PostPosted: 02:34 - 05 Nov 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
Not sure it's marginally smaller. It doesn't have the required reflector on it which was their main concern at the side of the road. I honestly believe that they were trying to pin anything they could on me, because they could hear me hooning it. Unfortunately I don't have any idea what evidence the would have had on me and I'm not willing to play the game to see their cards.

At the side of the road I've never admitted to going more than the 40mph speed limit, stuck to my guns and insisted that I was going 40mph limit.

In their letter they have a typo, you think I should tell them?

https://cdn.bikechatforums.com/files/cdtmketwoaazysi.jpg
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 10:35 - 05 Nov 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
That does look rather like a 'we are going to get you for something' call. I've seen people get away with a warning for smaller plates than that.

However, I would be loath to yank their chain. Pay it and move on unless you are willing to put up with hassle from them.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 10:45 - 05 Nov 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
el_oso wrote:
It doesn't have the required reflector on it

The vehicle needs a reflector, not the plate. That's an entirely separate issue.

What exactly does the FPN notice accuse you of?

Did they take any pictures or measure the lettering on your plate at the scene?

Bear in mind that the CPS does the prosecuting, not the coppers. Reckon they'll touch it? Bear in mind that all the prosecutor wants is a win, so feel free to offer them a reduced bribe at the courtroom door.
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Motorhate
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PostPosted: 11:46 - 05 Nov 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
Blimey, this one surprised me:

Quote:
It is against the law to display a one line plate on a motorcycle regardless of the date of registration.


I've seen hundreds of bikes with single line number plates. Didn't realise they were illegal.
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groovylee
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PostPosted: 11:55 - 05 Nov 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
Quote:
It is against the law to display a one line plate on a motorcycle regardless of the date of registration.


serious question - what about the front mudguard ones on older bikes? don't they classify as a single line plate?
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c_dug
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PostPosted: 12:00 - 05 Nov 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
Rogerborg wrote:
el_oso wrote:
It doesn't have the required reflector on it

The vehicle needs a reflector, not the plate.


There is a bike parked in the car park opposite my flat, I went down to check he hadn't left his lights on the other day, and it transpired that the rear light was reflecting enough from the car park lighting to look like they were powered on.

Presumably a reflective rear light counts as a reflector?

Or does it have to be an entirely separate reflector?
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groovylee
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PostPosted: 13:19 - 05 Nov 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
cheers Vincent, i didn't know they had banned them. Thumbs Up
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el_oso
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PostPosted: 13:34 - 05 Nov 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
Rogerborg wrote:

What exactly does the FPN notice accuse you of?


breaching section 59(1) of the Vehicle Excise and Registration act, by incorrectly displaying my number plate

Quote:

Did they take any pictures or measure the lettering on your plate at the scene?


No, none at all. They did inform me that the dashcam in the car was recording. My worry is that if this is the case then their might be very naughty things on that footage that they could prosecuute for. Almost certainly a bye bye license.

Quote:

Bear in mind that the CPS does the prosecuting, not the coppers. Reckon they'll touch it? Bear in mind that all the prosecutor wants is a win, so feel free to offer them a reduced bribe at the courtroom door.


No I don't. It's just a waste of their time and my time. I also don't want to play a high risk game whereby they review the evidence and find more stuff to prosecute me on.

The offending license plate has been changed, just in case it was to ever appear again.
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.Bishbash.
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PostPosted: 13:41 - 05 Nov 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
el_oso wrote:
Rogerborg wrote:

What exactly does the FPN notice accuse you of?


breaching section 59(1) of the Vehicle Excise and Registration act, by incorrectly displaying my number plate


Did they not expand on this? Wrong letter sizing or plate size? What was it?
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Last edited by .Bishbash. on 13:42 - 05 Nov 2015; edited 1 time in total
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 13:41 - 05 Nov 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
el_oso wrote:
They did inform me that the dashcam in the car was recording. My worry is that if this is the case then their might be very naughty things on that footage that they could prosecuute for. Almost certainly a bye bye license.

If they're going to do you for other stuff, they're going to do you for other stuff. I'd deal with the plate as an entirely separate issue.

I'm not saying "fight the powah, bro", just noting that you're a long way from a conviction and it's up to them to make their case.
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.Bishbash.
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PostPosted: 13:56 - 05 Nov 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
Vincent wrote:
If they were intending to do him for other offences, wouldn't they have said this at the time......something like ...."you are also being reported for the offence of...blah, blah, blah ?


I would have thought so, yes!
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el_oso
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PostPosted: 13:58 - 05 Nov 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
Nope, no expansion at all.

My honest guess is that they were behind their quota on arrests and thought they could get me to admit to speeding. I'm not a complete moron, so didn't do that and proceeded to check the bike over with a very fine toothcomb trying to find anything that was wrong with the bike. The only thing they could find was the slightly smaller plate.

Like you say, for them a win is a win. I'd rather let them win over a dodgy license plate than anything else they can find.
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Previous: '05 XR125L | '96 XJ600S Diversion |'05 Suzuki GSXR1000 | '05 Honda CBR125-R | '97 YZF 600R Thundercat | '11 Honda CBR250
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c_dug
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PostPosted: 14:12 - 05 Nov 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
If they had evidence to do you for speeding they'd have mentioned it at the time - I doubt "he sounded like he was going fast" would hold up in court.

When I got tugged on embankment they took photographs of me and the bike, took tons of details, and told me at the side of the road they were going to report me to the cps or whatever it is they say - Basically that I'd get a letter in the next six months. If they had evidence of you doing 100mph in a 40 zone, I'd expect you'd have gotten the same spiel.

Have you measured up the old plate?

https://www.peninsulamotorcycleforum.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/Legal-Motorcycle-Numberplate-Requirements.jpg
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 14:25 - 05 Nov 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
c_dug wrote:
Have you measured up the old plate?

Why?
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c_dug
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PostPosted: 14:29 - 05 Nov 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
Just curious if there was actually anything wrong with it, having seen the bike in question several times I don't recall ever thinking the plate looked small.
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el_oso
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PostPosted: 14:37 - 05 Nov 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
They did say they had evidence of me speeding. They explained that they had followed me for over 3/4 of a mile with the dashcam running while I was disappearing from their view while they were doing 70mph. I can't say that I believe this one bit, but I'm not willing to call their bluff.

Have not measured the plate yet. I know that it is smaller than the plates on all the other bikes, not by much, but it is. It might just about be compliant.

One thing that I find strange was I have recieved no rectification letter. Isn't it usual practice to get one of these?
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Previous: '05 XR125L | '96 XJ600S Diversion |'05 Suzuki GSXR1000 | '05 Honda CBR125-R | '97 YZF 600R Thundercat | '11 Honda CBR250
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 15:07 - 05 Nov 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
el_oso wrote:
They did say they had evidence of me speeding.

70+ in a 40?

The coppers are either going to pass the speeding / careless / dangerous charge to the CPS or they aren't. You'll either get a summons for it some time in the next 6 months, or you won't.

What they're they're not going to be doing is regularly checking for the next few months to see whether you've paid the bribe for the plate, and only then deciding whether to pass the other charge(s) on to the CPS.


el_oso wrote:
Have not measured the plate yet.

And there's no point in doing so. What will matter is their evidence or "expert opinions" about what was on the bike at the time you were stopped.

I suggest that your decision about whether to pay or knock back the plate FPN should be made in isolation, and based only on whether you reckon the CPS will (competently) prosecute that matter.
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Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike
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