How important is getting riding experience before DAS?

[annarach]

I'm just becoming interested in motorbikes and have a few somewhat rambling questions.

Any thoughts on how preferable it would be to buy a 125cc bike before embarking on DAS? I'm debating whether to buy one to ride now and then sell it afterwards, whether to hire one for a week beforehand, or whether to wait until I get a full licence so that I have more options. I have no riding experience other than the CBT and quite like getting round by bicycle for commuting and shorter distances, but would like the option of a motorbike for longer distances. I did my CBT with Off the Kerb in London and I'm likely to do my DAS with them as I live locally and liked them.

Any recommendations for where to look for a learner bike if I opt to practice beforehand? Specifically I'd be interested in something that would be likely to retain its resale value.

Parking - how likely is theft? I live in Kensington.

I likely have questions about gear too (so far I've only bought a secondhand Axo goretex jacket and pants), but I'll first take a look at existing posts on newbie gear.

[NJD]

[UncleFester]

People seem to say that having passed DAS, they wish they'd gone directly to it. Once i had the benefit of my own experience, that's what i'd also say. You don't have that experience to rely on until you have the experience yourself, so .....

Depends how quickly you want to progress to the option of a 'big' bike.

If you have a week free,- book a week long course for whatever it costs and get it done and dusted.

If you want to see whether or not you like it first, take yourself for a 'Get on' session. Details here https://www.geton.co.uk/ to see how you 'get on'
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2017 Z1000SX

[Holdawayt]

I did things a little differently.

When I was 21 you could still do your A licence. So I started my lessons and passed MOD 1. Then they changed the laws so that you could only have an A2 licence at 21 and that I'd have to wait 3 years before I could complete the A licence.

I decided to wait and do the full licence at 24 so I had 3 years to kill. Decided to buy a little 125 and ride that around for a year before my 24th. This did both good and bad. I picked up some bad habits such as using the rear brake too much (front brake was knackered) and I was a bit excessive with my shoulder checks. It did help with my confidence though. Bike control and filtering weren't a problem on my DAS and it helped massively.

[someotherguy]

[Rogerborg]

[wr6133]

Do whatever licence you can for your age (assuming 19+), there is feck all point wobbling about on L plates anymore.

The whole point of starting on a 125 used to be that you could get a CBT, ride around on it for a bit and then book your tests yourself, arrive on your 125 and wobble about till you passed then ride for 2 years on a 33BHP restriction till licence auto upgraded to a Firebusa Ninjablade 1400RRRRRRRRR.

It was more about being cheap than actually "gaining experience". £100 on a CBT, similar on the licence tests and if pikey enough well under a grand on a 125 and insurance. As opposed too forking out £700+ on a DAS course and still needing to buy and insure a bike after that.

Now you can't test on a 125 (or if you do you are limited to only riding a 125), there really isn't much point.

[wednesday]

I'm doing my DAS with no previous experience (except falling off years ago). The 125 I did my CBT on and the 650 I'm doing my DAS on handle really differently, so I decided against getting a 125 to practice on. Plus I pick up bad habits very quickly.
I'm doing a 20hr DAS course and its enough to learn what I need & pass my tests (well unless I mess them up), then I will book an extra session or two with my instructor once I've got my own bike to do a bit more advanced stuff.

[pinkyfloyd]

For the most part it is possible and practical to go straight into DAS. If you got on fine with the 125 on the CBT there is no reason not to go straight to DAS. Sometimes it is more practical for the instructor to recommend serving some time on a 125 just to get the experience of being on the road.
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illuminateTHEmind wrote: I am just more evolved than most of you guys... this allows me to pick of things quickly which would have normally taken the common man years to master
Hockeystorm65:.well there are childish arguments...there are very childish arguments.....there are really stupid childish arguments and now there are......Pinkfloyd arguments!
Teflon-Mike:I think I agree with just about all Pinky has said.

[Val]

Hello and welcome to the BCF

[trevor saxe-coburg-gotha]

[daifuco]

A 600 is not ridden that differently than a 125. After failing the DAS mod1 I bought my cones and I spent a few hours practicing on my own and my 125. When It was time to retake the mod1 I nailed it on a bandit.

But keep in mind, most 600 are very easy to ride with care, most 4inline have a mild spirit under 7k revs, you just have to learnt to give gas, applying pressure rather than twisting the grip, and of course clutch control. With that in hand skipping the 125 makes sense.

But it is a very personal thing. I preferred to go the long way and get a 125, im nearly 40 and I was not very confident with my skills. Thanks to the confidence gained on the 125 I dediced to get a Hornet rather than the CB 500 F I was considering before.
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CBF125 - CB600F Hornet '12

[Moif]

Horses for courses.

I spent a full year on my 125. First half wanging it about everywhere then second half actually paying attention to the road getting ready for my DAS.

There is a world of difference in weight, obviously, and the handling on a bigger bike is so much better. I tried to practice the slow ride on the 125 and I would have been better off trying it on 5 Jagerbombs it was that wobbly. On the XJ6 it was smooth as silk.

Like the other guys here I preferred time on the 125. I doubt I could do the DAS straight out. Apart from the fact I wasn't in a hurry to get it done, it gave me the confidence I needed.

[pikey666]

I bought a cheap 125 and rode it for 8 months before going for my das. I sold the 125 for the same amount that I bought it for.
I did my das with the art of motorcycling in Newcastle who did one assessment ride and put me in for mod1 the next day, mod2 the day after and then refunded me for the 2 unused days, top service.
I found that the time on the 125 allowed me to concentrate on the maneuvers for mod1 and mod2 was just a regular (cautious) ride.

[SuperMike]

I think if I were coming at this new again, I would have just got on with it, done a DAS and brought a big bike. I initially brought a 125 scooter as all I wanted to do was go to work and back for pennies. The scooter is absolutely king for this. 6 quid a week in petrol for 120 miles of commuting. Comfortable, fast, just an awesome way to get about town.

However, as the years went on, I got the bug. I redid my CBT after two years and felt like then I should have just done the test, but I didn't have my theory test passed and therefore couldn't. To cut a long story short, got knocked off scooter a few months back, bike written off, now is the time to upgrade.

I got the hang of gears very quickly. Guess some won't, but for me having driven a car for 20 plus years, the concept of the clutch was second nature. I don't think in this respect that riding an auto scooter was a disadvantage, but I guess I could have been smoother had I ridden a geared bike for those years.

Anyway, here I am with my full bike license and a brand new 650. Loving life and wish I had done it sooner as mentioned.

As for bike theft, well this is probably the biggest reason I am glad I got a scooter first. My bike (as per the separate thread) has been vandalised so much I have lost count. It has been stolen once. This was partly my fault - locked up with a cheap chain and the chavs went through it in seconds. I would say that in Kensington (not far from me) there is a damn good chance you will suffer a theft or some sort of vandalism. It is not a reason to get a new bike however - I got an entire replacement panel set from Thailand for £120.

I'm rambling a bit now. In short, given you state you have an interest in motorbikes, I would get on with booking the theory test and DAS now. You can mess around on a geared 125 for a few years, but you will just get bored and look at the big bikes speeding away from the lights. If all you ever wanted to do was commute to work and back, get a scooter and join the other blokes in suits heading around the south circular.

[Silver_Fox]

Another shout here for getting straight onto the big bike. I practiced the Mod 1 cones section on a 125 and was wobbly, then was swapped straight onto a 650 Gladius and immediately found the heavier bike easier to handle. You know it makes sense

[Harlin67]

I'd agree with the bad habits comments, likely to pick up some if you're using a 125 for a while. I'd go straight for a bigger bike if I could do my time again, but then I needed mine for my job, so I've had to pretend I'm on a big bike until I eventually pass MOD2 ;p

[stevo as b4]

I don't think or suggest you need any prior experience for doing DAS over doing a 125cc test and riding a tiddler for a while. I do agree with the idea of not having any road riding experience at all is good, as you can learn the right way for the tests from scratch and it makes the job of the DAS instructor easier too.

Points id make though are:

1, There is nothing wrong with being 24 or over and deciding to start on a 125cc bike, or pass a 125cc test or mod whatever it is, (I don't have a clue how the current system works). If a 125cc is all you want or need, then do the appropriate tests and ride one. There's some BCF'ers that think your sub human scum if your old enough to learn to ride a bigger bike, and yet only want a 125cc bike or a little ride to work commuter. Some bikers will never ride for pleasure, just as a means of A-B, and it's hard for some to grasp that.

2, I think the only thing prior experience is good for is a CBT though. I'm horrified by the number of people totally green on CBT day, and spend a day trying to learn the controls and how to start or stop and control a bike.

In my day, nearly all kids had had either off road riding experience or illegal street riding experience on anything from a step through moped, to a YZ250. I can't imagine turning up for a CBT and not knowing which lever on a bike does what, or how to use a clutch and gearbox.

I was told off on my CBT for using two fingers on the lever's, but having done 5years of school boy trials and also a bit of MX, it felt natural. I still think it's infinitely better on a CBT to know how to confidently operate a motorbike, and have a few bad habbits flagged up or corrected, than spend or waste a day trying to learn the controls and how to start and stop.

[Silver_Fox]

[alekc]

I went through the route of getting 125, riding it every single day for commute for couple of months and then going to DAS.

The good:

* I learned how bike works (with relatively cheap 125 you can do your maintenance without worrying of destroying something).
* I learned how to handle bike in all conditions, no issues on mod1 or mod2.
* I've been able to cut down expenses linked to tfl rip off.

The bad:

* You collect a lot of bad habits, and I mean a LOT. While doing your test you will need to remember that you are NOT commuting, and you need to behave

From financial point of view it's tough, because if you are commuting you will not loose money on 125. Also I've been able to find really cheap instructor in East London who was offering short DAS for people who already have extensive (more than a month) experience of riding geared 125 for 400quid. I failed mod2 twice (speeding & encounter first time and turn right, missing indicator second) so at the end I spent around 620 pound (doing mod2 3 times). Which is still good price compared to doing DAS without any experience.

[annarach]

Many thanks for the advice (and apologies for taking so long to reply). I went for direct access with no further practice and was very happy with that approach. The instructors for the DAS were great, and I was glad to get good advice from the beginning and have my bad habits caught early. I would have felt like a complete liability on the road riding a 125cc after only doing CBT, so I really liked having guidance and supervised experience in the beginning. I passed mod 1 and 2 first time, so now am looking forward to test rides and deciding which bike to get.

[pdg]

Well done...


... for not following a huge herd and getting a 125 'for practice'.

I have an intense dislike of the whole 125 'thing', so much so that I skipped it - and that was when you weren't allowed a test on anything other than a 125 no matter your age.

If you decide you want a small bike, get a 250 - anything smaller is pointless unless you're not old enough (boo hiis new licence) for anything else.
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Any and all advice given should not be followed - if you have to ask it means you don't know so get a man in to do it for you.

[techathy]

I think a lot of people forget what the test is for. It's to prove you have basic level of competency on the roads & do not put yourself or others in unnecessary danger. 20-30 hours should be enough to get the required skills.

The rider training school I went to basically said do the DAS course to pass your test. If you're not confident with your riding after your test then come back & they'll teach you real world riding skills.

[NJD]

Congrats on the pass.

Pictures when you find a bike you like.

[Polarbear]

Excellent, Well done
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