Are advanced riders any safer?

[C1REX]

Hi,

I wonder how safer is a rider who passed an advanced test.
Are there any statistics showing that?
Insurance companies seems to don't care as the discounts is probably smaller than IAM membership fee.
Many insurance companies don't even offer any discounts to IAM members.
Is there any hard proof other than feeling of being safer?
Or maybe improved speed kills the benefits of better positioning and observation?

Kris
____________________
MCForum meetup - One of the biggest motorcycle clubs in UK

[stevo as b4]

I'm not sure that's the right question TBH.

I would say for nearly any road rider, but especially ones that don't cover huge mileages in all weathers that some advanced training could be a good move, but then so would things like having a track day on your own bike to find out about it's limits and how it handles when pushed and get more familiar with finding the limits of grip and speed.

I see no need to pass a test or join a club/association, or how it would greatly benefit you over having a day or so advanced riding lesson with a decent instructor that's there you help and advise you, not mould you for a test or special badge etc.

[Andy_Pagin]

Almost by definition someone who takes an advanced course is going to be a safer than average rider to start with, so you could argue that instead of an advanced course resulting in a safer rider it's actually the case that a large number of safer riders happen to have taken an advanced course.

Shit I'm starting to sound like Sir Humphrey Appleby.
____________________
They're coming to take me away, ho-ho, hee-hee, ha-haaa, hey-hey,
the men in white coats are coming to take me away.
Yamaha Vity -> YBR125 -> FZS600 Fazer -> FZ1-S Fazer

[Fizzer Thou]

Someone that I know (I will not call him a friend) has passed both the car and motorcycle IAM tests.

But,having been a passenger in his car and having followed him while on our sportbikes,I would not say that he was a better driver/rider.In fact I would go so far as to say that he should not have passed either,as certain moves that he has made I would not have done.

In my 40 years of riding motorbikes I have been asked if I have ever had any advanced riding lessons or instruction,to which I say that I have not.Every day is different and I learn from those experiences.
____________________
Just talk bikes.What else is there?

Always have a 'Plan B'

[chickenstrip]

I've never done any kind of advanced rider course myself, but it occurs to me that the different bodies offering such courses seem to give conflicting advice from what I've seen of discussions here and elsewhere, so who's to say if one is more right than another? And if one is right, are the others wrong, or more pertinently, one safe and others not safe?

I think it largely depends on the individual, advance qualified or not. You can do as many courses as you like, but if you like to wind that throttle open on the road (and plenty of advanced-qualified riders seem to), you're still taking risks you don't need to. And some folks will better understand what they're being taught than others, I would guess.

So I would say that possibly advanced rider training gives you the potential to be a safer rider. It's up to you what you do or don't do with that training.
____________________
Chickenystripgeezer's Biking Life (Latest update 19/10/18) Belgium, France, Italy, Austria tour 2016 Picos de Europa, Pyrenees and French Alps tour 2017 Scotland Trip 1, now with BONUS FEATURE edit, 5/10/19, on page 2 Scotland Trip 2 Luxembourg, Black Forest, Switzerland, Vosges Trip 2017
THERE'S MILLIONS OF CHICKENSTRIPS OUT THERE!

[Rogerborg]

Comparison against the general riding population is pointless because of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-selection_bias

Since we're off the statistical significance charts I'll fire in by noting that 100% of the three IAM and police drivers that I know are massively overconfident menaces who shouldn't have a fishing license.
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike

[MCN]

In mitigation, it could be assumed that riding with more experienced riders who have 'good roadcraft' will probably rub off on less experienced riders.

Baaat if the Mentors are Mental then not much will be learned that is considered safe.

The IAM are considered 'safer' in general, purely because they study their road technique to a higher level than some nutter attempting to emulate Marquoh Markezey and who only reads Fast Bikes.

I still won't sign up to IAM as I they probably couldn't keep up with me on an observed ride.
____________________
Disclaimer: The comments above may be predicted text and not necessarily the opinion of MCN.

[Teflon-Mike]

What makes me a good or better mechanic?

Having more spanners, or a posher brand name stamped on the handle; the know-how to use them, or a bit of paper that says passed a 'course' at my local tech?

Principles of advanced riding, are just 'tools'.. and just like I can use my spanners to turn a heap of old scrap into a show-piece motorcycle... or I can use them to turn a show-piece motorcycle into a heap of scrap... the tools are just tools, and might help me in achieving my goals, they might not, its all down to how I CHOOSE to use them.

Training, advanced or otherwise, wont make peoples choices for them... might suggest different choices, and could encourage them to make choices they wouldn't, for better or worse, but it still wont make them choices for them, and its the choices we make that decide our safety.
____________________
My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?'

[Pie-Roe]

I have Grade A advanced of some kind and ROSPA silver and sometimes I ride like a prick, sometimes I ride like a sensible person.

Sometimes I also ride when I've been at work for 18 hours, which is probably worse than riding drunk.
____________________
Previous: GSF600, FZR600 x2, ZXR750, XT600 Tenere, CB125, CZ125, ETZ 250, ER5, CCM R30, DRZ400, RF600x4, RF900x2, GS500, VTR1000F, 640 SMC, CB250 NIGHTHAWK, GT550x3, GPX750 TE610, CB500, X11x2, SV650, ZING 125, TL1000R,CB250 Superdream, CBR1100XX

[Undinist]

I've never knowingly met an IAM member but I'm so certain that they are all smug, boring cocks that when I decided to do the IAM test I just read the book and decided not to have any check rides or lessons or go to any meetings. The test was really hard, the examiner had a beard and I overtook as much as I could and passed somehow. The examiner said it was fun. The moral of my story is that an IAM badge doesn't necessarily count for anything.
____________________
Current bike: K1100RS. Previous: CD200, GSX250, GT550, VFR750, K100LT, K1100LT, R1100GS, R1150GS, ZZR1100, Hayabusa, RSV Mille, MV F4 750S, R1, ZX-10, KTM Adventure 950S

[techathy]

Regardless of how much risk they taken on the roads I've found RoSPA & IAM advanced drivers & riders tend to have more awareness of the risks they're taking and better situational awareness/planning. Does that make them safer? Probably but how much of that is the training & how much is the correct personality type is up for debate.

[redeem ouzzer]

The ones I've followed have been pretty slow.

[chickenstrip]

[techathy]

[Rogerborg]

[techathy]

[chickenstrip]

[techathy]

[Rogerborg]

I'm going to go with... a very specialist prostitute?
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike

[Ste]

[Val]

[andys675]

my local IAM members are always writing their bikes off
____________________
Some people feel the rain, others just get wet.

[Vincent]

Safer? Ja.

Enjoying themselves being told how to ride? Nein.
____________________
Space Is Deep

[trevor saxe-coburg-gotha]

[esullivan]

I have a RoSPA silver and have done a couple of rideouts with the local group. I would say the proportion of safe and unsafe riders in that group is probably about the same as the general population, all other things being equal. That last bit is important. RoSPA/IAM certified people tend to be older, at the very least, and probably differ in lots of other ways from general population (education, income, whatever).

In other words, if you took a two groups of riders of a similar age, income, education, annual mileage, etc., where the only difference is whether they have an IAM or RoSPA cert, the difference in accident rates would probably be nil, or statistically close enough to nil to not matter.

The real danger with these certificates is believing the hype -- that it makes you an above-average rider -- and riding accordingly. There are definitely a few of these in my local group. If I were an insurance company, I would investigate whether they should be charged more...
____________________
Current: '14 VFR800X Test passed 31/10/12.
Previous: '12 NC700S, '11 CBF 125, '04 SH 125.