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BBR
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PostPosted: 14:50 - 01 Dec 2015    Post subject: Professional advanced training Reply with quote

Just been looking at several 'professional' advanced training options a lot of which seem to be offered by retired/ex Police riders and it seems pretty common theme that they are all pretty quick to put down IAM and RoSPA observers and tutors.

Got me thinking though some of these are run by people who have retired from the Police force many years ago so whilst they are pretty quick to knock IAM and RoSPA observers how do they ensure their skills remain up to date and how they are checked? As I see it IAM and RoSPA observers go on regular updates and continually improve but dont know how professionals do.
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G
The Voice of Reason



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PostPosted: 15:16 - 01 Dec 2015    Post subject: Re: Professional advanced training Reply with quote

So, someone offering a service for a fee is quick to knock another organisation that offers a similar service at not too far off cost-price? Thinking

Smile

So, err... they have a regular assessment of their abilities and typically receive full marks... every morning, standing in-front of the mirror Razz.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 15:32 - 01 Dec 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only police rider that I'm aware of knowing responds to "why?" in the same way that a normal person would respond to having tabasco sauce squirted up their urethra.

It's a small sample set, but I find it instructive.
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MCN
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PostPosted: 15:43 - 01 Dec 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

2p worth:

Ex Po-Po rider instruction is probably as useful or even more useful as some of the info/help for biking found on the net.

It entirely depends on how much it costs and how much you you can afford.

You pays your money.

It probably wouldn't do any harm. Smile

If the instructor is a retired/ex PoPo rider then, based on experience from the PoPo riders I have met and 'got along with' they will more than likely offer professional and unbiased advice. (Not counting the Po-Po Rider who measured my rear tire on the TWI Rolling Eyes )
Primarily one would like to hope these things are aimed at genuinely improving rider safety/effectiveness. Although the caveat being there will also be those who just want to make a killing. (no pun)

There are similar things run by bike training schools/centres but there is no guarantee the help offered there is better or less than this 'private' one-to-one training.
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Last edited by MCN on 15:47 - 01 Dec 2015; edited 2 times in total
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MCN
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PostPosted: 15:45 - 01 Dec 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
having tabasco sauce squirted up their urethra.


Shocked


Is this an official UK Home Office interrogation method? Thinking
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iooi
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PostPosted: 16:17 - 01 Dec 2015    Post subject: Re: Professional advanced training Reply with quote

BBR wrote:
As I see it IAM and RoSPA observers go on regular updates and continually improve but dont know how professionals do.


So just who trains the IAM or RoSPA lot then?

At some point there is a so called god (well they think so) that everybody has to take advice from... So who trains them?

Yer pay's yer money and takes yer chance.....
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BBR
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PostPosted: 17:29 - 01 Dec 2015    Post subject: Re: Professional advanced training Reply with quote

iooi wrote:
BBR wrote:
As I see it IAM and RoSPA observers go on regular updates and continually improve but dont know how professionals do.


So just who trains the IAM or RoSPA lot then?

At some point there is a so called god (well they think so) that everybody has to take advice from... So who trains them?

Yer pay's yer money and takes yer chance.....


I know what your saying.

Just seems the so called professionals rely on old outdated info they learnt as Police riders.
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chris-red
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PostPosted: 17:55 - 01 Dec 2015    Post subject: Re: Professional advanced training Reply with quote

iooi wrote:
?

At some point there is a so called god (well they think so) that everybody has to take advice from... So who trains them?



Genuinely, my dads mate Keith Laughing

He trained coppers, and when I last spoke to him told me he had been asked to help devise a RoSPA Platinium.

According to my Dad, he raced in the 60's and 70's, he run rings round people in the fast group track days on his R1200GS. When I met him the bike was 5 years old and he had put over 100k on it, he works a 5 minute walk from home too Laughing
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 18:20 - 01 Dec 2015    Post subject: Re: Professional advanced training Reply with quote

chris-red wrote:
Platinium

Sounds awsium.
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chris-red
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PostPosted: 18:25 - 01 Dec 2015    Post subject: Re: Professional advanced training Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
chris-red wrote:
Platinium

Sounds awsium.


I thought you'd like that. Laughing
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Well, you know what they say. If you want to save the world, you have to push a few old ladies down the stairs.
Skudd:- Perhaps she just thinks you are a window licker and is being nice just in case she becomes another Jill Dando.
WANTED:- Fujinon (Fuji) M42 (Screw on) lenses, let me know if you have anything.
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G
The Voice of Reason



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PostPosted: 18:28 - 01 Dec 2015    Post subject: Re: Professional advanced training Reply with quote

chris-red wrote:

According to my Dad, he raced in the 60's and 70's, he run rings round people in the fast group track days on his R1200GS.
And he's 10' high and beat up Tyson Fury with one arm while using the other to correct some string theory equations for Stephen Hawking? Razz

Colour me sceptical, but while I could see it might be possible on the road biased GS to get a decent pace on, I'm not sure physics would allow 'run rings around' on that bike whatever the rider - top speed is pretty limited and I believe lean angle is limited too.
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chris-red
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PostPosted: 18:33 - 01 Dec 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't say I've never seen him on a track. I consider myself reasonably quick on the roads, he 2up pissed off with no trouble.
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Well, you know what they say. If you want to save the world, you have to push a few old ladies down the stairs.
Skudd:- Perhaps she just thinks you are a window licker and is being nice just in case she becomes another Jill Dando.
WANTED:- Fujinon (Fuji) M42 (Screw on) lenses, let me know if you have anything.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 19:23 - 01 Dec 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

chris-red wrote:
he 2up pissed off with no trouble.

Presumably he was riding to the limits of his bike, while you were riding to the road conditions.

That doesn't mean that he makes better decisions than you, just different ones.
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Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike
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G
The Voice of Reason



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PostPosted: 20:17 - 01 Dec 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Road riding and track riding are pretty different skills.

I'm confident enough that he wasn't just being nice to me when the IAM instructor way over 20st on a pan euro who happily disapeared off (with me on a CBR6) on the road suggested the situation would have been reversed on track.
However good a rider, I'd expect your average fast group rider be close enough to the limits of a sports bike for that to be past the limits of a 1200GS.
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esullivan
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PostPosted: 13:55 - 02 Dec 2015    Post subject: Re: Professional advanced training Reply with quote

BBR wrote:
Just been looking at several 'professional' advanced training options a lot of which seem to be offered by retired/ex Police riders and it seems pretty common theme that they are all pretty quick to put down IAM and RoSPA observers and tutors.

Got me thinking though some of these are run by people who have retired from the Police force many years ago so whilst they are pretty quick to knock IAM and RoSPA observers how do they ensure their skills remain up to date and how they are checked? As I see it IAM and RoSPA observers go on regular updates and continually improve but dont know how professionals do.


I used both RoSPA and a professional post-test trainer (survivalskills.co.uk) before I took my RoSPA test in the autumn. I had a few paid lessons at the same time I was doing regular observed rides with a couple of different observers.

The combination worked well for me. The trainer, Kevin (at Survival Skills), emphasized the reasons behind The System and where it makes sense to deviate. He also focused much more on individual skills, like cornering and braking. The two RoSPA observers I used, on the other hand, were quite focused on getting me to pass the test, so it was The System all the way, but because of the lessons I was able to absorb what they were saying better and apply it sensibly.

I'm very slow learner, though, so someone else might have done fine with just one or the other. It was the three different voices, all explaining things to me in three different ways, that finally got through. Well, sort of. I still suck, but I think I'm safer than before the lessons/observed rides.
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