CB125 TDC smoking from right cylinder

[Ollie125]

Hi All,

just finished a top end rebuild of my cb125tdc (re-bored to .5mm with new pistons and rings to match). Started to run it in (only done about 15miles) keeping it under 5k, but the right hand cylinder is smoking quite badly. Cant think will that would be- especially as it has new rings etc? Any advice would be welcome. Many thanks,
Ollie

[Ste]

It is 'odd' for an air-cooled engine to make white 'steam' smoke:
Blue = Oil
Black = Fuel
White = Water
But it isn't unheard of.. as said, most will do it on start up, when condensation in the cold exhaust is still being boiled off..... you say you get it 'constantly' but, can take a while for an air-cooled engine to get hot.. especially a little-one, only ridden short journeys, slowly.... But, are other more or less obscure reasons...

So Silly question... you didn't wash it, before, during or after doing the oil-change by any chance?... could you have got water up the exhaust pipe, or in the air-boxes?

Next silly suggestion... been raining a lot lately... when sat on my bike and moving I cant actually see whats coming out the exhaust pipe.... I can only tell that when I start it up on the stand and walk behind it, or I put it on the stand and leave it running and walk behind it... it's not water boiling off the outside of the exhaust you are observing, by any chance is it?

What about rain-water dripping down between the tank and seat and into the air-box, or something....

A-N-D finally... are you SURE it's white smoke.. not pale blue oil-smoke?

In which case... post oil change.. my first reaction is to ask how you measured the new oil in? Do you have a 'rest threads' dip-stick, or a screw to check dip-stick? sight glass? Or add by measureing cylinder? did you get the engine warm before taking the sump plug out to drain old oil, to get it warm and thin and flowing freely... after filling with new oil, did you let it settle and then run the engine for a minute or so to warm up the new oil and pump it round the engine.. and if so, did you then let it settle before checking the level again... oil gets chucked up to the top of the engine when it runs, and takes a while to drip back down...

Getting to the point... did you over-fill the little bugga?

'cos if you have just siezed it from low oil, I would imagine its quite likely you are more than a tad paranoid of making sure it has enough of the stuff....

But, crank-case normally has a vent-pipe to the air-box, so that as the engine heats up, and oily air expanding out of it, gets sucked into the engine to be burned, off.. of course, if the crank-case is over filled, THEN it can start pumping excess oil into the air-box, making the engine smoke...... worth checking?

We cant do diagnosis by voodoo and 'bikes a bit slow' doesn't really give us much to go on!
Check inlet rubbers & manifold gaskets; that's a known bug-bear. rubbers perish & get torn by improper carb removal, gaskets & o-rings often don't get replaced, while bolts that clamp it all up are a pita to get at and do up evenly to ensure a good seal.
Then there is the notorious carb balancing, and on these, the infamous choke link to sync.
Next; post top end rebuild; Barrel & head are on VERY low torque studs. 16NM off top of my head; lower than the first number on most 'work-shop' torque wrenches, and very easy to strip a stud if you do up a work-shop tQ-Wrench to 'sixteen' somethings! There's also the valves, which on a top-end rebuild would usually benefit from a re-grind or lap to get them sealing properly. If not done, valves dont seal, biuke runs crap. Cam-timing is also critical, and easy to get wrong, and can shift when you clamp down the cam-caps to torque up the cylinder head & barrel. Tappet clerances are also bludy small and easily set to the wrong gap, with an imperial feeler, or a .25 instead of .025 etc; Piston rings can also get snagged when fitting pistons...... did you lube everything up with two-stroke or light oil on rebuild before starting it up? Have you done enough 'gentle' running to burn that all off? Havew you cleaned the plugs since burn-in? Are the plug threads stripped?.... Raft of potential 'faults' that can be created in a top-end rebuild is long, and this could be caused by any number of them... a compression test would be a good start.
Also exhausts; a lot of presumed carb-faults aren't; they are in a rotten or badly modded exhaust pipe; check for holes in the header; incorrectly seated exhaust gasket; leaking exhaust gasket (re-used old one perhaps), big holes in the silencer by the hanger bracket and loose baffles in the muffler.
Ought to give you some targets to start looking at... but, its any-ones guess really; if you have taken half an engine apart it could be that hasn't 'fixed' original problem, could be you have made a problem... and we don't have the bike at to prod & poke to find problems, only you do.

'Swapped Coils'? That's curious; most CM's only have one. Implies you have one of the last ones that have the CB125TD-J derivative engine with 180 crank..... most have the CM engine with 360 crank; but with almost 1/4 century continuous production, with the same basic motor there are an AWFUL lot of revisions and upgrades between fist 6v points ignition, kick-start, and last,12vCDi and e-start examples! So telling us the year could be helpful.

ANYWAY, that aside.... 'Runs' on one or 'Idles' on one?
These little motors are quite wont to start up on just one pot and will idle roughly with one dropping out; it's very common.

There's two factors at play here; and the first is that it's a incredibly short stroke engine; 43x41 dimensions for 62cc a pot, that 41m stroke is actually shorter than a C50 moped's; means very low piston speeds for any given rpm; feature that let the air-cooled, two-valve twin-carb variant in the CB125 rev to an astonishing 14,ooo rpm. BUT means that at low rpm you don't get as much 'suck'.... the vacuum pulling charge to the pot, depends on the speed of the piston falling; so, at low, starting rpm, these engines will tend to be a bit loath to drag a full measure of charge to the cylinder; if the tappets are out of adjustment, the rings or bore a bit worn (and they have very thin rings, and don't need to be very 'worn' just a tad 'blunted' on the corners to loose both compression and 'suck'), and or the valve seats are a bit worn or pitted.... then, starting, idle and low speed running can all be a bit 'fluffy' .

Second factor is the 'Self Exited Ignition'; electric for the sparks is made in the generator, and fed direct and unregulated to the ignition, whether CDi or points; So you only get sparks when the crank is turning, and 'good' sparks when the crank is turning quick enough to 'energise' the CDi. A tired battery or lazy starter, can make a big difference to easy starting on these engines, but once they have caught, if the idle is low, then they are prone to sparks dropping out; may see them in free air, but under pressure in the pot, they just dot have the juice behind them to jump.

BUT... once warmed,and off-choke, rev-em up, they usually 'clear' and with the motor under load, and spinning at drivig rpm's, often ride fine, though maybe a bit fluffy at idle at lights or give ways and such.

Which begs more diagnosis, when you say 'runs' on one, and talk about it idling; have you ridden it? Does it clear under load and revs? And, ridden, what does it ride like; 'cos that will give clue as to whether there is any more worry-some problem to look into, than just a lumpy one-pot idle, that is lkely to go away by doing the tappets and setting the idle above 'drop out' revs.. about 1ooo-1,2oo if you have a tacho.

Otherwise, as said, quite common; and even a good'n, on a cold morning is prone to it, and I tend to wait until I'm getting smoke out of both pipes before I try riding up the road!

Use the revs, not the gears!
This is VERY common 125's when Learner, 'short shifts',and is in 'top'gear before 50mph... the bike has the power at those low revs to hold 50, but not enough spare to accelerate. You have to change down a gear to get the revs up, where the engine is making more power, then, when you have got the road speed up, and the engine revs up, so that when you change up again, the revs don't fall down so low, you are out of the power again.
Use the revs not the gears...making unnecessary 'up-shifts' is just making work for yourself, making them, AND the consequential 'unnecessary' down shifts to slow back down again, when, you could, in a lower, more responsive gear, do it ALL on the throttle.
Does the CBR have six gears? 5 or 6, though Top will almost certainly be an 'over-drive' gear; the ratio will be too tall, for the speed the bike can go with the power it has; you use it, to drop the revs back for ore relaxed cruising, or to eek out a little extra speed on a long hill or with a tail wind or something. Forth or fifth will be your usual gear for going fast, and then, only when you are on roads where you aren't likely to have to change gear very often.
I have CB125 Twins; they have a five speed box, but, I'll use 1st almost oly to pull away; its a very low gear, ad low enough to not make the bike labour, should I have to do a hill-start on a steep hill, with a pillion passenger... o the flat, I could probably pull away 2nd, but, it would n't be any smoother, so I don't. Tops out at about 20mph in 1st, so I am chaging up to 2nd almost as soo as I am moving at more than a brisk walking pace; 2nd will then take me to around 30mph, so 'round the houses', in 20/30 limit urban areas, where I am probably riding along short stretches of residetial housing, with potential for cars backig off drives, kids kicking balls in the road etc, where there's cul-de-sacs ad juctions every twenty yards, ad I am probably gong to have to change speed to negotiate a give way, or stop,LITTLE point changing 'up', makig work for myself, to go up, and come back down, and to deny myself of what little throttle 'response' the bike has, JUST because I have a lever there and so think I ought to do something with it, or so it does't SOUND like I am making the engine 'scream'... Out in the traffic flow, in town? Again, 20-30ish limit, junctios are likely to be further apart, ad traffic is likely to be flowig a little faster, here 3rd gear becomes the 'mother of all work'.. gives me the throttle response to slow to as little as 15mph ad still have some 'oomph' to accelerate if I have to, but will pull to about 45-50 comfortably enough, if I wind it on. So I can do almost everything, in ONE gear, with as much 'response'; as I can have to do it all on the throttle, not making work for myself playing tunes on the gears, or unsettling the bike any with all the changes 'load' cloggig up ad down the box; its smoother, safer ad easier. AND saves wear ad tear on the bike! Once out of town, and onto 50ish roads, THEN I'll sick it up to 4th, if I am goig to hold that sort of road speed, and I'm not faced with so many 'hazards' by way of house drive ways, or side junctions etc likely make me have to change speed too dramatically too quickly, and on the 125 Twin, 4th will take me to about 65 at the red-line, almost as fast as the bike will go; so unlessI am on a duel carriageway of fast sweeping A-Road, I might 'eek' that bit extra from the thing on.. it'll probably stay in 4th; sknicking up to top will drop the revs back at 60+ and could carry me up to the bikes terminal velocity of a nadge over 70, in 'favourable conditions' but its a lot of effort for not a lot of gain.

Its a little bike, with little power, and what little power it does have, is mostly at the top of the rev range, you HAVE to use the full rev rage to get the best out of these little bikes, and you do have to work the gears, but not OVER work them.

So chances are theres nothing wrong with the bike, you just need to make it work for you, and use the revs not the gears.

As for the petrol? As has been said; there's nothing in higher octane petrol that will make your bike, as Hoda made it, go faster.

The octane rating of a fuel is merely a measure of how much cylinder compression it can stand before exploding, and doing damage to the engine, rather than burning and making useful motion. The cylinder compression is set by the volume of the combustion chamber above the piston, in relation to the displacement of the piston in the cylinder. Anf f Honda have fixed a compression ratio that s 'safe' for 94 Octane 'regular' petrol, then, 97 Octane 'premium' is't doing anything helpful for you.

Whether using a 'brad-name' fuel, which may or may not have a better formulation, with more or better 'detergents' in it that don't leave as many sot deposts and shit inside the engine... who knows...

As for 'Super-Market' petrol? Well, petrol does have a shelf life & goes stale with age; AND little known fact, but there are legal requirements for the sale of petroleum, and one of them is that for the UK there are two 'standards' for petrol; one for summer, and one for winter; ad retailers have to show they have swapped the 'blend' in their tanks twice a year, between set dates.

I suspect, as I have little but hearsay evidence to go from that a lot of the controversy or suggestion about 'Shit Supermarket'petrol, is simply super-marketing, stack it high and sell it cheap; and them buying whatever they a get the best price on at any one time; and that is likely to be 'old' petrol, nearing its sell by date; whether 'last seasons' mix, or this getting stale, or nearing its sell by date, rather than to do with any magic potions included in a 'Brand Name' Blend.

I have always advocated that Time on a Tiddler is rarely wasted; they are great training tools, and making the most of limited performance, and not having the weight and power to damp clumsiness they can be very good for instilling good rider discipline.

However; lessons is for life not just licences... and I always believed that an hours training when you first start is worth a day a year down the line; getting into good habbits before you develop any bad ones, and getting good know-how, that can save you hurt and harm falling off, when you are most likely to fall off, right at the beginning, gives you the most benefit of any training you do.

A 125 on L's can be a great compliment to that; and short 1 or 2 hour lessopns once a week for a couple of months after CBT, used to let you get a bit of learning in a bite sized chunk, go away, practice to your hearts content; get a bit of wider riding experience; exploring new roads, finding yourself in different weathers, or riding at night, or suddenly wondering how how people load bikes up with all the camping gear to go on a rally or 'something' as off the wall and not test related... and feed that back into the next lesson.

Meant that you could get a lot of learning from minimal lesson hours, and not all just about passing the test, but preparing for a lot more of what you might do with a bike, on a full licence.

BUT, modern licence regime, and training schemes dont tend to cater for it; its now very much driven by intensive short courses, on bigger bikes, you can only ride during a lesson till you pass.

These don't tend to instil the rider discipline you can get from a tiddler, or give such appreciation for a bigger bike, knowing what tiddlers are like, good and bad; and they tend to concentrate a lot more on what's needed to get a licence, and test tips; there's only so much you can 'cram' into a three day course, and so much that will stick, and 24 hours of saddle time; which has to include all your 'practice' cos you cant go away and do that on your own time, you have to have the isntructor with you to legally ride the thing.

Next.... DAS doesn't give you a 'big bike' licence, it gives you a 'ride what you like' licence. No one will take it off you if you dont instantly go out and buy a big bike.... and as a full licence holder having my licence for numerouse decades, I ride what I like... and that is often a 125... 70mph is as fast as anything is legally allowed to go in this country, they ent 'toys' they are very useful proper motorcycles, and they can be an awful lot of fun, and deliver very big grins for not a lot of money.

SO... heeding some warnings in there... its your call. But, first rule of biking; DONT RUSH... rushing be quick way to hurt on a motorbike.

You ent done your CBT yet... so dont sweat the small stuff, or try turning your corners before you get to them... tends to ride you into walls or through hedges that do Laughing

Do your CBT, talk to your instructor.. they will PROBABLY try signing you up for a DAS course, for various reasons; not least that being that's what they sell!

If you are enthused, and agree, its probably not a bad way to go, to get that early learning, PROVIDED you heed warnings its not the be-all and end all, and it is very scant training to get you a licence, And your early miles learning will all happen after, and pick the bike you like 'sensibly', remembering it could still be a 125... you'd be starting as you would on a 125 with L's with the head start of some learning, to proven standard behind you.

BUT, that's two corners ahead yet.. and what bike you might buy, one beyond that, riding it, yet another, post test training, yet another, and so on.

Here and now... just worry about that CBT, go enjoy it! It should be fun. Dont go looking for shit to worry about, when you dont need to, we have enough nasty shit to worry about as is, without adding to it.

If the rust is above the nominal travel of the suspension, then not a huge worry, provided the sock still damps... it probably doesn't, or at least not wonderfully well; but off the bike they are so fucking hard, you cant really tell bog all.

If It was a scrubber upper I just wanted to get through an MOT, and assembled, sat at decent ride height and did 'damp'... Probably live with it. Rust on rod will eventually chew seals out the damper and it will start pumping its oil out... at which point you have to get a new shock... but, since there's bugger all you can do with that one, as they are not rebuildable... if it 'works' get the life out of it.

Eagle eyed mot man would tend to be inclined to fail it for rust on damper rod... but he would have to have X-Ray vision to spot it, as long as the side panels and air-boxes are on, and they aren't allowed to remove anything for inspection.

However; IF you want to be contientiouse; ditch it. Pattern replacements are about £90, you dont need to stump up the £200 odd they charge for a Hagon or anything. New shock will damp, and will sit the bike at correct rear ride height.... IF all the bushes in the linkage working it are good... and little point fitting decent shock unless that IS done, and they are the weak link in teh super-dreams back end.

That sophisticated rising rate linkage, is the 'novelty' of the super-Dream, and was what gave it remarkeably 'sure' and nimble handling; BUT, theres Shit... I'm counting these in my fucking HEAD.... I REALLY need to restore something DIFFERENT some-time SOON!.... two in each swing arm leg, to wish-bone; two in the wish-bone to shock-arm. Two in the shock arm at the frame end...eight? 'split' bushes all in phenolic, all likely to have been completely neglected, siezed and or worn out.

Now, operation of that mono-shock, and the reason its so stiff, is that the linkage de-coupled suspension travel from damper travel; wheel axle has about four inches of movement, but linkage ratio means that the damper has barely an inch of travel. 'Rising rate' also means that the relationship between travel at the wheel isn't directly proportional to the damper travel; and for it to get stiffer the further the axle moves up, means that the initial suspension travel moved damper very little, for the first half of the suspension travel shiftes damper less than half way into the shock, and as suspension movement increases, so more damper rod is shoved into the shock body. Make sense?

Basically! means that the linkage magnifies any 'slop' in the bushes, and by more than the over all 4x ratio the linkage has over overall travel at the shock, and more so at the 'normal' ride height end. Compound slop in each link, and the back end can sag by half an inch or more at rest, more when you sit on it, and that tilt 'choperises' the steering geometry, making it very lazy, and at the same time rather wobbly, while the slop in the links can mean that wheel can 'flop about' undamped for quite a few mm of travel, particularly between going up and coming back down, and there is huge 'lag' in the back wheel being moved by bump and the damper getting shifted by it, as the slack is taken up.

An 'OK' Super-Dream rear suspension, you can feel is 'better' than the under-damped pog0-sticks on a CG or YBR or something... but a clapped out linkage and they are just horrible.

If you want to experience what a Super-Dream can and should handle like.... bite the bullet and rebush the linkage and swing arm, and fit new shock. It makes it a completely different motorcycle.

BUT, depends how much its worth to you. New shock is £90 and you can probably add as much again to that tab, for all the bushes and pins you'll need to fully overhaul the linkage.

If penies tight? Them bushes better target for your attension than the shock... but without bouncing it, on the bike I REALLY cannot say from a photo whether its good, bad, OK, or fucking horrible!

Pointless trying to set carbs up if the valves aren't fully opening or sealing... worse, dangerouse to even RUN the engine with tight tappets, as if the valves dont seat, they cant dump thier heat; likely to burn them out, and that even MORE likely if you haven't got the mixture set up.

PATIENCE
PERSEVERANCE
PUNCTUALITY... (Well, closest word I could find beginning with 'P' for doing stuff in at the right time in the right order!)

Remember, 'Random' and 'Rushing' be fast way to hurt on a motorbike... applies to fixing them as much as riding them; and if there's nothing you can do... there's nothing you can do... so don't anything, least of all something that might make matters worse 'just' to feel you are doing 'something' enjoy the brake.

They are useful. But, most common torque wrenches are yard-long 'high-range' wrenches covering the sort of torques you have to set on diesel engine cylinder head studs, or brake calliper mounting bolts. Useful if you are fixing head-gaskets or overhauling brake callipers...

Much more 'useful' but much less common, especially on a motorbike, is a 'low-range' 1/4 drive torque wrench; this covers the sort of 5-25Kg-m range that general 'non critical' fasteners fall into, like the ubiquitousness M6 (10mm Spanner) casing screw, used everywhere on motorbikes and everything else these days, and NOT so much to make sure that they are done up 'tight enough' but to make sure they aren't done up too much, and you start stripping threads out of alloy casings.

Topic of conversation yesterday actually with No3 Son; who was getting all over exited being allowed to play with a 125 Super-Dream and 'spanners', and when he reached for the socket set, getting told "NO! I said SPANNERS!", and arguing blind with me they were the same thing, followed by, "yeahbut" and bluster that sockets are 'easier'; leading to lecture on the merit of spanners and 'simple' hand tools.... you are now going to get.

If you are a socket jockey... and so many are these days... then a torque wrench is almost essential.... because with umpety moving parts and loose snap joints between the palm of your hand and the thing you are tightening, you have bog all 'feel' through the tool for it.

If you look at your spanners, the 6mm spanner has a handle that is maybe 2 1/2" long.. the 19mm spanner will have a handle that's perhaps 12" long.

'Torque' remember is force times leverage; so the different handle lengths on spanners are strategically the length they are, so that for the same 'palm pressure' you get the typical fastening torque for the size bolt you are doing up.

And, a single bit of metal; there's nothing else between your palm and the fastener, which you can see, in the jaw of the spanner... so you can see AND feel what's going on.

On usual 3/8 drive ratchet wrench you have a handle about as long as a 17mm spanner, but can have any sized socket on there, from maybe 6mm up to 19mm...

So you don't have the inherent 'palm pressure' torque sense a spanner offers, and you are far more likely to put two or three times the torque a small fastener needs onto it, through a handle as long as one for a fastener three times the size...

You also cant SEE the fastener in the socket.. so you dont know if the jaws are opening or the corners rounding, until the ratchet slips, or the socket splits!

And the force you are applying 'off-set' from the head by at least the height of the socket, if not an extension, so are applying torque in two axis to where its reacted.. making it harder to hold and twist and keep it straight

AND you have any slop and flex in all the moveable and de-mountable 'parts' between your palm and the fastener....

ALL conspiring to rob you of 'feel'.

So a torque wrench is 'more' essential to a socket-jockey, providing the 'feel' they dont have, with an artificial palm in the form of a snap-head!

WARNING: - when it comes to torque wrenches; ALWAYS CHECK THE UNITS.

1Kg-m is 10Nm, is 7 1/4 ft-lb.

As many fasteners are very accurately 'set' to the wrong torque with a torque wrench, than are very inaccurate set, closer to the right one, with a spanner!

I very memorably had to drive 250 miles when I was at college once to find out what one of my mates had done to his Morris Minor, to discover that he had tried to do up the 7/16AF screws holding the oil pump on with a yard long high range torque wrench, set 10x the torque in the book... I think it was something like 6Ft-Lb... but high range torque wrench didn't start that low, so he found the lowest 6 on the scale, which was 6Kg-m!

As has been said by others; no tool is a substitute for common sense.

you wont be able to get a filter on the carb on a single manifold, it will foul the mono-shock upper mount.

But no great worry; they ought to run pretty well 'open'. It wont screw the mixture THAT much on that engine. Just mean you'll get a bit more shit sucked in and your carb needle may wear out a bit faster and you might have to adjuste the tappets more frequently to allow for the higher rate of valve seat regression

What you got, with 360 lump and single carb is pretty much stock Benly set-up. It wont rev out like the Super-Dream anyway, due to soft cam; it'll top about 10K ish.

Mid-Range flat-out though?

1/ check the gaskets in the carb & manifold. The rubber O-Rings are NOT exactly unknown for going hard and not sealing. Use paper to be sure.

2/ That exhaust. I'm guessing it ent a new Motad? Probably be worth more than the bike if it is! So Second hand, and probably twenty years old.

Check the headers for pin-holes. Get brutal with the rotary wire They tend to go on the bends where metal stretched thinest; esp bottom bend where condensation collects and they rust from the inside.

Pin-holed header is garanteed to make motor run weak and rough and give symptoms you describe.

But while you are about it; crush washer gaskets; they are about 50p, get new ones. Leaks at the manifold are not good and these are rather notoriouse. Gaskets often get nipped up 'cock' in the rebates.

Bottom of headers, also prone to being dinged 'curbing' the thing. Dings dont tend to choke the flow enough to make bike run bad; but does take the chrome off, and leave score where they will rust through. From port to collector, make sure the pipe is whole, or these motors will never run well.

After that? Well... Have you checked the tappet clerances? And HAVE you checked the correctly? OTMH the tappet clerance is something rediculousely daftly thin, like 0.005" and they oft get set to 0.05" as people mis-read the noughts or presume a typo, or just dont have a feeler guage that narrow!

If them basics dont help?

Then my suspicion would be that the rings / bores shot. These motor's like tight rings, and when worn, they float and stop sealing at revs and under load.

I have to say I think that the old Motad 2:1 is probably the best pipe for the 125 Super-Dream, it's lighter, tidier and sounds a bit better than the Micron or twin-pipes... BUT, last time I spotted one, I think it was NOS, price was as much as many would pay for a whole BIKE! (ISTR it was in the £200-250 region) These little machines aren't highly valued. AND, I think where they may be credited with enough to deserve a new zorst... the more likely customer would probably prefer a pattern two-in-to-two; its the more 'original' and it underlined the fact the thing is a twin, a notable 'feature' of the model, and it makes it look like a bigger bike!

Snowie, who spent stupid money, renovating hers, shunned all the proffered polished two-into-one's I have knocking about for those exact reasons; and three years on.... well... the chitty-chinky-chrome on the headers has all but been worn away by solvol and a couple of winters, and she's grumbling incessantly about it! I think she'd be head over heels for a stainless system... EXCEPT... it's not chrome, and not twins, and if over £150... 'too expensive' [sigh]

I think that the pattern ones are (or were) about £65 a side, and while woefully short-lived.... on an old fixer-upper, as these tend to be, probably last as long as any-one is likely to persevere with one, or as long as the rest of their renovation is likely to remain tidy and serviceable.

Ignoring, slightly the Wankel reference; we're talking 'reciprocating-piston' engines; of which the major components are;
1/ a piston, that 'reciprocates'... goes up and down, driven by the expansion of hot gasses caused by burning a combustable 'charge' in
2/ A cylinder, a tube, sealed at the top, by a cylinder-head, and at the bottom by the afore mentioned piston. This sits over
3/ The Crank-Shaft; a shaft with a step in it, that goes round; and converts the upety-downy motion of the piston, into roundy roundy motion to turn cogs and wheels and stuff. Between piston and crank-shaft is..
4/ The Con-Rod. Basically a metal plate with two holes in it. One end hinges on the piston, other on the 'step' bit of the crank-shaft, connecting the two together, transmitting forces between them.
5/ Bearings. Little balls or bushes that help support bits that would rub on other bits; they 'bear' load. Usually one on either end of the con-rod; the 'little end' cos its usually smaller, at the piston end; One at the crank shaft end, known as the 'big-end' cos its generally bigger. Then there's one on either side of the step in the crank, known as the 'main' bearings.

Got all that? Oh-Kay, then. Onto the 'Otto-cycle'. Suck, squash, bang, blow. Four 'phases' of the internal combustion engine.

1/ Suck, or in technical tems 'Induction' - 'charge' the combustable mixture of fuel and air, has to some-how get sucked (or pushed - turbo or Super-Charging), into the cylinder.
2/ Squash, or technical 'Compression' - charge, once in the engine has to be squashed, or when you set it on fire, it jkust burns and tends not to make much pressure.
3/ Bang, in tech - 'Combustion' - pretty self explanatory; charge, once in the engine and squashed, has to be set on fire, to get stuff hot and make stuff move.
4/ Blow, tech 'Exhaust'; burned waste gases have to be dispelled from the engine, so it can do it all over again.

The 'Four-Stroke' engine, conveniently completes each 'phase' of the otto cycle on a seperate 'stroke' of the piston. Piston falls in the cylinder, sucks charge in. Goes back up, squashes it; pushed back down by being set on fire, then comes up, to blow it all out, and do it all again.

Which all depends on valves opening and closing at the right time to let the charge into the cylinder, and exhaust out; which introduces a new component... 6/ The poppet Valve and a bunch more, cam-shafts and the like to make them open and close at the right time, which I dont really want to go into to much detail on.

I also don't want to talk two strokes...in theory they shouldn't work. They have effing great holes in the cylinder wall instead of valves, to let charge in and out, and they get charge 'in' to the engine via the crank-case, which is sealed so it sucks charge in as the piston rises, and with nothing but holes in the piston matching or not with the holes in the cylinder to control the flow, OUGHT to blow the bludy charge back out the way it came, when the piston comes back down again! so they get complicated. As do Wankels.... so we shall stick to the four-stroke Reciprocating Piston engine, as Count DeDion intended!

Right; Basic engine has one cylinder, one piston, one con-rod, and five bearings on the major 'hinges' mentioned.

POWER = FORCE x SPEED

If you apply that to the RPEngine, you get a more common derivative in the form Power = Torque x Revs... which is actually the equation for 'transmitted shaft power' more useful to gear-boxes and the like, but looks nice and simple in the magazines, and people recognise the terms from the Dyno Charts printed to show how wonderful engines are in the mags.

More maths, though, you get THE equation for power in the Internal Combustion Engine:-

Power = Crank-Revs x Cylinder Pressure x Cylinder Displacement x Number of Cylinders

Give or take a few constants of proportionality.

This means, that in theory, dont matter how big an engine is, or how many cylinders it has, even LESS how they are arranged around the crank-shaft, or indeed, any number of crank-shafts; stuff we stick 'in' is fuel, useful stuff 'out' is 'Power'; how you get from on t'other matters little.... in thoery......

However; it's all about getting air into the engine.

More fuel we burn, more power we might get; and fuel is the bit we pay for. To make it a charge, though needs air, or more precicely oxygen, but we just grab that from the enviroment around us. However, we need far more of the stuff by mass, and even more by volume, than we do fuel, to make a charge. Hence the 'bulk' of what we want to cram into the engine is air; so shifting that is the important bit.

Equation, suggests, that 'in theory' you ought to be able to make a 50cc moped engine as 'powerful' as a 500cc GP engine.... fact that its 1/10 the displacement just means that to get the same power, you need to burn 1/10th the charge 10x as often... so; get it to turn 10x the crank revs, you are onto a winner...

Because what we have discovered, is that the variables of cylinder-displacement and crank speed, conspire, and what we really have, takes us back to base defanition of 'Power' which is:-

Power = Rate of energy Transfer

And another bit of Newtonian fizzix, 'Energy cannot be created or destroyed... merely converted in form'.... and that's what our engine is doing; turning chemical potential energy in the fuel, into kinetic energy, actual motion; and we can put that another way, in words;

Power is proportional to the rate of burning Fuel and Air

And air if the 'bulk' commodity we have to shift into the engine, to do that.

We can have a big engine that sucks a lot of charge into the engine on each cycle, but doesn't make many cycles per minute, or we can have a little engine, that only sucks a small amount of charge into the pot each time, but does it a lot more often; both MAY make the same power.

But, either way, we have to get that air IN to the engine, which means flowing it through a hole......

Getting air to flow through a hole, is like trying to get air to flow around a moving car, but inside out, and you get the same 'problem' of 'Wind-Resistance'.

Walk, what 2-3mph, and you don't even feel the 'wind' you are shifting pressing on you. Run, what, 10mph? you feel a bit of a breeze, but nothing 'hard'. Get on a moped, and do 30... you start to FEEL wind Resistance.... get on a motor-bike, doing 60, and it's pushing you about; 90? and its pretty darn stiff. The 'force' increases with speed, but 'exponentially', that is; double the speed, you more than double wind resistance.

Speed of Sound is 340mph, and at that speed, wind resistance is like running into a brick wall; air just do NOT like being shoved around that quick.

Now; engine is sucking air through a pretty small hole; if you multiply the cylinder displacement by the crank speed, you get the average air-flow rate it needs to keep the cylinder filled on every cycle; BUT, you need to multiply that 'average' flow rate by perhaps 10x to get the 'peak port velocity' through the valve, because the engine can only suck air on the induction stroke, meaning you only have 1/4 the time to get it through the hole, so have to shift it at least four times as fast; worse still, because its 'cyclic' and a stop-start flow, you have to get from stationary, to peak speed, then stop again in that time; multiply by three or four times again, so that it averages out at what you need.

500cc is half a litre; turn 6000 revolutions per minute; you have 50 bangs a second, and need 25l of air. Inlet valve is probably around 30mm in diameter, 3cm. That's about 7cm2 in area... except... thats the valve size. The hole it sits over will be a couple of mm smaller, and then there's the valve stem, and the valve guide in the way; Actual area that air can flow through, will typically be less than half that; maybe 3cm2. 25,000cm3 of air, through 3cm2 of hole, means a column of air aprox 8.5m long; which you need to get into the engine, in one second, means an 'average' air-flow rate of 8.5m/s, or 30Km/h. but we are concerned with 'peak flow' which is likely to be ten-times that, 300Km/h, or more than half the speed of sound....

And THAT is just turning pretty moderate engine revs on a relatively large cylinder, like on my old Range-Rover! (8 cylinders x 500cc = 4.0l. It does red line just under 6,000 rpm, and its inlet valves are 32mm diameter) Start trying to wind higher RPM to get more air flowing into a smaller engine, and that peak port velocity, can quite easily start scaring Mach-Numbers...

But doesn't matter, well before half the speed of sound; the wind resistance will cry enough, and the cylinder will start 'short filling'. Ports and valves just wont be able to keep the engine fed with enough air to keep it making full, cylinder displacement 'bangs' each cycle.

So the trick to making more power, is to keep peak port velocities low; so the cyclinder can be kept fed and make biggest bang each time.

Bigger the bang, more pressure you get; most 'torque' is delivered; and if you look at power traces; you have a power 'ramp' as revs increase, a peak torque, which is when the engine is working at an 'optimum' and you get the closest it can to a full cylinder fill; beyond that, up the rev range, power may increase, with crank-revs, but torque is dropping off, as the cylinder is being short filled each cycle, but the extra cycles per minute are more than making up for the % of shortage in each bang. Peak power then happens when more short-fill bangs per minute don't make up for the shortage on each bang, and past that, the % shortage in each cycle is increasing so much, that extra revs are self defeating, and you are getting less power, not more.

The shape of that power trace; where in the rev range peak torque and peak power are made, gives clue to the 'state of tune' the engine is in.

GENERALY; engines that give most 'peak' power per cc, will be in a higher state of tune, and they will get that higher peak power from optimising the inlet tract design to flow a higher volume of air, at higher rpm. However, that tends to mean 'big' ports, to keep peak port velocities reasonable at those higher engine revs, and wider throttle openings. Tends to mean that at lower engine rpm, and on part throttle openings, when the engine is making less power, the port velocities are rather very low; and when they are very low, what tends to happen is that air that gets in easily, can get back out easily too, and you loose what's called 'trapping efficiency', so at lower engine revs, more highly tuned engines tend to make less power than more concervatively tuned ones; And the more highly tuned they are, and the wider the rpm range is, more pronounced that trait tends to be; and the less 'tractable' the engine is to operating over the wide range of engine speeds and throttle openings that might be required of it, in 'real world' use.

This HAS NOTHING to do with how many cylinders an engine has, or how they might be arranged around the crank-shaft(s)

Its entirely a function of the arrangement of the plumbing to get 'charge' into the engine.

How the cylinders are arranged around the crank-shaft, has TENDED to be a matter of manufacturing ease and cost or designers preference.

Back to the basic components; piston, conrod, crank-shaft and bearings.

The modern four-stroke engine, as we know it, has changed little from what was designed by Count De-Dion, back in the 1890's. At the time, the engine was in its infancy, and engineers were struggling with many different problems; and they were significantly all very 'contraption like'. DeDion's engine was a clean sheet of paper 'simplification' of the ideas, and essentially the model of the modern engine. And so successful, he couldn't keep up with demand to make them. Consequently it was licenced to a Belgian company called Minerva; and later to... well, almost any-one! DeDion actually even sold 'single engine licences'; you mailed him a postal order, and he sent you a set of plans, that entitled you to make one engine from them, and black-smiths all over the known world were doing it. It was commonly reffered to as the 'Coffee-Tin' engine, as the crank-cases resembled a coffee tin!

The Crank Shaft was made on a lathe making two discs on the end of short shafts, the 'flywheels' the crank-step make by drilling holes into the flywheels, and hammering a pin into them. Yo had to make the con-rod, by drilling two holes, for the big and little end bushes, and fitting the big-end onto the crank-pin before you bashed the crank together, but it was that simple. Hole in the bottom of the coffee tin took one 'main bearing' hole in the lid the other.

And that, the 'Pressed up Crank' is legacy that has remained with us, in the motorbike world, through the pioneering and veteran age, into the hay-day of the Brit-Bike, and remained, long after 'forged, one piece, plain bearing cranks became common on cars; and is still with us, in modern two-stroke engines!

However; drill and tap a big hole in the top of your coffee tin; attach the piston to the con-rods little end; slide cylinder over piston, and screw into the tin.... you have an engine... more or probably a bit less.

And clever tinkerers and shedologists of the pioneering era, set about trying to get more power from these things.... the ones that then failed and lost races, realised that rather than muggering about with valves and stuff, they could double the power of thier sub-standard engine in one swoop... all they needed to do was drill another hole in the top of the coffee tin, and screw in another cylinder. With two con-rods on one crank-pin, they didn't need to make a more complicated crank, they could use the same one; more; it didn't even need to be made any bigger, or stronger or heavier; with the two cylinders arranged in a V on the crank-case, and with crank two revolutions per cycle, they could fire one pot on one revolution, and one pot on the other; and the 'peak' loading n the crank would not be any higher than it would from a single....

Exploring the idea, we have had narrow angle V's, those with an angle of less than 60 degrees between the cylinders, like a Harley, with its 45 degree V angle, and 'wide angle V's, those with more than 60 degrees, heading out to a full 90, like a Ducati, or Guzzi, and beyond THAT we get to Boxers, that have a full 180 degrees between the pots, and are 'horezontally opposed'.

What would you have if you took a BMW Boxer, and put a third cylinder in the middle, or even put a V between the horezontal pots? Answer, half a 'radial'... a common configuration in aero engines.. I think Rhone, managed to get 16 cylinders firing onto a single crank-pin in thier radial Aero-engines!

Anyway, that was how the V-Twin came about, and the boxer... except that the 'boxer' uses two crank pins... but thats another story, I think!

The Parallel twin.

Came to be epitomised by the classic Triumph Bonaville and the mainstay of the Brit-Bike industry in the 1950's & 60's. Oragins, though date back to the 1920's & 30's, when it vascilated in and out of favour.

Advantage of a parallel twin, is that having both cylinders side by side, they could both be faced into the cooling wind.

Air-cooled V's, and longditudinal Horezontal twins (see Douglass motorcycles for examples - peidates anything by BMW by a couple of decades!), have once cylinder behind the other. And they dispell thier heat pretty much by radiation alone; one pot is always going to live in a zone where any moving air it sees was heated by the cylinder infront of it, that got to the cooling air first.

As power increased, this became a weakness. Having the cylinders side by side, gives them equal and improved cooling (Why BMW turned the horizontal twin around so one pot pokes out either side, the bike... or precicely, Arnold Bradshaw did, and BMW just ripped off his design... or more precicely, Flink, did, before BMW bought them out!)

ANYWAY; go parallel twin, and you get better cooling; you also get an engine that is as compact as a single, AND you can more easily arrange valve train around it, and possibly even get it to 'share' oil galleries and stuff.

Trouble is, you need a very wide crank-pin.... gives you a '360 degree crank. Both pistons at TDC at the same time; one timed on power stroke, while the other is 360 degrees about the 720 degrees of crank rotation in a power cycle, on induction.

Wide crank pin, means that the crank is not very well supported and prone to flex, and 360 timing makes the motor rather prone to vibration, both pistons going in the same direction at the same time. But it is cheap and easy to make...

A 180 crank, using middle flywheel, to that you have two steps, can balence it out a bit better, make it less vibratory, but means you need a more complicated ignition system, and its more complicated to make, and still prone to flex.

A three journal crank; requires four flywheels, with two crank-pins, you can pretty much set where you want; 360, 180 or anything in between, for that matter; and means you can support the crank with a third, middle, main bearing... only like the big-ends, this has to be fitted when the crank is pressed up. Its complicated and expensive....

You may as well go to forged, plain bearing cranks, as used in cars; which are made from one bit of metal; cast pressed into shape, than machined; and then fitted with conrods made in two parts that clamp around thr crank-pins and are supported on little slipper shells of half bearings.

This is actually a lot simpler, AND cheaper to make.... IF you make enough of them to pay for the tooling.... which the car makers did; but bike makers didn't, at least not in the olden days.

Brings us up to the original, 'accross the frame four' the immortal Honda CB750, of 1969.

Four cylinder bikes had been about, since, oooh... almost as long as singles probably! four cylinders; one for each stroke of the cycle, are SMOOTH. did you know, that more American Motorcycle makers made 'in-line' four cyclinder motorcycles than have made V-Twins?

No? Well... I suppose it is a bit of a swiz; most of them were the same bike, made by the same bloke; who just kept going out of business, and setting up under a new name! William Hendee? I think. Henderson Motorcycles, 'The Hudson' Excelsior; American Eagle, Flying X; The Indian Four! there you go! Now how many American makers can you name who've made V-Twins?

In-line with the frame, though, like the V-Twin; suffered cooling problems, as only the front pot got air. Also suffered long cranks; and high-costs to make them, with low volume sales... probably why Mr Hendee kept going bankrupt! Nimbus in Denmark, did OK by the design, though; they made thier in-line four, from the 190's right up until the 1960's.

Putting the engine accross the frame, though sorted the cooling issue, if it made the bike rather wide; and where one-off manufacturing costs weren't an issue; four little pots in a silky smooth arrangement, offered very high rpm potential for lots of power, and was worth the doing in racing; most noteably Gilera; whose racing department was snapped up by Count Agusta when it shut down to make the Galerat Fire Engines; the screaming MV 'fours' of the 60's against which Honda had to make a 4 to compete with the two strokes... Resulting in the CB750-Four... mainly as a 'headliner' to show that they could put 'race' technology on the streets at a price people could afford, as well as prove to Western markets, that they could do more than 'tiddlers', and prove they could build a 'big bike' as big, and as good, if not better than anything that came out of Meriden.

Kawasaki & Suzuki followed suit.... and so began the era of the muscle bike, based on in-line air-cooled fours.

1980. American 'emmission controls' had all but killed the two-stroke in the biking worlds 'cash-cow' market place. The Japanese 'fours' had an advantage over Euro-Twins, in that they could also make thier power with a lower state of tune, and be more tolerant of lower octane rated fuel, and unleaded fuel, as leaded and high octane was being phased out accross the USA.

Gave the Japs a big advantage; BUT, demand from market, for bigger, better, faster, more, meant they weren't un-challenged, while increasing emmission regulation, added pressure.

HONDA SAID "The Only way to make a four cylinder engine, water cooled, in order to achieve greater than 125bhp per liter, and meet stringent emmission controls, AND keep the engine compact enough to be installed into a motorcyle that will remain nimble and lightweight is to make a V-Four"

I remember that distictly... because I have a Honda VF1000.... it does NOT make 125bhp per liter. It is by NO stretch of the imagination, 'light', 'nimble' or by any stretch of the imagination.... 'compact'!

However; that was Hondas motivation for the V-four concept. Take two pots of the end, stick them behind. Halves the engine width. While Water cooling, eliminates the heat-shroud effect of the back pots living in the heat shaddow of the fronts. Reasonably sound thinking... except at the tie they had a very poor reputation for making in-line fours with reliable cam-chain tensioners... and here they were proposing a bike with double the complexity!

The doubters were proved right... they turned out an over complicated, under-performing bludy night-mare! And it was only Honda cussedness that saw them completely re-engineer the series, using gear driven cams to make something reliable; and which if accounts are to be believed; cost Honda more to make than the paying customer pays in the show-room.

Meanwhile; Kawasaki, went away and built the original GPz600R, and GPz900R, proving Hondas V4 hype, wrong.... and which Honda rapidly back-pedaled on, launching the 'jelly-mold' CBR600 & 1000, in quick succession, remembering that THEY had 'invented' the accross the frame four, and the CBR was the next incarnation of Honda development?!?!?

Things have NOT moved on much from then.

EXCEPT... America, still biking cash-cow market... like American Motorcycles... but even THEY have love hate relationship with Harleys....

"If it ent Harlee, it Ent shit!"... "Oh How right you are, with the double negative!"

Back to that V-4 concept. Honda, in some ways recognising American appetites, and in others completely loosing the plot.... realised that their 'Plastic Fantastics' were not selling to Hard-Core american bikers, who were buying abysmally built, outdated Milwake Iron, by the ton.

The 'First' V4 from Honda, then was NOT the VF750/1000 'Sports-bike', usually the flag ship model eladers ahead of derivative models. No; Honda's first V4 was the V45 & V65 Magna, 'Super-Cruiser' and slightly less cruiserified 'Sabre' 'Street-Tourer'.The American Market 'Interceptor' and Euro/RoW VF model was launched a year later.

The 'Magna', google it, it REALLY is worth a look; was Hondas Idea of a 'space Age Harley'... it's sort of like a Cross between the Knight Industries Two Thousand (Knight-Rider); Street-Hawk, and a Transformers toy robot... complete with fake Chrome, and a Digital Dash-board! It is UTTER Eighties Techno Kitch.

But THAT, based on Knight-Rider, Street-Hawk and Transformer toys... was where Honda thought the American motorcycle market was at.... and it DID spawn Yamaha to make the V-Max... which sort of got it a bit more 'right'.

So; in another face saving revision; Honda dusted off the dies to a bike they had created, mainly to beat Yamaha on the American Dirt ovals, built to American Motorcycle Assiciation rules for Flat-Tracking, based around the Harley XR750, it was a 50 degree V-Twin, that was originally created by V-Twinning a pair of XL250 engines AKA the V-Twin pioneers of the veteran age.

Water-Cooled to stop the back pot overheating; it became the VT500 in Europe, where with the rise of the ParisDaker bikes, it gained knobly tyres and stilted suspension to become the Transalp.

Also became the Honda Shaddow for the US cruiser market; conforming to the 'idea' of what a cruiser ought to look like to staid concervative Harley fans, who didn't want to spend thier whole time mopping up oil puddles and treating tenitis and tendonistis!

Yamaha were no stranger to V-Twins; they had designed a 1000cc V back in the 70's, when they were unsure about following Honda, Suzuki & Kawasaki into 'accross the frame'fours'. Co-Incidentally, then they created the original Virago range, and they sold, in the US.

SO! Significantly, in the modern world; the topography, or cylinder arrangement of the motorcycle engine is as much as anything a 'fasion' thing, to conform to market ideas of what 'that kind' of bike should look like.

Cruiser - V-Twin.
Sports-Bike - Water-Cooled accross the frame four.
Muscle bike - air-cooled accross the frame four
Commuter-Bike - middle displacement parallel twin.
Learner-Bike - 125cc single

Dirt bikes have tended to always be singles for simplicity; trend continues.

Large 'Adventurte Sports', and the V-Twin Super-Sports are fashion anomolies.

Ducati, were a non-entity in the 1960's, making small 'exotic' desmo-valved low displacement singles. Broke into the 'big-bike' market in the early 70's; in despiration; Doubling up a pair of 350 singles ala the coffee-tin pioneers to make a 90 degree 'Desmo-Twin', around which they build a range of ever more specialised 'sporting twins' that significantly gained racing reputation exploiting FIM rules for super-bike racing demanding 'production based' machinary, and providing displacement concession to twins allowing them to run 1000's against 750's.

Honda's SV was a corporate cockasnoot, then to show Ducati they could build a better Ducatti, if they wanted to; Suzuki SV &TL jumping onto the band-waggon to build bikes to 'stereo-type'.

Adventure sports - Charlie & Ewan put the media spot-light on them; but, BMW had been making them for decades. Out-Paced in super-bike and endurace, BMW found that the vogue of American 'Desert Raid' racing, brought to Europe, in the form of the PAris Dakar, was an arena they could still compete; a big twin, being a more likely proposition for a mega-long-distance off-road race, than a lightweight buzzy single, or over-weight, over powered accross the frame four.

The BMW boxer, as mentioned is something of an anathma; the basic layout was penned by Albert Bradshaw, working for teh Sopwith Aero company during the first world war, as an 'improvement' on the Douglas 3 1/2 that Sopwith were making under licence for the war effort. Bradshaw set up on his own after the first world war to market his machine; failed after making about fifty and went back to work for Sopwith. Meanwhile he had sold a Eurpean licence to the design to Flink, who had made components for BMW; they made a few more bikes, but suffered shortages problems and were bought out by BMW who caried on making the bike, with revisions, under thier own name, through the 1930's.

Staid, concervative and teutonic; they didn't really evolve the thing very much; being more interested in making aero engines and trying to launch a car company, after World War 2.

Wasn't until 1980; when most Euro makers had gone under, or were at risk of; they remembered they made motorbikes, and chucked thier best car engineers at making a 'modern motorcycle'. Result was the Flying Brick, the K100, water-cooled, horezontally mounted, in-line four, longditudinally mounted... which they ADMITTED was mostly to be different from what the japs were making at the time! To offer a 750, they simply chopped a pot of the back to make an oft forgot tripple.

Tripples are uncommon... Triumph / BSA set about building one in the 1960's, to stave off the Japanese competition; the BSA Rocket 3 / Triumph Trident.

The old 650 Bonnie had been stretched well beyond limits taken from the original 500cc design to 650 and then 750; starved of development cash, like Ducati had when they concieved thier Desmo Twin; Umberslade looked to expediency, and Edward Turner was called back for brain-storming; concluding in a return to the original, push-rod Speed Twin of 1938... and suggestion to add another pot on the end. An idea the Umberslade boys took little further.

It was NOT a particularly wonderful bike. It was 'fast' and it handles pretty well, but it was a cobble-job, and it showed; and horrible to work on, difficult and expensive to service, and had little pottential for further development. Worse, it was horendousely expensive. In the USA it sold for more than double the list price of the then best selling bonnie, still in the catalogues; and the small amount of extra performance just didn't warrant the price top many buyers. It was, grudgingly a BIT of a flop; putting off many from following the idea.

Laverda did though; but they chose to tripple up a well regarded overhead cam twin to make the SFC/Jota, and selling as an 'exotic', never expected to be built in large numbers, that DID justify its price tag.

Bloor Triumph, returned to the tripple, in the early 1990's; and like BMW, built tripples 'to be different'. The whole range of re-launch Hinkley Triumphs was based on a 'modular concept' engine; two crank shaft strokes and two bore sizes, gave them a 750 tripple, & 900 tripple, a 1000cc four and a 1200cc four. And the resemblance of the Daytona 1000, to a GPz900 with ZX10 barels on it, was uncanny... and when you mark that Kawasaki claimed that the 60bhp, GPz500 was 'essentially half a ZX10'... you wonder just how string that Kwakker connection was.

To wit, to Wo-turn to the original question:

[Hahadumball]

*teffers*

the Honda CB125 was a 122 cc (7.4 cu in) motorcycle made by Honda from 1971-1975 (1973-1985 in the US). It had an overhead camshaft (OHC) engine with a 9500 rpm redline. The "S" model was produced from 1971 to 1975 and was replaced in 1976 by the "J" model (the US bikes retained the S designation). The newer model sported a two piece head, 124 cc (7.6 cu in) displacement, and a larger carburetor


*normal human*

you sure you got the correct rings and bored to the correct size?

take the plug out and see what it looks like.

post pics.
____________________
Fin: no matter how much I look at It I can't understand what was going through my head, all I remember is going about 80 and redlining it to stop it seizing.
360 Deg... Five 1/4 turns. :- Teflon-Mike 18 Jan 2015

[Ste]

This Chinese Cruiserette, would lumber up to 55mph... max.

Didn't really matter if it was ridden solo or if Snowie & I were 2-Up on it. A combined passenger weight well in excess of 20 stone. And the bike itself wasn't exactly anorexic; think the damn thing was about as heavy as her Moto-Guzzi 750!

But I have to say I do not really recommend a Chinese Cruiserette ... I don't really recommend any 125 Cruiserette ... and I struggle to find much to recommend any Chinese bike... for any-one... let alone as a learner-bike, but that's another matter.

Point is your mates 'worry' is unfounded; any 125, even a crappy Chinky Cruiserette should be able to lug his lard to more than 50.. As Trevor said, speed is a function of aerodynamics not weight, really.

The pertinent equation is Power = Drag x Speed, so how fast you go is set by how much power you have, and how much wind resistance there is. Mass only really comes into the equation, Force = Mass x Acceleration, so heavier the 'vehicle', slower it will accelerate, to whatever top speed its power will allow, but it should still get there.

Where bikes are 'slower' with a larger rider on them, it IS mainly because the rider is physically larger, not because they are heavier.

Drag is pretty much proportional to the 'frontal area' presented to wind resistance; and your heavier rider will tend to be taller and wider than a lighter one; so present more of a 'barn door' to the wind, like an air-brake.

But, wind resistance increases exponentially with speed; for an average sized rider, you only need about 3bhp to go 30mph; to go 60mph, you need about 9bhp, so three times the power to get twice the speed; but then it starts ramping much more steeply; 20bhp will get you to around 80, but you need about 30bhp to nudge 100. 60bhp will just about get you to 120.

But, point is that on a power limited 'learner-legal', you dont have the power to go much over 60 anyway, and under 60mph you are on a very shallow portion of the speed/power curve, where it wont really make massive difference... well, in real world mph.

Should your mate carry on? Well, who are we to tell him what to do?

Does he WANT to ride a motorbike, or is he making excuses not to?

Does he want to ride a lightweight or is he making excuses, because they dont fit his aspirations of the kind of bike he would like?

And why is this YOUR problem?

Are you trying to encourage him so you have a riding buddy? Or because HE actually wants to be on a bike?

That line of enquiry needs bottoming out here first; Does he REALLY want to ride a motorbike, what bike, and WHY?

You have to be an enthusiast to ride a bike; its too compromised, uncomfortable, and generally scary other wise, and if some-one HAS the enthusiasm to ride a bike.... they tend not to need much encouragement from other people, they'll do it for themselves... so if he's NOT done it for himself? Well, probably doesn't have the enthusiasm for it, and you are on a road to no-where trying to encourage him.

40bhp V-Twin, it can just about break into tripple figure speeds; its a very 'sweet' little motorcycle, and just about sets the base-line for a Cruiser that can tick the boxes.

Harley 883 'Piglet'. H-D's entry level cruiser, almost 900cc's of Evo Engine; aprox 50bhp and a top speed of just over 100mph; it's the 'baby' of the Harley Range, again, setting base line for a smaller cruiser.

Going up from there, you have huge range of more or less cruiserified bikes; and while engine size might go up, top speeds dont go up much; its not what they are about; the extra displacement and extra power is about making the motor's lazier, so they dont have to be worked so hard.

And with good reason; they are 'naked' motorcycles. Anything over about 90mph is a little bit breezy, and wind pressure is like having a small woman sitting on you're chest, and it gets tiring after a while; (Well, riding a naked motorcycle over 90mph... I think I can tolerate a small woman, better still a naked small woman sat on me for rather longer Wink) 100-110 you start getting buffeted by turbulance, which is uncomfortable; and much over that, you are hanging on, trying not to be a parachute.

Now, on my 'naked' street-bike, at speeds approaching triple figures, I'm sat in the 'hunter' riding position; like a horse rider, upright, back straight, bum over stirrups, and I can lean 'in' to the wind to take pressure off, or even adopt the 'Jockey' position, like a horse jockey, getting my head down and pushing my feet back, to make myself smaller and get out of a lot of that wind.

A 'Cruiser' tends to the 'lancer' riding position; feet-forwards, leaning back; which is comfortable... and great if you are 'tilting' and about to get hit by a lance... but... not so great at speed, as stretched to the handle-bars there's not a lot you can do to lessen the wind pressure., except slow down.

So the actual 'style' of cruisers, makes them just about 100mph motorcycles, regardless of what the specs might say.

As for 125's? Like I said, I don't class them as 'cruisers' they have the styling, but they are about as much a real 'cruiser' as a YZF-R125 is a real 'Super-Sports'. Has the 'look' but thats where the similarities stop.

Earlier I showed you a picture of my O/H's Chinese Cruiserette; a bike you actually had on your short list; the AJS Regal Raptor DD125E

If we are talking 125 Cruiserettes; well, as far as the Chinky ones go, it's by far not the worst. Build quality was pretty good for a Chink, and it's performance was not far off par. That one was a 2004 model I think, and pretty much a bolt for bolt clone of the Honda Rebel. Snowie had the original sales invoice which showed it cost nearly two grand, new, almost ten years ago; so it was far from a 'cheap' Chink, though it was about 2/3 the list price of Japanese build 125 Rebel.

The twin cylinder, single carb, over-head cam 'Benly' based motor, used in the Honda CM & CD 125's has always been criticised for being under-powered and over-complicated, against other 125's. I'm a Benly fan, and the critasism is a bit unfair, and the knockers have probably never ridden one and only looked at the specs, where, sure, compared to a CG125, numbers would make you ask 'why'. But, the little twin is a smooth motor, at low revs its not 'lumpy' like a single, and it has quite a bit more useful 'low' and 'mid-range' power.... not that any 125 is wonderfully endowed, BUT, the little twin does have the quality. And the Chinese Licence built version doesn't seem to have suffered so much in Chinese tolerence wandering or de-tuning to meet ever tighter EU emission controls as the singles.

But, like I said... real world, 55mph. That was its lot. And took a lot of cog-swapping to keep it up there.. wasn't really 'Cruising'! Put a grin on my face, I have to admit; sort of took me back to the 80's and old Jap bikes with unpredictable brakes tyres and suspension; approaching every bend with trepidation, and daring wondering how much you dare scrubb off to go round it!

The 'premier' Japanese 125 cruiserettes, no longer in any-ones catalogues as far as I know, were the Honda 125 Shaddow, that used the Veradaro's 125's V-Twin (Though actually that's probably other way about; Veradaro used Shaddow's engine) and was the most expensive 125 in Honda's range; likewise Yamaha's XV125 and Suzuki's 125 Intruder.

A freind of mine had a 125 Intruder for about three years till he paid off the finance... silly boy... larger lad, he liked it well enough and as long as he knew no better and had little else to compare it to. Real world? 'about' 60mph. Not worlds away from the Raptor.

EZ on here had the Suzuki 125 Marauder; which is the cruiserified 125 commuter single; again, not as 'refined' as the Intruder or the other twins, but very similar stats; again 'about' 55 flat out.

So, down to the generic Chinky Cruiserettes. Most are parts bin specials; confections of the various licence built Japanese bikes.

Common one, and I think Lexmoto sold a couple, used the twin-port CG copy engine in the copy Rebel frame; think it was badged 'Texan' or something like that. Gave it chunkier styling and twin exhaust pipes to look more like a twin, but wasn't. Again, top speeds claimed around 60-65, but utterly notional, real world 50-55, but the least refined engine in heaviest frame, not exactly brisk off the mark or wonderfully responsive.

Then there's the Nevada? Or similar generic Chinese Semi-Cruiserified commuters; CG copy engine, and probably CG frame with shorter shocks and longer forks to cruiserify it, like the Yamaha SR, and probably dressed out with generic tank and bodywork from SR copies. Again, less refined, and whatever the stats may say, usually around 60mph, real world 55ish.

The differences are not so much in how fast any of them MIGHT go as how comfortably they might do it, and bottom line is that ALL of them are going to be at thier performance limit trying to hold road-speed down an unrestricted 60mph road.

BUT... so would almost ANY genuinely learner-legal 125, certainly a four-stroke one.

Veradaro owners tend to be very enthusiastic about thier models performance and claim they can do and sustain 70 pretty well... I dont doubt them, though I allow a fair bit for newby nievity and speedo optimism, and owning a couple of genuine GPS checked 70mph four-stroke 125's.... well, you might hold an indicated 70 on a flat bit of by-pass reasonably well, but I'd deffer to the double-nickel and get in the truck-stack in the inside lane, to save a bit for head-winds and hills! while on an unclassified country road, with a 60 limit? I know that I'd be working the bike hard and being a bit brave come corners to keep speeds up near the blanket limit!

NO 125 is 'fast'. Even the fastest of the hot-snot 'fast' 125's the illegal on L-Plates full power two strokes, that might just about scare the 'ton'. Might be 'fast' compared to majority of L-Plate tiddlers, BUT... in wider biking world, you struggle to find much that's ACTUALLY that slow; they are about as powerful and as fast as an old Honda 250 commuter single!

So, your ambition of a 125 Cruiserette? Well, they are SLOW bikes. In a world of slow bikes.. they aren't THAT much slower than anything else. But, they don't 'cruise', and they take as much or more rider work to keep up as other styles of 125.

NOW... lot of mental machinations obviously going on, and you and your mate are obviously enjoying the imaginative adventure of exploring the possibilities... BUT

SUMMER'S BURNING BOYS

Stop Thinking - Start Riding.

You have to start some-where, and if cruisers are the 'style' of bike you like, and you want to do the 125 'thing' instead of going for an A2 and a bigger-bike.... GET THE FUCK ON WITH IT!

You'll find out what its all about quick enought once you DO IT.

And you'll probably find half your worries and ideas get blown out the window.

Off the blocks, as new riders, the bikes vital statistics ENT going to be the limiting factor, it will be your evolving skill levels; THIS is why we have 'Learner-Bikes' so you can go learn on one.

There are nicer ones and nastier ones, but for the most part, they are all adequete for the job, and only real worry is whether they are value for money doing it.

Stop deliberating; get your cash in a heap, and go see what you can ACTUALLY buy for it; cos unless you buy new, your choices will mainly be constricted by what people actually have to sell, as much as by what you might actually want.

And summer's wastin'!

No one wants to spend a lot of money on a 125... consequently there is an awful lot of shit out there that can wear an L-Plate, becouse people wont pay for a decent bike, and wont spend time or money on one if they happen to have it, or even are clued up enough to know how; they are learner bikes, so many dont know much at all.

If you want a 125 you have to pay to get a decent one.

And if you want a 'good start' they are worth it.

Most important bike you will buy. Yeah, big bikes are where you want to be, and we can deliberate till the cows come home whether a CBR600 ir better than a YZF600, and which has the better suspension or brakes.... bottom line is that on a bike like that YOU the average punter that buys one for the road will NEVER apreciate the small differences between them, let alone be able to exploit any small advantage they might have, YET these things are 'important' and get a lot of debate and consideration...

the 125 you learn on, the ONE bike where having decent wheels under your arse, so that while you are learning, any wobbling going on is down to YOU and you alone, not some unknown problem with the bikes suspension or steering or suspension; and putting it right isn't pissing in the dark, wondering if its a loose bolt, a worn tyre, a clapped out damper, or you doing something daft....

Get a GOOD 125, and only thing that can make it wobble is YOU.

Makes learning that much easier; makes it an awful lot nicer, makes it a heck of a lot more FUN.

When you have a licence and you have some idea what you are doing... THEN you can actually get away with a slightly more 'tired' bike, that doesn't behave itself so well, becouse you KNOW any wobbling going on at that point is down to the bike, not you!

If you want a good start and you want a 125... well they are, from the start compromised little bikes; compromised by low displacement, low powered engines; compromised by low weight and price constraints; you really dont want more or specifically more unnecessary compromises in a machine that is already hugely compromised.

So, get as good as you can afford.

And YES, buy prices are expensive. SO you have to find more money when you buy.

But buy prices are expensive. SO you'll get more money BACK when you sell....

Best Value For Money 'Training Tool' around at the moment is the Yamaha YBR125.

New they are nudging three grand; which is about 2/3 the price of some more 'posey' 125's like the Yamaha YZF R125 race replica, or the Cruiser style Dragstar, and still a fair bit cheaper than the dirt-bike style XT125.

It is, also three times the price of a generic Chinesebranded 'Bike in a Box'.... but difference is it will still be worth something after you have attached a number-plate and it WILL do 65mph!

Brand new, is the 'best' you can get as far as reliability and known oragin, and working as good as it should, with peace of mind that you have a warranty.

BUTY you pay heavily in depreciation, and a year in, a £2800 YBR is probably worth barely £2K... two years in it will be around £1700, and at three years, around £1500.

First MOT is due at three years, and three or four year old models, priced between £1000 and £1500, are about the vest valkue you can get in the learner legal market.

They have lost all that horrible depciation, and are a half the price they were new. They also have that first MOT to give some confidence that they haven't been thrashed to death in MOT exemption period, and at ABOUT halfd their anticipated service life, probably less than half anticipated life miles will tend to have enough life in them to still be pretty tought and solid and dependable, and not be too wobbly.

Means that buy-sell risk is low. Risk is they wont need much if any thing by way of expensive maintenence or repairs; they will work well for a year or so, and can be sold, for little loss on buy price, cost of ownership, very small, tending to negligible.

So, a £1500 YBR bought, ridden and sold within a year for £1300 costs just £200.

A £900 Chinese Bike in a Box, sold a year on, is lucky to fetch £500, so would have cost £400 and not been as nice to ride or own in the mean time.

A twenty year old CG125 that costs £400, could demand £400's worth of work to get it out of the delapidation of maintenence overdraft old learner-legal commuters so frequently drop into.... might sell for £400, so only cost £400 but still just as expensive as a Bike in a Box, and twice as expensive as a YBR.... abd big risk it wont fix, or if its not fixed, you will get a years intermittent use out of it for your money and have a pile of scrap left at the end of it.

There are few bargains about in the Learner Legal market; but there can be, if you are prepared to pay for them 'up-front'...

That YBR, bought for £1300 selling for £1100 costs you £200, and still leaves you enough cash to go get a very useful 'big-bike', if thats what you want.

So where should you go now?

Well, experience is good, but bad experience isn't!

Straight out of CBT, you can go get a 125 and ride around for two years, learning by your mistakes... which can hurt.... and if twenty five years trials riding has tought me ONE thing, its teenagers bounce better! Older you get, more falling off seems to HURT!

Also not likely to teach you much about how to pass a test, though might boost your confidence a bit.

alternative is to skip 125's and do DAS, which for most means an intensive course of between three and five days, riding around with an instructor telling you what to do through an ear-piece,m giving you lots of false confidence, and taking a lot of money off you to do little more than fullfill legal requirement to supervise you riding a 'big-bike' before qualified... and I dont say that glibly, until recently I WAS an instructor.... Intensive DAS courses are a lot of money to satisfy impatience!

Once you have done your DAS course, where you will have been tought little about surviving the world of big bikes, but given a lot ot test-tricks to get you through tests, and what you might have learned about survival riding, you probably wont remember, fast in, fast out, in the cramming going on, and with little real experience to give any of it meaning or relevence......

You will come out with a full licence able to jump straight onto any bike you like, and ride it unsupervised....

And a few moments after you do so.... you will be wondering, "What do I DO!..... Theres no voice in my ear to tell me what to DO!... what did the bloike say about box junctions! I cant remember!"

This is not good, and you will be like a CBT fresh newbie on a 125, left to learn by your own mistakes...... only instead of it being a 10 or 14bhp 125, with a 60-70mph top speed..... it COULD be a 1000cc hyper bike that can out accelerate an F1 car, and reach 180mph before you can actually THINK! "Oh Shit!"

NOT! that 125's are, by dint of restricted performance MUCH better.

Often dismissed as 'Toy' or 'Kiddie Bikes', they are still credible motorcyles. You may have noted from the sig-line below I have a little fleet of them; and they are ALL fast enough to exceed national speed limit. and they are ALL quick enough to out accelerate MOST traffic. They will even stay with moderately fast cars, driven with spirit point to point, if I try hard enough.

Even a 125 has enough performance to get you into a LOT of trouble....

BUT, they do have merit. They will get you into trouble slower, and they will TEND to give you more warning, and they will TEND to demand more effort from you to be so foolish!

Bike bikes you CAN take liberties with; they have more weight, which can make them more daunting, but that mass also gives them momentum, which means it damps clumsiness and flatters poor riding, a lightweight will show up much more clearly. More power and more flexible engines will also demand less work from the rider, so again, let you get away with more, and be more lazy.

So 125s DO have merit as a training tool, they will treated with respect help you develop balence and control more acutely.

BUT, getting on and getting out, learning by mistakes is not great.

Intensive DAS courses get you a licence, but thats pretty much al they do, and can leave you on something very scary to learn by errors.

If you go 125, and its my reccomended route;' book weekly lessons on your own bike, to back up CBT, and Learn by other peoples mistakes and accumulated wisdom!

It hurts less! and doesn't take many skuffed exhausts or broken brake levers before its cost less too!

A two hour lesson; gives you enough time to learn something, without it being a blurr of information.

You then have all the time you want to go practice what you have learned, on your own time; get it sussed, and go back. AND with some road riding between lessons, more experience to give what you are tought meaning and relevence that also helps it 'stick'.

Better still though; that experience can direct questions to ask your instructor, to milk thier knowledge for all its worth, and get stuff you would NEVER get on an Intensive DAS, simpoly becouse no one would think to tell you, and you dont know enough to ask!

For a complete beginner, seven or eight two hour, weekly lessons ought to be all you need to get to test standard AND have some good arsenol of learning to survive behind it.

You now have choice becouse just becouse you TRAIN on a 125 doesn't mean you have to TEST on a 125, and you could test under DAS rules, to get ful lunrestricted A group licence.

No worries if you want, you can save pennies (at the moment; new laws come into force in a year) and test on your own 125, which will give you a full A group licence but with 2-year probationary 33bhp power limit.

This is 'enough' to be useful and if you didn'ty envissage stepping up to hyper bike at the earliest, gives plenty of options, and most 500 commuter twins, good for over 100mph and no small risk to licence, if restricted (standard they are around 45bhp and good for possibly 120mph)

This is the good way around; BUT if you are ardent on a DAS course, forwarned about the lost voices syndrome; and the DAS pass death rate amongst older riders on bigger bikes, and want to substitute for post test training, thats another way around it.

From where you are; cant make your choices for you; or make them any easier, just give you the right ideas... just when training some-one I can teach them to ride, I can teach them survival techniques, how they apply them after, really up to them..

I merely point out that they set the bench-mark standard to judge the alternatives, and as an all-round compromise, they ARE a very hard package to better.

My personal opinion of them as a 'motorcycle', is that they are possibly one of THE most boring, uninspiring and generally soulless motorcycles ever created... geez even the old Honda CB100N had 'some' sort of charecter...... you cant even ridicule them for thier styling! They are just... JUST... well, about the only thing you can say about them is "Well, at least its not a scooter!" And even in that anathmic world of engineering perversity there are machines that stand out, and have some 'interest'!

BUT, the YBR is not the be-all and end all and a paragon of motorcycling, it's about as inspiring as a washing machine.

Actually I have got more exited by a washing machine... I even had one with more charecter... used to jump out and mug me every time I had to walk past it to go to the loo!

But; like a washing machine.... it does the job.

The appeal of the YBR is in those numbers, that make it the least-risk, generally most cost effective way into biking.

Practically; its a no frills bike; there are plenty of them around; its an easy ride machine; just as many of them about; Its a 'dependable' low maintenance machine; fair few of them in the arena too. But there aren't MANY that wrap all that in one cost effective solution. Honda CBF comes close. but not 'quite' so economically.

Representing such a very very well 'optimised' package, of such keen 'value', (even brand new, they are not as bad as some!) its hard to beat, and I plaud it, msainly becouse if you want to go for something different, it sets the base line to illustrate how and where the compromise is being shifted.

Often reccomended, and much loved by more mature Learners; Honda Veradaro. Nice bike. But expensive. Physically large; its nice and comfy, especially for larger riders, and looks like a 'big-bike'. Down sides, are its not so ecconomical; its a tad more powerful, but not much faster; Size can make it bulky, and harder to manouver, while taller seat and higher centre of gravity mean its not SO easy to swing through test cones. Practically, doesn't push the compromises too far, as a learner commuter; except in area of costs. But again, more expensive, you pay more, but get more back. But not AS ecconomical on running costs as a YBR, so cost of ownership likely to be higher; while Honda spares and lots of plastic; any repairs likely to be expensive.

Going Daft; Aprillia RS125. One of the most expensive LEarner Legals on the market. Actually on DSA approval list with warnings that demand examiner must see 'valid' proof of restriction before letting you sit test on one; becouse they are a highly strung 28bhp race bike with lights. Physically large, they look like a bigger bike, and unrestricted they go like one. Bludy expensive to run though; 70mpg is 'good' going, and you have to chuck 15p's worth of high grade two stroke oil in the oil reservoir for every £1.35liter of petrol! Race crouch riding possition isn't so comfortable; restricts visibility and makes observations, and making clear obviouse Examiner approved observations harder work. Great brakes for e-stop, but horendouse steering lock for cone work, and riding possition that doesn't give best control. We then get to the matter of running costs and pistons listed as service spares. They demand a lot of maintenence; new they are expensive; and looked after to the service schedule effoff expensive. "nd hand; thrashed by a few no-little kiddie-go-kwick owners, often struggling to keep up with the HP installments, and more interested in spending money to go faster, rather than not break down; they get even MORE expensive to run, ignoring that service schedule, becouse costs are too high for so many owners to bear. Probably one of the worst learner bikes you can get; pushing the compromises SO far to get style and an idea of 'performance'.

Yamaha XT125. Dirt bike. Four stroke single cylinder engine, its a YBR on stilts and knoblies. Compromised for off-road work, and on-road work its never going to be master of either. Not bad, and off-road riding can be fun. But bending bikes falling off on dirt (they DO bend; another thing 25 years trials riding has tought me!) dents budget, and doesn't bode well for a 'smart' bike to turn up to test on! Nible geometry makes them easier than many to hustle through cones; but that advantage hedged by higher CofG making it mnore precariouse; and knobly tyres and soft suspension making it less sure footed; most on manouveres like the e-stop. Pretty robust in low speed 'spill' though. Again, compormise is being skewed, and both performance and easy riding being compromised for style and off-road ability.

Honda Shaddow; Cruiser; a little Harley. Lots of style; and lots of money. New they are over four grand. Look big to people that dont know any better; and look 'cool' to misguided cruiser fans. But little 125cc engine they DONT 'cruise' engine that takes three gear changes to get to 30mph does not suggest a 'lazy' easy ride a cruiser ought to be. The added weight they carry makes them slow, and hard work to manouver; and the lazy chopperesque riding possition and steering geometry and long wheel base REALLY make them hard work to get through cones, do U turns and generall do whats needed for lessons and test.

Could carry on down the list; but you get the idea; moving away from the regulation 'learner-coimmuter' you are frequently loosing more than you gain, or paying through the nose for it, or both!

The old CG125 is worth mention; now a 'Cult' bike, the 'decent' £300 CG, is a long lost myth. With the reputation of being bullet-proof or nie on indestructable; too many have become victims of thier own reputation; bought as cheap learner-commuter wheels, with 'low maintenence' becoming 'no-maintenence' owners loath to spend money on a bike they dont intend to keep,m and only bought because it was cheap. Decent ones now fetch particularly 'daft' money for what they are, on the legacy of the reputation; and you can spend as much on a half tidy CG as a much newer and probably more useful YBR. Down in the bargain basement; they are flogging scrappers for the money that would get you road worthy (if not 'nice) wheels of other make or model.

Yamaha YZF R125; the latest four stroke Kiddie Go Kwik, must have teenage loonie bike; Few on the second hand market becouse they are so new; Still close to £5K show-room price. All looks not much performance. Compromised like an Aprillia for rideability, without the boon of cheap power doubling de-restriction. Bit easier on consumeables though; but already seen bikes out there 'written off' for a low speed spill just cracking the fairlings! All for the price of a Suzuki SV650!

Honda's CBR125, by comparison makesa a lot more sense if you want that 'kind' of style. Its not the full monty, and CBR doesn't make much pretense at being more than a lamb in toys r us wolf-cub outfit. Not as compromised for rideability, but still 'some'. Easier on spares and service, but still more expensive than pure commuters; but does offer a couple of extra mph. And costs CAN be 'not so bad' rated against learner commuters; they are another variation on the compromise, and not skewing it so far, not prove too hard a one to bear, but its still a compromise.

So into the bargain basement; Mentioned CG's. But loads of different 'stuff' in there. And most of it, I would find hard to reccomend to a complete newbie, simply becouse so little is in useful, reliable, confidence inspiring condition. There are some machines worth thought though.

Chinese bike-in-a-box; £900 new, they are dirt cheap second hand; usually with good reason; they have fallen to bits! BUT, if you have some idea how to tighten bolts, adjust bearings and dont mind getting your hands a bit dirty; or even masocistically enjoy it (like me!), for £3-400 picking a bike thats managed to get through at least one MOT, and you can ride value out of it, as long as you dont expect the full performance of Jap branded bikes, can buck the odds and prove cheap long term commuter wheels.

If you JUST want a bike to get experience on, possibly do some training; you dont want to use it for tests; hiring a school bike, possibly a DAS bike; then the sub 120cc machines can be very useful.

The old 80's Two-Stroke 100's were great little bikes; Until early 90's you could take tests on them, but rule change means that for last twenty years if you want full A-Group you have to test on full size 125. But when they were testable; they offered almost the performance of full 125's and a lower insurance group, and frequently lower running costs. Still offer that; BUT like the CG, bought as budget learners, often didn't get the maintenence they deserved. Have thier fans now though, and again, if you know a rubber band from a power band and spannies from spandex and dont mind getting your hads dirty or enjoy it; they can be bought for reletive penies, and prove easy mechanics and a lot of fun.

Its in my sig-line; Honda CB125 'Super-Dream'; ought to mention it. Probably the most thoroughly considered; best engineered, most sophisticated; most capable, 'Do everything' Learner 125 ever made... it was concieved as a sports-bike to go head to head with its two stroke rivals of the era on performance; and it succeeded. Concervatively styled, it was intended to still be comfy and give you a command riding possition like a commuter, with good balence control and visability, BUT still be comfy and comfy enough for long er runs, even touring..... it was a great bike.... but looked boring and it was over priced... and today, big grin factor for masocists like me to get one working like it should... I have done two this year... but GEEZ! Been a heck of a lot cheaper and easier to have just bought YBR's! Most out there are pretty dire; I know I own most of them!

Also in Sig line, Yamaha DT125. Its a legend. Mines a late 70's air cooled model. Actually more powerful than later water cooled bikes in restricted form. Mine is a classic. But they are all 'road bikes' with knoblies, more at home on tarmac than dirt, and main atraction is the reletively reliable, and easily tuned two stroke engine that can offer around 20bhp, and not blow up as often as things like Aprillias or Cagivas. Hold value well, and work pretty good for a dirt bike. BUT, compromised being a dirt bike, and the later ones especially are no where near as mechanically freindly as other options, while most will have suffered the tuning attempts of teenage tits over the years, and can be a 'challenge' to scrub up and make good!

YBR's aren't the be all and end all of Learner-Bikes, and I dont make the kind of comments people are want to, like they do about CG's, that they are tough as boot, or you cant go wrong with one.

They aren't indestructable; and you can buy a lemmon as easy as any other bike. BUT.... on the whole, they are a damn well balenced compromise, and almost perfectly optimised as a learner-commuter, and possibly the least risk, best value route into motorcycling...

But they are a washing machine; a tool for the job, and not hugely inspiring for anything BUT doing the job, and doing it cheaply.

Great if you have the money to buy into that bargain; and you are happy to make those short term sacrifices having somethiung so utterly utiliterian, for long term gains of making it cheap and easy to get licence before stepping up to something more exiting.

Otherwise; there are plenty of other alternatives; to suit budget and aspirations, that can work, or be made to work just as well for any one.

But the YBR DOES set the standard for them to meet....

Battery acts as charge reservoir; capacitor acts as charge damper.
Imagine a capacitor as a spring in a brake line; transmits the force but takes out any shock in the line; where a reservoir would accumulate pressure and let it be used for longer.

I have 6v electric Yamaha DT, and am messing around with a 12v pit bike regulator, to convert to 12v. Generator is supposed to chuck out enough volts, and using both coils, the charge circuit and direct lighting circuit, ought to provide enough amps to keep small 12v battery charged to power 12v lights without the low rev 'drop of' direct lights suffer, while 12v offers more compatability for modern upgrades like LED's to lower power demand and make more juice available; possibly even a PIR headlamp for more light without less amps still.

This may be possible on the CB125 single's generator.

Alternatively; sticking with 6v, knowing 6v systems of old, even with a battery low rev lamp dimming is a pain. Many bikes of the era ran 'direct lights' so they didn't get any top up from the battery so were entirely dependent on genny revs for volts; battery only powered occassional equipment like horn and indicators.

Using a 6v regulator, possibly from an early 6v CB200 Benley, and routing direct light circuit and charge circuit through it to charge a battery to power all equipment, including lights, would be a good move, and make electrics more reliable.

Another alternative, still being toyed with for the DT, is if the genny and pit-bike regulator dont prove good enough to convcert to 12v... going 12v 'low amp' conversion anyway, using LED bulbs for indicators, dash tell-tales, side, tail & stop lamp, and a solid state low consumption indicator flasher, and a 35W PIR headlamp, and running the system 'Total Loss', having two batteries; one on the bike, one on charge in the house!

Lights dont HAVE to be self sufficient....

On a 78 model bike; you also don't HAVE to have indicators, and need only have the brake lamp work of one brake lever.

Two types of battery commonly out there

Standard batteries are wet acid filled. They have to be mounted terminals to the top or the acid sloshes out through vents.

'Sealed' batteries are often wet acid filled, but unvented. These tend not to have the charge/discharge rating of vented batteries, and are not usually reccomended for bikes or cars. Competition bikes and cars often use Sealed 'Gel' batteries that have an acidic gelly (yes basically you make a jelly like you would for a trifle of kids birthday party, but with sulphuric acid rather than water! And fill the battery with it!) More stable, can be mounted in any orientation to suit, and wont slosh acid. But expensive.

For your wants, I would sugest that a sealed, preferably gel-cell battery, of the same or greater amp-hour capacity, would be more suitable. You can find a place to site it to convenience, and tilt it to suit. Meanwhile, need not be bigger than original; external dimensions can be smaller on modern batteries.

If you are not putting heavy charge or discharge rates on the battery; if you have currently a direct lighting system, battery charged by excess genny amps at a trickle to power indies and horn, you probably could get away with a 6v 'sealed' burglar alarm battery; these are fairly cheap on e-bay, but check Maplins for specs and dimensions; they are designed to hawve very long service lifes, typically around ten years, but with very low charge and discharge rates, sat in a box on the side of a house providing independent suply for a lamp and claxon if the alarm goies off and the mains supply is cut. They are commonly de-rated for consumer products; thier life expectancy shortened, exceeding the specified charge and discharge rates, for use in things like car battery 'booster' packs, or kids ride on toys and stuff; Charge rates exponentailly reduce battery life, so double the charge/discharge current, battery life drops by a quarter, BUT, you can go quite a long way before you are down to the one or two years 'life' of a conventional bike battery.

If you want least-fuzz, solution, keeping the electrics 'as standard' but able to put battery where you like; I think this is what I would suggest as most suitable; Burglar Alarm battery in the 3-5Ah capacity range your CB-J battery is likely to be in, probably barely any difference in price to the OE spec wet & vented battery.

Depends how adventurouse you want to get; BUT do have a think about going 12v. With low wattage LED's sucking milli-amps instead of amps, you can make a small capacity 12v battery last a long time, even if you run it 'total loss'; and you have far more scope to start choosing from far more 'standard' 12v equipment, thats often better and or cheaper than whats available in now rarely used 6v components.

The UK CB125TD- Super-Dream is de-tuned to the old 13.5bhp learner limit.
Unless it runs readily off the end of the speedo, it probably isn't making that due to normal wear & tear and neglect.
Well fettled UK 'Reduced Effect' models will top a genuine 70, and put the speedo needle well past the last tick at 80.

The 142cc big-bore kit is the largest piston size you can get into the standard 125 barel's liner. The extra 17cc is fuck all.

They can be bored bigger; other variants of the engine have been stretched by the factory as far as 233cc for the CM250 or CB-Two-Fifty. But not without machining the crank-cases to fit bigger liner barels.

Head is good enough to flow the air needed to make almost double the power of the Reduced Effect UK Super-Dream; so you cant really gain anything by trying to hack the ports bigger with a dremel; and the valves are about as big as can possibly be crammed in the combustion chamber as it stands.

What limits the power on them is the cam-shaft. And unfortunately, there aren't very many options here by way of after-market hop-up profiles. Best we have is the factory;s 'Full-Power' cam which, on a well built engine, and with properly set up and sized carbs can, on the 125 bottom end achieve 17bhp. However these cams are rarer than rocking horse do-dah. The correct carbs to go with them even rarer.

Can bore the thing as far as you like, really, even the whole hog, bored and stroked to 233cc, you wont easily better the power JUST that camshaft offers.

The biggest 'family' engine using the CB125's 41mm stroke, was the over-square screamer CB200 motor, whose barrels are inconveniently incompatible with the 125 bottom end, and which only just made same power as full-power 125.

The most powerful of the 233 engines was the CMX Rebel, that I think was rated at about 21bhp, running paired CV carbs, on a 360 bottom end. CB-two-fifty chucked out about 19 depending on who you ask, on a single carb, but crank-cases opened up, to take bigger barrels, long stroke 360 crank, these engines dont offer solutions to tune a 125 super-dream as micing bits between 360 crank and 180 crank engines will result in mashed valves the cam opening valves on an up-stroke when crank ought to be doing a down stroke.

So.... 142cc? For a tenner, it ent going to hurt; but any more power you may get is going to be mostly from new piston & rings and rebuild finding more compression, not the extra cubes!

But for a tenner?

Had three barel sets in the last twelve months and done as many rebuilds. I didn't bother with the 142 kit. Keeping the stock bore size keeps things a known quantity, and saves a few penies.

Budget around £200 minimum, for gaskets, cam-chain & barel kit. You are advised to swap case seals too. And worthwhile new cam-chain tensioner blades. While you have it apart you can get seriouse and start spending seriouse money; roughlt £200 to get crank presed apart and re-assembled with new bearings and then re-balenced. Then theres the oil pump, clutch (worth douing, new plates & springs less than £20), gearbox bearings, etc. All mounts up, and if you skimp 'too' much you as like have to do it all again!

TBH with that list you are on a break-point.

Its not worth £300 as a dire runner, though you might get it, if you are lucky. If it has tax and test, its worth £250 to a nieve optimist (or a not so nieve, but ever hopeful dissolusionist optimist, like me!)

Top end rebuild it, you WILL be spending £120, and its a bastard if they go together nice and easy... because if it goes together easy, means cam-chain is stretched and it WILL snap!

Add £50 for decent second hand exhaust, you are up to £200 region.

Value bike at £250 and you are nudging over the £400 'value' and you still haven't sorted tyres, or the bottom end, or I suspect a host of other bits its likely to need sorting, like brakes and steering bearings and fork-seals.

These things are worth around £750 top book, for a 'good' example.

You can get Taxed, Tested Runners for around £500... though possibly not THAT much better than what you have.

SO... chucking the sort of meney this bikes likely to 'need' chucking at it to make it 'reliable'...

Will you get the value out of it, becouse you are going to HAVE to get the value out of it by using it, you are unlikely to get it selling...

Skimp to keep it serviceable and make it up to scratch, yes, £200-£250, you are just about on tipping point.

If you want to do it justice and get reliability, you are looking more like £500 order to get that bottom end tended to and new cam-chain in there.

Either way, head will need stripping; guides, & valves checking. Valve stem seals renewing; valves ground; & valve seats ground.

Now I wouldn't necesserily be put off by all this; but I know the bikes, and have heap of ready spares. And my threshold would be £250 buy price + £500 'work' = top book bike... I might just break even on, and get some proffit in the use and playing with it.

NOW: bikes come and go and with 55 weeks to no more testing for full A licence on a 125..... I would be looking on any £500 I might scrape together to fix bike very hard and pondering.

£121.50 is the test-fees. £65 per session to hire a school bike to do them.

Flogging the Super-Dream as a scrapper/project would cover that.

Leaving you in hand by repair costs, to go look for something elce, that, need not be a 125.

I bought my CB750 T&T'd for six months for only £450; if you dont look glamourouse there are a lot of big bikes out there for that kind of money; and, yes, I agree they may not be any better than your Super-Dream, but you are in the bargain basement; and its beggers and choosers.

And ecconomically, unless you are very daft and or unlucky, you WOULD get a useable 'big-bike' with a bit more life in it than your 125 currently has, that IS more likely to prove more reliable than doing cheap-skate top end rebuild.

Super-Dream, if you want to percevere with it; you will have to do the job thoroughly; and do full engine build, even if you dont go too farf rebuilding cranks and stuff. Doing the rest of the bike, you will be looking at having to chuck in the order of £500+ to do engine, zorsts, tyres, and a few mechanical bits, like greasing rear suspension (If that needs overhaul, has any siezed links SCRAP, it really isn't worth fixing!) renewing steering bearings, reconditioning forks and possibly servicing brakes.

They are a fantastic Learner-Legal, and a very good budget commuter, BUT big investment to make one 'good' and only ecconomicval IF you run life out of it as people will not pay what these bikes are worth for a 'good' one, when they can for same money have brand new Chinky or second hand YBR.

From your extended list of works.... THINK HARD


I'm going to stick that one at the top of the list; I know you have put it at the bottom; you want reliable transport more; but...

£121.50 + £130 to hire a decent bike to do it on. You'd have to spend the £121.50 at some point anyway, if not on tests, repeat CBT, or testing for 125 only licence.

IF there's not enough money knocking about to get this bike how you want it; SHORT TERM, £130 for a School bike, is a lot more do-able, and gets that one OFF the books; clear.....

If that happened; would you STILL want a 125 commuter? Would you still want THIS 125 commuter?

Lets start by floating that idea?

£250... full licence....

Cutting losses, thats what you would get for the Super-Dream'...

Leaves you the £500 fix-fund to go look for a 33bhp restrict 'big-bike', and they are out there at that kind of money, and IF you want to fix up a bike, and a bike you are going to keep, then something like my CB750, may be more worthy a 'project'....

PONDER and tell me your thoughts on that...

Meanwhile; without burrying too deep into this ere Super-Dream.

WHY don't you want to take tests on it? You said exhausts...
You said it was running rough, but with shagged exhausts, would run rough.

COULD we get this bike scrubbed up to something a bit 'more' serviceable, without a major renovation?

I have big pile of ready spares; some of them not so 'wonderful', but serviceable.

IF we could get a replacement pip on the thing, and do some carb fiddling... do you think it could be made 'tidy' enough to do tests on?

If so... back to the top; tested; licence in your pocket, would you still want to chuck money and effort at it?

Tackling a Super-Dream 125, head on, and making something worth the effort; well, have a look at Snowies 'Top End' renovation blog on S&T... Build bill topped £2K and she has a borrowed engine at the moment; waiting on me finding funds and bits to build a top end, and tuned benley motor. Doing one that you would REALLY want to keep hold of, costs.

My Blog on the Corporal's renovation, is more doable. I did that one as an 'every-day' practical classic, and I tried (and failed) to bring it in for less than I sold it to Smiler (£750). With the advantage of that big pile of ready spares from the bikes I have broken. Realistically to 'do' a Super-Dream from a £250 'base', including an engine rebuild, you are looking at, £750-£1000, all in.

Your notional £500 budget to get your bike scrubbed up and make nice, is realistic, and you could do a lot; but you wont have a lot in the pot to pretty it up; that will just about tackle the main mechanicals, and ONLY if there are no 'biggies'. Biggies on these bikes:
1/ Engine
2/ Rear Suspension
3/ Front Brake

Rear suspension is £200+s worth if its utterly shot and needs major overhaul with new bushes and shock.

Front brake; its twin piston floating caliper. those two pistons double the overhaul cost, compared to most lightweights brakes. If you need to overhaul the master cylinder; replace the brake hose; replace the pistoins and seals; and pads, and disc,; this one sub-assembly alone CAN cost £200ish.

Engine; prices already mentioned; to 'do' the bare minimum from the cases up, £200 up.

Your budget, doesn't give you much room for niceties; like powder coating the frame, or nicely painting the shiney bits, or making it look 'factory' with decals.

You have all the pottentials I had with the Corporal, and the known starts that above what I did with the Corporal, you need tyres; £60 for hard cheapo's; £90 for nice grippy M45's. And exhaust. I had to find exhaust on the Corp, but uncosted; I took it off one of the scrappers. Front brake I wasn't happy with; again, I circumvented that with bits from a scrapper, and I was 'lucky' with the rear suspension; it coming up with clean and grease and again, shocker from a scrapper.....

THAT is what you are faced with. So back to break-point.

IF you want a CB125 Super-Dream, you have built, with all the satisfaction that offers, and rides really nicely, like they should, and is a joy to own, AND looks good, and LOOKS like its worth all the money and effort.... you are going to have to up the budget, to do some of the niceties, AND cover any maledies like brake or suspension...

So... to do your bike justice.... with a full licence in your pocket....

Is your Super-Dream, worth £1200 to YOU?

I can tell you now, that it wont be worth that to very many people who actually have that money, if you sold it, no matter how 'nice' it was when done.

If so; then yoru £500 budget would get things moving, but realistically, its the old 'double the money' tripple the time' addage. Doing it justice, you need to be prepared to spend up to a grand, over what is sitting infront of you here and now.

And, plenty of scope, if you get carried away, for those costs to escalate, unless you hold the purse strings tightly;

You look at the frame and see add for powder coating £45. Do a quick reckon, and tally up big can of smoothrite and some thinners, plus a couple of brushes and conclude its 'only' and extra £20 for a 'forever' finish.... so, while you are at it, you chuck the swing arm, suspension drop links, head-lamp bracket, steering yokes, indicator brackets, bar clamps, and a few other odds and sods like the centre stand, the brake pedal... and your powder coating bill, goes from £45 for just a frame, to £145, for everything else you COULD have painted out of that £15 can of smoothrite....

You look at second hand exhausts, and ponder similarly, when T-Shock pipes are only £50 a side, and again, brand new pipes; twice the price but more than twice the life.... but your £40 second hand exhuats suddenly becomes a £130, when you get the correct 'pattern' replacements for a super-dream.... but hey-ho, at least they are as shiney as the paint and decals, that has gone from 'a couple of £8 Halfords Rattle-Cans, to two £8 cans of primer, one £10 can of hi-build, two cans of £12 colour coat, two cans of £10 clear coat; one can of £15 petrol-proof laquer, AND £30's worth of vynal decals.....

And YES, 'Done' it ought to be a really nice bike to ride; something a lot more 'special' than a three year old YBR125 that costs the same money, and ought to have a lot more life in it; and be rather more exiting to ride than that or a CG125.....

But it will only be worth the money, let alone the effort to YOU.

It will NOT be a bargain; you will not make money on it; you WILL get a nice bike..... BUT, being realistic, you HAVE to be sure that you will get two to three years use out of it, to get any real value back from it all, before the sell price you might get isn't so gauling. And realistically, it needs to be a bike that when you do decide you want to move up; gets stuck in the garage as a souvineer of your efforts, and early exploits, you can afford to litterally 'write off' and not need to justify against travel.

I cant tell you what to do, and I have laid it out pretty hard, and made it look a non-starter.

Its NOT a complete non-starter. I do these bikes for fun. I would not be put off. BUT I do have some advantages. One is that big pile of ready spares. Other is I have done a few bikes before, including a couple of Super-Dreams. And while the Corporal cost me more to renovate than I sold it for; it was 'within limits' and I had eight months use of the bike, and learned a lot about super-dream foibles in the process, and well... you win some, you loose some, and I have another five bikes to 'do'.

In your shoes; more risk of budget over-run and problem magnifiers; but also better chance you COULD get the value from any excess expendature from use.

BUT, we are up into three year old YBR territoty, you really need to think about the real 'worth' beyoind the numbers and whether its worth it to you, AND nieve optimism dampened IF you can deal with a project of this order.

Helicoiling spark-plug holes?

Remove the Cylinder head; take the head, on its own to an engine re conditioners; and see what they say. If they dont do many motorbike engines, they may refer you to some-one that does, becouse Super-Dream has small plugs, they may not have drill, taps and coils to do; BUT they will tell you who does.

Fall-Back; if you end up heding down to me to root through ready-spares; I have a very helpful engine reconditioners on my door-step; and if they cant do it; can probably find a replacement head in the pile of spares! (I have clocked a rather scruffy Micron 2-1 system, that's been plated and pin-hole puddle welded, in a couple of places, but is serviceable, and may be some use to you!)

CBT is compulsary basic training; it is not a 'test' but your first riding lesson.

Certificate of completion validates your 'provisional' licence entitlement; is the provided for you to LEARN, not scoot about for the next tow years thinking its the be all and end all.

Motorcycles are THE mjost dangerouse form of motorised transport on the roads, YET the only bludy vehicle we let complete newbies out on, unsupervised. before passing a competancy test.

JUST becouse the bike is small does NOT mean its any 'safer'...

It has two wheels and en engine that ought to be able to get it up to maximum allowable speed limits in this country, or at least pretty bludy close, and out-accelerate most family saloon cars and goods vehicles.

May be small, may be ridiculed, but they are propper motorcycles.

Meanwhile, the light weight; great for making learning easy, becouse its more manageable when you are still a bit wobbly and getting the balence; also doesn't damp any clumsiness in your control inputs so they show up your mistakes and help you correct them and get smooth, fairly easily.

But, they take more effort to ride, needing more work from you due to having so little power, and less weight means they are less inherently stable.

Great for learning, which ought to be the objective.

125's are ecconomical, to a point. More sporty ones can actually be more expensive to run than big bikes. But 'sensible' commuter bikes up to about 500cc can offer some savings over an ecconomy car, and some over 125 commuters can actually be more ecconomical than 125's.

125's being learner legal are horendousely over priced. £800 will get you a tired Honda CG125, I personally wouldn't reccomend* or a ratty YBR125. Same money in the big bike world would buy you a pretty good GS500, half that, a pretty stunning CD200**.

Insurance on 125's; due to being the bikes crashed by learners, is heavily loaded too. My DT125 costs 50% more, a year to insure than my Honda 750, more 'humble' CB125, only £10 less than the 750!

125's tend to be owned by Learners. By defanitiuon, few have much experience or know how, either riding or looking after bikes. They are also of limited performance. AND they are lightweights; build down to a quality to keep prices reasonable and the weight sensible.

Consequently, they are NOT built to 'last' like a high mile, large capacity tourer, and demand a lot more frequent maintenance. Though usually it is fairly undemanding and inexpensive, but they still need it.

They are then bought and ridden by learners; who are shall we say less than 'delicate' with them; making clumpy gear changes, and being heavy handed on the brakes, and endlesly practicing for tests, accelerating away from junctions, braking up to round abouts, doing e-stops, and generally working the bikes hard... and frequently crashing them.... and thrashing them.... AND being just as delicate and sympathitic about the maintenence.

125's have a hard life. They cost a lot; because more people want them than have them for sale; and many of them, newbies remember, wouldn't know what to look at when buying one, or which bikes to walk away from.

And every-one wants a 'bargain'.

Trouble is, when you are learning; you want the best damn wheels under your bum you can get.

Last thing you need when you are a wobbly early rider, is a bike doing some wobling beneath you on its own account, becouse its suspension if clapped out, ot it's bearings buggered, or its frame not straight.

You'd never know whether any thing 'not right' was you, or the bike, or whether thats how things ought to be!

Decent wheels eliminate the variables; and let you get on with the business of learning to ride, and make it a lot more enjoyable.

Unfortunately £800 is only JUST above scraping the dregs of the barel. Benchmark for value for money is a three year old, first MOT fresh Yamaha YBR, that's just young enough to have some confidence its mechanically sound, but just old enough to have a realistic price tag (about £1500) and give you least cost of ownership, needing least maintenence & repairs, and having smallest depreciation.

We also haven't mentioned 'Kit'....

You NEED to be legal a propper motorcycle helmet. They start at around £30, but you buy by fit, not price. A hat that doesn't fit dont save your head, and one thats uncomfortable or mists up, can be worse than useless. Budget up to £150 for a 'decent' hat. If you can get one cheaper that's a good fit, and has decent visor & venting, treat saving as bonus.

Now look out the window. Its December.

You will want, a decent set of wet weathers, some decent riding boots, and some bludy good gloves.

Start with the gloves. Budget another £50-£80 for good gloves. Keep your hands warm so you can control the bike. Also save skin when you fall off. Dont skimp on them.

Boots? Cheapo's start from about £40, and go up to hundreds. £80 ought to get you something fairly warm and moderately water-proof.

Rest you can skimp on if you want. Army surplus stores, and industrial clothing shops can chuck up useful waterproof over torusers and jacket or 'containment suits', that may be cheaper than an all in one bike-suit, though likely to be billowy and baggy in teh wind.

Dedicated biker water-proof over suits tend to be in the £30-£80 region, and are worth the investment.

Under them you can bulk up for warmth and protection with layers; again Army surplus can be useful.

Dedicated biker wear; you are looking at maybe £80 up for textile or leather riding trousers, £100is up for a textile or leather riding jacket.

I advocate avoiding the 'Rhino' or 'akito' 'My First Riding Outfit' all for under £200, boots, trousers, jacket and gloves; especially leathers, even more so this time of year. Leather is niether warm nor water-proof, and its 'protection' is great on a race track, sliding for long distances accross uninterupted tarmac, but on the road, where a slide is likely to be halted pretty soon by something hard and unyeilding, practicality of textiles, is worth while trade off.

So... whats the Total? Realistically, you could easily blow half your £800 budget JUST getting kitted out in bike wear....

Have you factored this into your calculations? Its a big investment; especially if it turns out you cant stand the cold and the dark and the misery of winter riding!

And then there is that 'after CBT'. what beyond your ;first lesson'?

FORGET you can drive a car. Does NOT put you ahead of the game; does not mean you will be a 'safe' rider, and its 'just' getting used to a different vehicle.

As a CBT instructor I have tought FAR too many car drivers to let that presumption be made.

Yes, you have a familiarity with the roads; but almost certain you will also have a lot of bad habbits, and when you start riding a bike, you will almost definitely try reverting to 'driving' the motorbike, rather than riding it; and there are loads of car-driver habbits that you will have to break, to start 'riding', which can make it HARDER for you to learn, and be tought.

Approach it with an open mind. Do not believe you have any 'advantage' or you already know stuff. You WILL know stuff that is transferable; but use that knowledge when it rears as a heads up to enquire, and make comparisons and FIND the differences,

And; you have got a car licence. You wouldn't expect to be allowed to jump straight into a car and drive it, on your own, unsupervised after just the first lesson; and you already KNOW that you did MOST of your learning to drive AFTER you passed your test.

And you are clambering onto a vehicle with the soft-bit (you) on the outside. Helmets, gloves leathers do NOT make you safe.

They are the last line of defence; they dont stop you getting hurt; just limit how much it's going to hurt when all else has failed.

Primary protection; first line of defence, is hazard awareness. Spotting Danger and NOT GOING THERE!

Secondary Protection; Hazard avasion; SHIT! Just got myself into danger/Some-one just shoved me into danger... how do I get OUT of danger!? BRake, steer, accelerate, control the machine, DONT let the accident happen.

Tersiary protection: last l;ine of defence, all else has failed; you didn't spot the danger, couldn't get out of the danger... Oh FUCK this GONNA hurt.... hat, gloves, coat... all it will do is save SOME of that hurt.

We survive on our wits.... keeping these about is us THE most important safety aid we have; and it starts by making sound and informed decissions, and managing risks.

FACT; you stand three times the risk of crashing a motorcycle than you do a car.

FACT; if you crash a motorcycle you are three times more likely to be seriousely injured or killed.

FACT; as a LEARNER rider, you are at LEAST three times more likely to crash than a qualified rider, who is still probably three times more likely to crash than a rider with more than three years continiouse riding experience.

SO.... back to this idea of getting a bike and taking to the roads after JUST the first lesson?

Is that a great idea?

Training & tests. get OUT of that initial danger zone as SOON as you can. Not a lot else you can do apart from keeping your wits about you.

And; soon as you have a full licence; you can dump the bludy L-Plates, consider yourself a 'propper' biker, and door is open to all manner of machinary, to suit all maner of means and aspirations. Big Bikes, Small Bikes, Inbetween-Bikes; Seriouse Bikes, Silly-Bikes, expensive bikes, cheap bikes, WHATEVER.... choices abound, and it only gets better. But the licence is the key to all.

[Ollie125]

Thanks for your replies, the rings/pistons/rebore all all definitely correct. The oil level is also correct. I also replaced the stem valve oil seals, cleaned the carbs (reconnected the choke link). I`ll take a photo of the plug when I get the sockets from my dads this evening. (Although it came out yesterday and was slightly black- they are new plugs). Interestingly the bike is very hard to start just on the right cylinder alone. If it helps I have attached a photo of the smoke with the bike at around 2K (more smoke if RPMs increase)


(I cant attach the photo, the smoke is a white, fairly clear, and increases with RPM)

[Ste]

And; soon as you have a full licence; you can dump the bludy L-Plates, consider yourself a 'propper' biker, and door is open to all manner of machinary, to suit all maner of means and aspirations. Big Bikes, Small Bikes, Inbetween-Bikes; Seriouse Bikes, Silly-Bikes, expensive bikes, cheap bikes, WHATEVER.... choices abound, and it only gets better. But the licence is the key to all.

* CG125's: Note comments about How hard 125's live. CG has been out of serial production now for about 8 years, which is roughly the anticipated service life of a 125 commuter. They last longer, but service costs and demands tend to be high. CG's reputation is also that they are 'indestructable' or 'you cant go wrong with a CG'. They aren't and you can. The reputation has inflated prices significantly in recent years; while as they have ceased making any more, pool has been getting gradually smaller and into generally worse state. Bit problem with teh CG125 is that too many are the victim of thier own reputation; and 'llow maintenence' is read as NO maintenence; while, the idea you can buy one cheap, and flog it for what you paid for it, has been stretched to rediculouse levels, where people expect to buy them for a few hundred quid, and then sell them for MORE than they paid, to cover teh costs of all teh bodge repairs they have made when they have broken becouse they were old and clapped out to begin with, and they did no preventative maintenance. They are not a 'bad' bike, but these days, personally I would avoid.

** The Honda CD200Benley, is probably about the Cheapest wheels you can possibly get at the moment. They haven't made them since the early 90's or so, but many very well looked after examples survive and fetch pennies on the second hand market.
£400 can get you something very very tidy. They are a four stroke twin, of 198cc displacement. Tuned for ecconomy, they have only about 15bhp, barely more than a sporty 125. But they can better 125 ecconomy, the extra cc's giving them that bit more 'grunt' meaning they dont have to be thrashed so hard to go as fast.
Reason they are so cheap, is few want them. Any-one with a full licence needed to ride them; usually want much more performance for thier money. So they are cheap to buy, and very very cheap to insure. And as such, set a bench-mark for just how cheap, cheap biking can be. BUT you need a full licence.

Riding 125's; twenty years ago, I had Shoei lid; and was remarkeable how people would nod, THEN do a double take as they saw I was on a tiddler... bike was nicked and crashed a while later, and through seperate insurance claim; Uni digs from hell were burgled; I got household Ins to buy me a top of the range Shoei GRV GP replica, the Wayne Gardner paint distinctive and imedietly 'Expensive Hat'.... just got cash to fix stolen recovered bike, and slapped on a Power-Bronze twin headlamp full fairing, in place of the mish-mash of seperate bits Kawasaki fitted, which individually were responsible for it being deemed a 'total loss', and cheaper to replace them and the mangled lamp brackets and missing lamp with the Power-Bronze 'Dustbin'.... that made it look rather like a contemprary GSXR! (not intensional in any way; just worked out like that!)

Now, I'm not a safety jockey; I dont always ride in full leathers, nor even a full face helmet; and I do find it amusing, how I get ignored or nodded, depending on whether the bike I'm on has L-Plates and what I'm wearing, and by who!

Honda CB125...

Leave the L-Plates on becouse I'm, fault finding for Snowie, and probably in overalls and an open face, NO-ONE aknowledges me if they can avoid it....

Though, I did ONCE get a BIG thumbs up from a ZX6 pilot, becouse, when I took hand off the bars to remove fag from my mouth and flick the ash.....

Swap open face for full face and my overalls for jeans & BLJ... I get the odd nod...... and even the occassional one from cruiser riders.... though more often if I'm in Jeans & BLJ with open face.....

Chuck the full leathers on, becouse its cold...... suddenly sportsbike riders start aknowledging me.

I merely find it amusing; I dont wave.... hands are usually best kept on the bars (except when flicking fag ash... which is a safety measure, not good to get hot ash in your eye!); but do nod or flash.

But, intreguing to know, that unless I 'instantly' look like YOUR kind of biker, by way of what I am wearing / riding...... probably wont get the time of day from you......

Ent the net great? Becouse here, you cant see what I am wearing (Be thankful for small mercies!) or what I ride... YET we all talk and get along, and aknowledge each other, even offer 'respect' via the khama system, to people we probably WOULDN'T nod to on the road..... a curiouse little notion to consider.....

Honda - CB 125 RS
1983-1986
https://www.motorbikespecs.net/images/Honda/CB_125_RS_83-86/CB_125_RS_83-86_1.jpg
Brakes
Front: Disc
Rear: Drum
Dimensions
Length: 1,960 mm (77.2 in)
Width: 745 mm (29.3 in)
Height: 1,070 mm (42.1 in)
Wheelbase: 1,285 mm (50.6 in)
Dry Weight: 100 kg (220 lbs
Fuel Capacity: 11.0 litre
Electrics
Voltage 12v
Spark Plugs (Iridium) NGK DR8EIX
Engine
Type Air Cooled 4 Stroke SOHC Single
Bore x Stroke 56.5 x 49.5 mm (2.224 x 4.335 in)
Compression Ratio 9.2 : 1
Displacement 124 cm2 (7.53 cu in)
Lubrication System 0.8 litre
Transmission
Sprocket front 16
Sprocket rear 36
Chain Number of Links 108
Misc.
Motorcycle Style ROADSTER
Tyres
Front: 275-18 Tubed
Rear: 300-18 Tubed
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bike was a revamp of the earlier CB125S & CB125J of the mid '70's, using the faithful little Overhead cam single, which had been deemed rather 'fragile' tuned to the extent it was in the early drum braked 125S, to deliver 12bhp. The 'Street-Scrabler' variant of the 125S, the SL was slightly de-tuned to 11bhp and provided the basis for the later, 'bullet-proof' as long as they got thier oil changed XL125 Dirt-Bike, from which Honda took the engine to motorvate the CB125RS.

Its related to the CG125, in as far as that was essentially the original 125S, fitted with retro-tech push-rod engine, delivering 10bhp, for 'developing' markets.

But the 125RS was a 'little gem'. More powerful throughout the rev range, and lugging 15-25Kg less mass than a CG (depending on variant), was a very much more 'spritely' little device with slightly more composed suspension.

The 125 Super-Dream only had slightly more power, but was lugging around 25Kg more mass to get it. It was the 'faster' bike, though point to point there would not be much between them on anything but a fast sweeping A-Road. Super-Dream with more sophisticated mono-shock suspension, more powerful twin piston front brake, and that howling 12,ooo rpm motor would be a little more 'composed' doing it.... while a CG would need a brave or stupid rider to try and keep them in sight, his engine lacking the 'urgency' hauling out of corners, and wheezing when stretched to higher speeds, and getting VERY bouncy through corners..... Only time a CG was likely to go past either the 125RS or 'Duper-Dream was on the way into a corner..... with smoke coming off the inefectual front drum brake.....

A 125 Super-Dream, in decent state is good for a genuine, 70+mph. I have had one up to 70 two-up, and 75, solo, on GPS snail-trails.

The 125RS is probably only a couple of points off for top speed. Its certainly a 70mph motorcycle.

The CG125, is really only 'good' for 65, and favorable conditions that would see it much beyond that, would also benefit a125Rs or 'Dream.

The genuine article Honda CG125, is probably slightly quicker than any of the (chinese) copies it has spawned, and they PROBABLY are in the majority of modern 4-stroke bikes on offer today.......

Which really only leaves a handful of Japanese or European four-strokes for it to square up to.

Yamaha YBR125? Pretty good comparison. Yamaha's answer to the CG125, with its overhead cam SR engine..... 11bhp, claimed 70mph top speed, and 125Kg......

Its actually 'faster' at least on paper than the Honda CBF, which with a claimed 12bhp only manages a claimed 65mph.

The Water-Cooled, four valve CBR125, boasts more power, and a little more speed. On paper the full A1 complient compliment of 14.5bhp, and 72mph...... but carrying as much mass as the old CB125 Super-Dream.

The CBR on paper is within a smidgin of the Yamah YZF-R125, and that powers the Riaju, Derbi & Aprillia four strokes I believe.

There ISN'T a HUGE difference between any of them for performance, and that 70mph top speed, is all VERY condition dependent.... condition of the bike, AND road conditions!

That little 125RS.... its got the 'potential' to cut it with the modern kiddie-go-kwik bikes......

The 'old' Super-Dream, certainly has, and point to point, applying 30 odd years of experience to the job, have left some 'young-turks' on plastic-fantastics shrinking in my mirrors down the lanes.....

On the public road.... the differences in rider skill or stupidity, will almost always be FAR greater than the differences in bikes capability. A complete nutter on a 250 Super-Dream can go faster than Mr Cautiouse on a Hyabusa, for as long as he don't come off!

But between the four-stroke 125's, the capabilities are SO close you don't need to have THAT big a disparity in rider ability or prudence!

That little 125RS? specs are enough to put it at the table for sure. It may not have the bigger power number, but it does have a relatively big advantage in that VERY low weight.

But missing the point, this bike was ALWAYS about cheap thrills.....

Super-Dream was built to match the two-stroke sports bikes on performance and beat them on sophistication.

CG125 was built to match the two-stroke commuters for low cost, total utilitarian transport.

CB125RS was built to deliver a compromise between the two.

Nearly thirty years on? It's a pretty good place to start a project. That twin-shock rear suspension is simple and durable and easy to overhaul. The single piston brake, likewise useful. Forks conventional. Motor, rugged, and easy to work on.

And CafeRacer is starting in the right place tackling the bits that matter most, making sure it will stop, steer and handle.

If the motor hasn't got gummed rings or need a rebore, or a flat cam, or hammered tappets.... little fettling ought to see it find its old sparkle well enough, and the ingredients are all there, for it to have the potential to do its job, and offer a LOT of fun for not a lot of dosh.

Certainly more fun thrashing an old bike you have built, to within an inch of its life, thinking "Whey-Hey! I made it do this!.... I hope it doesn't blow up! What the HECK.... I can rebuild it if it does!" and taking another handful of throttle stretching the cable a bit more tryng to find some extra go.....

Than..... sitting on a plastic fantastic, going into a corner a bit hot, and thinking "Oh PLEASE dont let me drop it! PLEASE dont let me drop it! I CANT AFFORD to DROP IT!"

And of course.... sods law says... you thrash that little single, waiting for it to go 'pop'... it will keep on going..... terrified of cracking the plastic on an R125? Well, Murphey ENT going to let THAT opportunity for mischief pass him by very long!

I really want to see this bike on the road.... another derelict finding redemption. Another owner discovering the joy of creating what they ride.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Cafe? Indicators & stuff? much of a much, usually one bolt fitting, and where there's a will there's a way!

Front forks & headlamp stays? Universal ones can usually be packed out with strips of rubber cut from the old inner tunes you take out of them old tyres!

BUT here and now, multimeter, get the wiring all buzed out, clean all the contacts and connectors in the switches and everything; make sure your flasher is working, and that earths are earthing....

That is where the attension to detail will pay off, and reliability is most likely to be found. Wiring is a nif-naff niggling ball-ache that takes lots of time, and sees little progress, but well worth the effort.

If it has the Super-Dream tail lamp.... plastic casing with metal tube bulb holder.... DRILL through the casing, and put an M4 bolt through to make a direct earthing point, and solder it in place. Original earting arrangement is an ABORTION!

DONT be tempted to use generic crimp connectors for halfords ANYWHERE.... on old oxidised wire, its a recipe for faults and failures and the connector force is so often greater than the crimp force that they pull straight back off the wire anyway!

Go to Vehicle Wiring Products and order a couple of bags of 'Japanese standard' bullet connectors and sockets, and the insulation for them; get a good butane soldering iron and SOLDER them on where needed to get good electrical AND mechanical joints.

Get a roll of green wire and some ring terminals too, to make up 'garanteed' earth returns to the battery, from the common earthing point in the head-lamp, the chassis earth, and the 'one wire' components like the indicators... just saves answering SO many silly questions later!

Here's a helpful guide for rebuild.


OK, well, a month in, Christmas 'out of the way', and numerouse 'bugs' addressed, the bike was getting slower, not faster.
The quantity of blue smoke emminating from its tail pipe, was increasing almost in direct proportion to the decrase in speed, and down to 45mph, it was fairly clear it needed major motor attension.
The first 'Rebuild' was undrtaken.
https://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w269/teflons-torque/Little%20Dreams/104_0237.jpg
With the amount of smoke pouring out the tail, a rebor was almost inevitable. Priced up, a pair of pistons and rings are roughly £60, a rebore about £30, and then you need gaskets, so its a £100 job. Meanwhile, logistically, you strip motor down to the bottom end, thn hoik heads and barels to M/C shop and wait a week for them to be cut, while you twiddle thumbs, so an e-bay special barrel kit for £85, not only saves a couple of quid, but waiting around too!
And I had hoped to have the whole job 'done' from lifting spanner to take engine out, to putting spanners away, engine back in, in a day... in the end it took two, but still not bad going!

Engine out:
https://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w269/teflons-torque/Little%20Dreams/LD07%20Eng%20Build/imag1833.jpg
Rocker Cover 'off'
https://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w269/teflons-torque/Little%20Dreams/LD07%20Eng%20Build/imag1835.jpg

https://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w269/teflons-torque/Little%20Dreams/LD07%20Eng%20Build/imag1836.jpg
Breaker bar to 'crack off' each of the cylinder head studs, in sequence, then ratchet to wind them off.
https://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w269/teflons-torque/Little%20Dreams/LD07%20Eng%20Build/imag1837.jpg

https://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w269/teflons-torque/Little%20Dreams/LD07%20Eng%20Build/imag1839.jpg
Then the rocker assemblies can be removed to expose the camshaft, and the cam chain sprocket loosened off.
https://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w269/teflons-torque/Little%20Dreams/LD07%20Eng%20Build/imag1840.jpg
https://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w269/teflons-torque/Little%20Dreams/LD07%20Eng%20Build/imag1844.jpg
Removing the cam chain is err... fiddly! But then the cam can be withdrawn from the sprocket and head.
https://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w269/teflons-torque/Little%20Dreams/LD07%20Eng%20Build/imag1846.jpg

https://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w269/teflons-torque/Little%20Dreams/LD07%20Eng%20Build/imag1850.jpg
Then the Cylinder Head can be lifted off.... then the barrel. (Makes it all sound SO! easy!)
https://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w269/teflons-torque/Little%20Dreams/LD07%20Eng%20Build/imag1851.jpg

https://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w269/teflons-torque/Little%20Dreams/LD07%20Eng%20Build/imag1852.jpg
Cylinder Head studs loosened off with clever 'cam' action stud wrench, then removed.
https://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w269/teflons-torque/Little%20Dreams/LD07%20Eng%20Build/imag1853.jpg

https://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w269/teflons-torque/Little%20Dreams/LD07%20Eng%20Build/imag1854.jpg
Gudgeon pin removed from piston, and the pistons removed

https://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w269/teflons-torque/Little%20Dreams/LD07%20Eng%20Build/imag1855.jpg
and the base gasket face cleaned up.
https://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w269/teflons-torque/Little%20Dreams/LD07%20Eng%20Build/imag1856.jpg

Time to strip the head.
https://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w269/teflons-torque/Little%20Dreams/LD07%20Eng%20Build/104_0258.jpg
Smaller of my two Valve Spring Comprssors, was just about the right size, to remove valve collets and drop th valves out.
However, see later; during 'rebuild 2', I adapted it with an old socket and some pvc insulation tape to better gt on the tiny little valves!
https://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w269/teflons-torque/Little%20Dreams/LD07%20Eng%20Build/104_0259.jpg
breaking with convention, that says strip the head completely, and push valves through a bit of cardboard and number them as to whers they came from, and similarly try and organise collts and springs.... I thought 'bollox', lets just do ONE valve at a time!
Shown here, is the valve stem seal, which crumbled when I tried to remove it, and was possibly as contributory to the excessive oil consumption as worn rings and bore. The kit included new ones, so they were changed.
https://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w269/teflons-torque/Little%20Dreams/LD07%20Eng%20Build/104_0262.jpg
Next task was to 'lap' the valves in on thier seats, which is a fiff-faff time consuming 'chore' using grinding paste btween valv and seat, and a 'sucker stick' to twist and press valve against stick and rub the past in to grind a nice smooth sealing face, and get a good seal.
This removes any 'deposits' and ought to get rid of any light 'pitting'. Its NOT a 'valve & seat grind', that will take out bad pitting on the seats and put nice sharp sealing 'edge' on the valves.... but my local M/C shop wre not keen to do that job... they didn't have a set of grinding stones small enough!
Mind you, them diddy valves were not easy to get the sucker stick, intended for inch plus car valves onto, either! But I did it!
https://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w269/teflons-torque/Little%20Dreams/LD07%20Eng%20Build/104_0263.jpg
One valve 'done' and the valve refitted, three more to go!
When all THAT is done, can start putting it all back together.

https://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w269/teflons-torque/Little%20Dreams/LD07%20Eng%20Build/104_0246.jpg
Pistons, New & Old
https://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w269/teflons-torque/Little%20Dreams/LD07%20Eng%20Build/104_0253.jpg
As verything during rebuild, it has to be lubricated so that there is 'something' ther to protct baring faces when you first wind the engine over, before starting it and gtting oil pressure.
I use LM or lith grease on most barings and things like the cam-chain and rocker assemblies, as this gives a good 'coating' of lub that dosn't drip away lik oil would, and melts into the oil when the engine first gets warm. Increass oil viscosity a tad, but you ought to do an earluy oil change post rebuild run in anyway.
HOWVER, her I am lubing the pistons with Two Stroke oil. This is lightr than grease or engin oil, BUT has th major bnefit that it is designed to burn. So, lubing the piston and rings, on start up, it will burnb off more easily and not leave th deposits engine oil or grease would. Rings ar 'soft' cast iron, and often slightly pourous, and some people will soak new rings in Two Stroke oil before fitting. I did... wll, long enough toi make a cup of coffee, anyway!
https://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w269/teflons-torque/Little%20Dreams/LD07%20Eng%20Build/104_0247.jpg
Start with the bottom ring, and work up, BUT in th case of many four strok engins, they hav thre rings, the bottom one an oil control ring, or scraper ring, which is often actually a'compound' ring, as shown.
This has two very THIN and unshapd rings, and a 'wobble' ring or 'mesh' ring between them. Thse can b inordinatly fiddly to get on and in to the piston groove without braking or sticking.
https://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w269/teflons-torque/Little%20Dreams/LD07%20Eng%20Build/104_0250.jpg
Rings have to be GENTLY walkd onto the piston and then down the skirt into thir respective groove.
https://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w269/teflons-torque/Little%20Dreams/LD07%20Eng%20Build/104_0252.jpg
Then, built up, ONE gudgon pin fitted. Note the orintation of th piston; its often marked with an arrow and or 'Front' or in this case 'IN' in th valv pocket machining to align with the inlet valve... so that goes at the back of the engin then!
When you fit the pistons to the con rod, you will slid th gudgon pin in from the outsid, as THAT is th asier side to do it from, and you DONT want th pin coming straight out the othr side of the piston, or struggling to fit circlip to the inside, between all the barrel studs, so fit the INSIDE circlips before fitting to rods.
https://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w269/teflons-torque/Little%20Dreams/LD07%20Eng%20Build/104_0255.jpg

https://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w269/teflons-torque/Little%20Dreams/LD07%20Eng%20Build/imag1858.jpg
New Pistons fitted to the con rods
https://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w269/teflons-torque/Little%20Dreams/LD07%20Eng%20Build/imag1860.jpg

https://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w269/teflons-torque/Little%20Dreams/LD07%20Eng%20Build/imag1862.jpg
Base gasket and Cylinder head studs replaced, and the barrel fitted on.
https://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w269/teflons-torque/Little%20Dreams/LD07%20Eng%20Build/imag1863.jpg

https://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w269/teflons-torque/Little%20Dreams/LD07%20Eng%20Build/imag1864.jpg
Head Gasket goes on, and then the cylinder head.
https://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w269/teflons-torque/Little%20Dreams/LD07%20Eng%20Build/imag1865.jpg

https://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w269/teflons-torque/Little%20Dreams/LD07%20Eng%20Build/imag1844.jpg
https://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w269/teflons-torque/Little%20Dreams/LD07%20Eng%20Build/imag1866.jpg
Recycled photo or 'removing' the cam chain, because I forgot to take one putting it back on! Likewise refitting the cam chain sprocket! ALL after the idgery nadgery job of timing the cam in!
https://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w269/teflons-torque/Little%20Dreams/LD07%20Eng%20Build/imag1839.jpg
https://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w269/teflons-torque/Little%20Dreams/LD07%20Eng%20Build/imag1837.jpg
And more recycled photos, reversing the sequence, fitting the rocker assemblies, and the cylinder head bolts, after MUCH muggering about getting the cam chain tensioner aligned and bolted up! Cylinder head bolts given 'final' tightening with torque wrench, to book setting, of I think 20ft lb. Not shown because my capable camera woman had gone to bed!
https://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w269/teflons-torque/Little%20Dreams/LD07%20Eng%20Build/imag1835.jpg
https://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w269/teflons-torque/Little%20Dreams/LD07%20Eng%20Build/imag1833.jpg
JOB DONE.... for now!
All that remained was to slot motor back into bike.... A-gain... and set it up!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Take note; this shows the major sequences and procedures of the job. It does not show nut and bolt detail, or proviode specific cam timing instructions or bolt by bolt torque settings. Such detailed info is in the Work-Shop Manual, which is the definative guide, for which this is NO substitute, and to which I STILL have to reffer for such numbers and details when I do yet another one of these bludy engines, so if I need it to do one of these motors, habing done umpety of them before, chances are you'll be pretty lost, pretty quick without one too. Just think; manual is £15 and this would be a £300+ job if you had to pay some-one to do it for you. Its NOT a high price to pay for the specific detail information it contains!

[chris-red]

Ste, stop it.
____________________
Well, you know what they say. If you want to save the world, you have to push a few old ladies down the stairs.
Skudd:- Perhaps she just thinks you are a window licker and is being nice just in case she becomes another Jill Dando.
WANTED:- Fujinon (Fuji) M42 (Screw on) lenses, let me know if you have anything.

[Beehive Bedlam]