Anyone represented themselves vs court in a biking case?

[djrikki]

TL;DR

Crashed bike last year. Got court stuff through months later saying doing me with careless riding/driving. Witness evidence from car driver who's car I hit said I was driving round a bend on the wrong side of the road. I have video evidence from biker behind me I was on my side of the road but due to braking skidded across line and hit the car - therefor an actual "accident". Video also shows speed significantly under NSL for the road I was on, visibility shitty yada yada.

Went to intermediate thing yesterday and the PF want to push it to trial next month where 2 witnesses will say I was on the wrong side of the road and I will play a video in slow motion showing I wasnt.

Thats about the size of it - but wondering if anyone has represented themselves in something similar.

Thanks

R
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CBF125 (Rusty Bin) -> CBR125R (WeeBR) -> Yamaha XJ6 Diversion F -> Suzuki GSXR750 L1 -> Suzuki GSXR750 L1 (Mark2)
CBT: 01/11/13 - Theory : 01/05/14 - Mod 1 : 11/05/14 - Mod 2 : 14/05/14 - Yam Div F : 16/05/14 - Gixxer : 02/04/2015-15/07/2015 RIP - GixxerMk2 : 16/08/2015

[stinkwheel]

Disclaimer: I have no legal training and have only attended court once to represent myself in a case of posessing an uninsured vehicle.

So you came round a corner, skidded onto the wrong side of the road and had a head-on with another driver?

Was there a road defect or fault with your motorcycle that caused the skid? Did you mention this when questioned? (because it may harm your defence if you fail to mention to mention when questioned, something you later rely on in court). Can you come up with a good explanation for WHY (other than lack of skill/going too fast) you skidded onto the wrong side of the road

Or did you lose control?

If it's the former, by all means try for a not-guilty. Explain yourself with your best hoinest, open face. A vehicle defect in particular is a statuatory defence against dangerous/careless driving but you'd need to a) Have already metioned it and b) The police would need to have failed to verify such a fault existed.

If it's the latter, you might be better advised to go for an early guilty with mitigation. Write up a statement of mitigation and read it out. Be appropriately sorry, it would help if you had maybe done some further training or scrapped the bike never to ride one again etc.

Page 117 of this document shows what the magistrate will be working off in terms of sentencing if you are guilty.

Read up on the offence you are being charged with. In particular if it's dangerous or careless driving. I would always get professional representation for dangerous because you CAN be jailed for it.

Be aware of what they have to prove to the court. So for driving without due care and attention they have to show you exhibited:

1) Driving that falls below the standard expected of a competent, careful driver.

or

2) Driving that does not show reasonable consideration for other road users.


Personally, if you have a video showing you losing control of the bike and skidding into the path of a oncoming vehicle, I'd keep it to myself unless it shows a very good reason for that loss of control. A reason that isn't due to your lack of attention/skill.
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“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
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[doggone]

Even if the judge/magistrate was a biker it would be easy for the other side to suggest you lost control due to inattention (texting ) or excessive speed ("racing" with your friend).

They will come up with a distressingly one-sided barrage of reasons why it was all your fault and it will be almost impossible to counter this in a suitable way in the court - which is designed to intimidate to start with.
The other party will be a saintly careful driver, who has never been involved in any incident because they rarely exceed 30mph and furthermore the car is full of kittens.
The kittens were quite scared as you slid towards them, and may need counselling.

[FlightRisk]

OP skidded, so could the accident have been due to diesel or some other unexpectedly slippy road surface outside the riders control?

Probably don't represent yourself for this one though. Solicitors are tricky buggers. If it were me I'd be finding myself a specialist solicitor.
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Honda CB500S

[M.C]

If I remember the video you panicked and braked mid-corner which caused you to collide with the car. Personally don't see anything careless or dangerous about it but the way these things go you probably want proper representation.

I came close to going to court (settled the day before) although for an accident, not a driving offence. I was going to represent myself in court as my solicitors were trying to charge me for a barrister, and they were really unhappy about this.

Barristers/lawyer types are a bunch of mongs, but they're posh mongs, and I think this is why they come across better and are well received.

[c_dug]

Given this:

[drzsta]

As far as I'm aware there is rarely anything called an "accident" it's always someone's fault according to the police.
you lost control of your bike showing the video is just going to reinforce that opinion.

[Hahadumball]

get the video back up for us to see!
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[fraser2312]

[Pete.]

[BrownTrousers]

Not been on the receiving end but have been a witness in a case where a car driver was ultimately found guilty of careless driving, after drifting into the wrong side of the road and colliding with the car in front of me.

My understanding is careless driving is committed when the accused's driving falls below the standard expected of a reasonable, prudent and competent driver.

I believe (but I'm not a lawyer!) that this applies both when the manner of driving in question is deliberate and when it occurs as a result of incompetence, inadvertence or inexperience.

Given that, and my recollection of the video you posted, I don't think I'd be representing myself. As noted above, police are always keen to blame somebody and if you admit you cocked up and ended up on wrong side of road, (as opposed to suffering a mechanical failure etc) then I'd consider your words (and video evidence) carefully.

Best of luck.
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[goto10]

[Pete.]

[defblade]

[Ariel Badger]

Post deleted PM sent.
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Bikers make great organ donors, get 115 on your licence today.

[Rogerborg]

I would definitely try and wangle a freebie with a local motoring solicitor to discuss costs and probabilities, because all the facts aside, Careless is an almost entirely subjective matter, and they'll know the local Sheriffs and their prejudices.

Since you're a biker, and on a 150-ish mph sportsbike at that - regardless of the actual speed - I'd suggest that the table is likely to be tilted against you.

Have the police or Fiscal seen your video?

Did you give any reason at the time or since why you stood the bike up other than "derp"?

Have you done any training since the off, or can you show any way in which you've learned a lesson? You're on the same deathbike now, right?

Best case, you can show that the hostile witnesses are unreliable. I expect they over-estimated your speed as well.

However, the fact remains that due to nobody else's actions you ended up on the wrong side of the road and mashed up a car. Wow such PTSD, very lifechanged.

With the proviso that this is just spitballing, I would suggest either:
Lawyer up and make the Fiscal prove their case - if they show up, their budget is tight at the moment. It'll likely cost you more than the fine, but the goal would be to avoid a CD10 and 3 to 9 points.
Go guilty now, dress smartly, show the video in mitigation, one tiny misjudgement, ever so guilt-wracked, terrible consequences, now I only ride with training wheels, apology for wasting the court's time with this, is there really public interest in punishment? Hope for a token slap or even a discharge.

Trying to mount a "I ain't done nuthink" defence unrepresented could get you a shoeing from a bike-hostile beak.

But again, entirely depending on the whims of the Sheriff on the day.

Best of luck. And of course balls (well ball) to it, that would have been waved off as "civil matter, speak to insurance" if it were car-on-car without excessive speed being involved.
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Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike

[goto10]

[dydey90]

I'd at least talk to a solicitor first. I'm pretty sure that you're entitled to up to 30 minutes legal counsel at no charge, which should be enough to lay out some options for you.

Can somebody also provide a link to this video that we've heard so much about?
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This post is probably not serious and shouldn't be taken literally.
Past: CBR125,ER6f NINJA 650, ZZR600 Current: VFR750

[M.C]

I assume they're thinking it's this type of thing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjB9fszqXDI

[Ariel Badger]

[Ste]

The thread: https://www.bikechatforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=306951

The video seems to have been removed.

[Ariel Badger]

[Ste]

The text is everywhere.

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache%3Awww.bikechatforums.com%2Fviewtopic.php%3Ft%3D306951&oq=cache%3Awww.bikechatforums.com%2Fviewtopic.php%3Ft%3D306951&aqs=chrome..69i57j69i58.1398j0j4&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=93&ie=UTF-8

https://i.imgur.com/6I1P8uk.png

https://i.imgur.com/bJx00rl.png

[Marclev]

[yen_powell]

You'll need a wig.
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