Which bike next? HD XR1200, Buell XB12, ... ?

[snomag]

Hey,

So I've been thinking about getting a new bike, maybe around this spring. And since spring is just around the corner, I've started doing my research already. Not to miss out anything I thought I would ask you guys about your opinions on the following bikes, or if you have any other tips.

To give you a bit of an info on what I'm looking for: Something that has enogh power, enough torque (is that the right word?) even for
two people with some luggage. It would be used for commuting 60%, touring 30% and on the track 10% of the time. So it doesn't have to be a sports bike, but something sporty would be nice. Like the KTM SuperDuke, I loved that bike, and I hated selling it. Unfortunately I had to for financial reasons. Since then their price over here went up by a lot, and I'm not feeling like paying that much for one - hence why I'm looking for alternatives.

The alternatives should be similar. Basically something that's fun on the twisties, handles well and has an adequate amount of power. But it doesn't have
to be the best in all of these. I don't care if another bike is better in very specific scenarios, or can get around the track 0.2secs quicker. I'm not Rossi, and I don't want to race everyone all the time.

Okay, so after that intro, here are the bikes I was looking at. Obviously I will go on testrides, but it's
always nice to hear other people's opinion. And if you have any other tips that are roughly in the same price range, please DO let me know!
- Harley Davidson XR1200 - I know how people hate HDs here, but this one based on what I've seen so far, looks promosing. Seems to handle pretty well, looks and sounds good.

https://biser3a.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Harley-davidson-xr1200-pictures-7.jpg

- Buell XB12 x/s ? - Don't know much about them to be honest, but people seems to love it.. will have to look into it deeper.

https://www.lotustalk.com/forums/attachments/f68/110517d1233694000-carbon-fiber-body-2005-buell-xb12r-firebolt-12-typeone_xb12s_0817_3.jpg

Sooo.. thoughts?

Cheers

[Robby]

Those two would be top of my list.

Get test rides. They won't match up on paper and a lot of people that have never ridden either will tell you how awful they are.

Marjay had a couple of Buells, so I expect he will be along soon. I'm very fond of Harleys because they feel different to Japanese bikes to ride and I like the sound.

Both hold their value, but the Buell is probably half the price of the Harley now.

[MarJay]

Sheesh.

I'd say that unless you've got the motivation to look at the Buell yourself, I wouldn't bother.

Get yourself a nice boring Harley Davidson. Yeah, so they are corporate bastards who can't even see a decent product when one of their subsidiaries makes it, but that shouldn't matter a jot. It doesn't matter because you've got a Harley and people know what that is. It doesn't matter that the Buell is better to ride than pretty much any other air cooled twin. It doesn't matter that the brakes on the Buell will pop your eyes out, or that it weighs 175kg and the Harley weighs 220kg. It doesn't matter that the Buell will handle like a 250 GP bike (admittedly with a heavy lump in it).

None of that matters because all you care about as a Harley owner is the 'brand'. Which is convenient, because it's all Harley care about too.
____________________
British beauty: Triumph Street Triple R; Loony stroker: KR1S; Track fun: GSXR750 L1; Commuter Missile: GSX-S1000F; Cheap project: CBR900RR FireBlade
Remember kids, bikes aren't like lego. You can't easily take a part from one bike and then fit it to another.

[chickenstrip]

[MarJay]

Sorry I was a bit rude in my previous post.

I'll lay it out for you in simpler terms. One of those bikes is shit, the other is awesome. I'll leave you to figure out which one is which!
____________________
British beauty: Triumph Street Triple R; Loony stroker: KR1S; Track fun: GSXR750 L1; Commuter Missile: GSX-S1000F; Cheap project: CBR900RR FireBlade
Remember kids, bikes aren't like lego. You can't easily take a part from one bike and then fit it to another.

[Shaft]

Is that XB12 standard?

If it is, you aren't going to accomodate much in the way of passengers or luggage, so the XR it is.

No bad thing in my view, I'd have one.
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[snomag]

[snomag]

[madmic]

XB12... looks like it's wearing a gas-mask

Thats's bad-ass
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I gave up drugs to feed my biking habit...

[Az]

You want a bike that you can commute on, go two up and occasional track day which is similar to your old KTM Superduke.

KTM Superduke 990 : 120bhp, 73ft-lb torque, 180kg, 130 mile tank range.

Buell XB12 : 100bhp, 81ft-lb torque, 180kg, 145 mile tank range

HD XR1200 : 90bhp, 74ft-lb torque, 250kg, 120 mile tank range

Going off stat's, i'd discard the HD. In comparison to the Superduke and Buell it looks shit; down on bhp, down on torque, down on tank range & substantially heavier. I can't imagine it performing well on track (or being fun on the road to be honest) with it being 250kg with 90 bhp.

My only concern with a Buell is sourcing parts for them, servicing costs and reliability. I've never owned one or know anyone who owns one, maybe MarJay could offer an insight? Besides that they look like cracking bikes.

Why don't you also have a look at the below (assuming your budget is circa £5k based on what the XR1200 and XB12 are listed at on eBay). They may not have the same characteristics, but they fall within your budget and are good alternatives based on your demands from a bike.

Triumph Street Triple
Yamaha FZ1
Ducati Monster 796


Just my

[RhynoCZ]

From those two, I'd say the Buell. The one in the picture is not stock, so I'd look for one in factory stock condition, if I decided to buy one. I find the Buell interesting enough for me to buy it and not question my decision all the time. If I remember correctly, the only flaw is overheating rear cylinder on those, if stuck in traffic.

The Hardly a Davidson seems to be a bit too: ''What am I even doing here?'' kind of motorcycle. Air cooled engine form the late 30's in a tube frame, with thin front forks and everything just seems like something a European rider would do, if he was forced to buy a chopper.
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'87 Honda XBR 500, '96 Kawasaki ZX7R P1, '90 Honda CB-1, '88 Kawasaki GPz550, MZ 150 ETZ
'95 Mercedes-Benz w202 C200 CGI, '98 Mercedes-Benz w210 E200 Kompressor

[snomag]

[RhynoCZ]

Hungary you say, do you have a chance to travel to Slovakia, Czech rep. and Austria? A plenty of motorcycles for sale there. I thought the 'murican stuff was more expensive than the rest. At least the Hardly a Davidson is way overpriced here in CZE. People somehow figured out, that what's 'murican, must be expensive and ask silly money for anything HD related.
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'87 Honda XBR 500, '96 Kawasaki ZX7R P1, '90 Honda CB-1, '88 Kawasaki GPz550, MZ 150 ETZ
'95 Mercedes-Benz w202 C200 CGI, '98 Mercedes-Benz w210 E200 Kompressor

[snomag]

[MarJay]

Ok... This is gonna take some time.

First, and most importantly seeing as you mentioned it in your post, if you want a pillion don't bother. Stop reading now, and forget it. The XB12S has the smallest most oddly shaped seat barring the Honda SP2. The XB12R is probably better as the seat is flatter and more upright, but it's a marginal difference.

Reliability: Not fantastic, but not a total nightmare either. The build quality isn't great, so you need one that has been looked after. You can tell a Buell owner as they own large quantities of threadlock. The vibrations of the engine mean it tends to shed it's own fasteners, especially the belly pan ones. Engine wise it's fine. Highly tuned and highly strung, but it has hydraulic self adjusting tappets, it uses a fairly cheap oil, and oil filters aren't too expensive. It has a clunky 5 speed gearbox with a chain primary that links the crank to the 'box. This is fine too, although you need special seperate tranny oil for the gearbox.

There is a problem with the gearbox output shaft not getting too much lubrication, but if you plan to take it to high mileages (20k+) there is a grease nipple mod available to fix that. The oil pump has a nylon drive gear, and some people change it for a steel gear. I'm not sure if my current bike has that or not, but I'm not too fussed. This is my third Buell and I never had a problem before. Front Engine mounts are basically consumable because of the rubber dampers in them. On the plus side though, valves never need adjustment, no chain to adjust and the plastics are the same colour all the way through so if you scratch it you'll hardly notice.

Parts are starting to become an issue. I looked for ages for an after-market hydraulic clutch kit, and had to buy it from the states. Buells are HUGE in germany, so a lot of parts can be got from there. HD still support it nominally for another few years, but I get the impression they lost interest a bit, and parts prices have always been high.

I was hoping that EBR might take over where HD left off, but that went the same way as Buell, so unless a miracle happens it seems unlikely.

The Engine is very characterful, and puts out a real world 90bhp. It redlines at about 6k rpm, so you have to ride it differently to a Japanese 4, or even an Austrian twin. You'll hit the limiter on your first overtake guaranteed. Cooling can be an issue, so make sure the cooling fans work. Also don't do any easter egg/toy run/MAG protest type rides. The engine won't thank you.

The chassis is really the jewel in the XB crown. Taut, tight and stiff with excellent damping and a large amount of adjustability. Make sure you get an owners manual because they contain a table which tells you how to set the bike up for your weight. I set mine up and it makes a huge difference. The suspension is plush and with decent tyres lean angles are high. The brakes are eye popping and the bike is short wheelbase so it'll wheelie and stoppie a little bit too easily sometimes.

They are good bikes, but you need to go into ownership with your eyes open. If you treat it more like an Italian Classic than a Japanese UJM you should be OK. If you want something that you can hop on, ride and shove in the garage afterwards you might want to look elsewhere. However, the bike will reward you by being the most eager, characterful and fun bike you've ever ridden. The only bikes that come close to XB's in my estimation are the Triumph Street Triple R, which although it goes well, makes an awesome noise and handles like nothing else, it loses out on a bit of character. Alternatively a 250 two stroke would give you the same thrills, but without the mile munching capability or presence.

If you're not put off by that, then by all means buy a Buell. If you're not a home mechanic by any stretch and you just want a bike you can ride and forget then don't bother. Buy a Street Triple R and be happy.
____________________
British beauty: Triumph Street Triple R; Loony stroker: KR1S; Track fun: GSXR750 L1; Commuter Missile: GSX-S1000F; Cheap project: CBR900RR FireBlade
Remember kids, bikes aren't like lego. You can't easily take a part from one bike and then fit it to another.

[Matt B]

[trevor saxe-coburg-gotha]

Good mate of mine's got a Lightning and on the little go I had it pulled like a good 'un. Felt fantastic tbh. Bloody hell though it's a man's man's gear box. If you're used to selecting up and down a japanese gear box you'll be wrong footed - in the real sense of the term - when you hook under to come up for second. Good grief. Admittedly after that it doesn't really seem to mind too much what gear you're in - however you might be looking for some boots with reinforced uppers cos you'll be getting through five pairs of them Aldi jobs per season otherwise. If you can afford surgery for a replacement titanium big toe that's an advantage too.

Sounds great - can't remember what after-market job it's got on (something german iirc).

Isn't overly happy pottering around though and makes a funny spitting sound every now and again, and seems prone to missing or something. Shakes at idle but then smooths out under way thanks to the way the lump's mounted.

Looks amazing from some angles but pre-crashed / horrible bizarre from others. Oil in swing arm fuel in frame vast rotor belt driven weirdness ahoy.
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Mobylette Type 50 ---> Raleigh Grifter ---> Neval Minsk 125

[MarJay]

[P.addy]

I must admit, those are the 2 bikes I'd want to own with big twins in them, but I'm not the right owner for them. I like riding hard and fast occasionally...they wouldn't suit me at all

[snomag]

[MarJay]

I should add:

The finish on the Buell is not great as mentioned, and so if you commute on it you'll f*ck it. Also Spark plugs are terrifically difficult to replace and some mechanics drop the engine to do it.

The frame is the fuel tank, so it's not as tough in terms of impact damage as a lot of bike frames. It also has a greater side area, and has some weak points that stick out, and so can be damaged easily by a drop. If the frame is dented the bike is a write off.

I can't think of anything else off hand... but if I do I'll reply here.
____________________
British beauty: Triumph Street Triple R; Loony stroker: KR1S; Track fun: GSXR750 L1; Commuter Missile: GSX-S1000F; Cheap project: CBR900RR FireBlade
Remember kids, bikes aren't like lego. You can't easily take a part from one bike and then fit it to another.