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67 People As Wealthy As The World's Poorest 3.5 Billion

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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 17:42 - 18 Jan 2016    Post subject: 67 People As Wealthy As The World's Poorest 3.5 Billion Reply with quote
I heard this on the radio this morning. To put it another way, 67 people own the same as half of the worlds population. OK it's the poorest half but even so Shocked

It really is obscene but with the system in place - read money - you are always going to have rich and poor so I haven't an answer short of culling the poorest 3.5 billion to even the wealth out a bit (and giving the planet a chance at the same time Thumbs Up ).

The frightening thing is if you read the article tagged below, how quickly the ultra rich are getting richer.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/forbesinsights/2014/03/25/the-67-people-as-wealthy-as-the-worlds-poorest-3-5-billion/#2715e4857a0b1ff7776490ab

Brings back memories of my youth and the 'Come the revolution' anarchists. Laughing
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 18:23 - 18 Jan 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote
Usual answers: super wealth acts as an inflationary sinkhole. It's not real in the sense that it doesn't and can't represent Actual Things. What would you spend billions on? 'Art'? That's just trading bits of paper with faces for another bit of paper with a face on it. You can't go out and buy a billion dollah worth of burgers, the logistics are impractical. By vacuuming up those numbers, they increase the practical purchasing power of the numbers in your account.

Also, Oxfam, right? They're in the business of bawwing about inequality; it keeps them in a job. Did they also bang on about the top 1% apparently owning as much as the other 99% like they usually do?

Was that perchance being spouted by some Vice President of Marketeering on a salary very carefully calculated to stay just out of the Top 100 Fattest Parasites list, a whopping pension and a 3 bed semi in Crouch End? Obviously, not all of the 1% should have their wealth forcibly redistributed, just the immoral ones.
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Lord Percy
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PostPosted: 20:49 - 18 Jan 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote
Oxfam are the ones broadcasting the issue but Forbes' rich list speaks for itself, does it not?

The solution is in high taxes on high earnings (business and income) or even having an upper limit on salaries. There's no other way.

But nobody likes that idea because the press have pushed a constant anti-socialist agenda. Corbyn supports the idea of sorting out this kind of income inequality but the main public focus on him seems to be around nuclear missiles and how far he bows his head at memorial services. No surprise there since his ideals clash entirely with the extreme profit motive of all corporations, including the media who write about him.

Penny Coin Penny Coin
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Ste
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PostPosted: 21:01 - 18 Jan 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote
Lord Percy wrote:
The solution is in high taxes on high earnings (business and income) or even having an upper limit on salaries. There's no other way.

You don't make the poor richer by making the rich poorer.
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Rob Fzs
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PostPosted: 21:10 - 18 Jan 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote
Lord Percy wrote:
Oxfam are the ones broadcasting the issue but Forbes' rich list speaks for itself, does it not?

The solution is in high taxes on high earnings (business and income) or even having an upper limit on salaries. There's no other way.

But nobody likes that idea because the press have pushed a constant anti-socialist agenda. Corbyn supports the idea of sorting out this kind of income inequality but the main public focus on him seems to be around nuclear missiles and how far he bows his head at memorial services. No surprise there since his ideals clash entirely with the extreme profit motive of all corporations, including the media who write about him.

Penny Coin Penny Coin


Aye but even the guardian have jumped on the bandwagon and they're in 40 million of debt Laughing
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Last edited by Rob Fzs on 21:13 - 18 Jan 2016; edited 1 time in total
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Lord Percy
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PostPosted: 21:10 - 18 Jan 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ste wrote:
Lord Percy wrote:
The solution is in high taxes on high earnings (business and income) or even having an upper limit on salaries. There's no other way.

You don't make the poor richer by making the rich poorer.


You might do.

Skim a little bit off the top of the most extreme high earnings (not to mention the tax evasion that's already going on!). Redistribute it as a Universal Basic Income. Job done!
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binge
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PostPosted: 21:12 - 18 Jan 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote
[hippy/tree hugger mode]

Who wants to be the richest man in the grave yard.


Meh, we're all gonna end up there, who gives a toss about money. It's not real anyway.
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Lord Percy
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PostPosted: 21:18 - 18 Jan 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote
Rob Fzs wrote:


Aye but even the guardian have jumped on the bandwagon and they're in 70 million of debt Laughing


I do wonder what's up with the Guardian at the moment.

I guess in the end they're a profit-making news organisation like all the rest. They only write left-wing articles because that's the niche their rag is aimed at.

But if a socialist like Corbyn actually gets in they'll lose out too.

Guardian tax avoidance - no need to read the article, just look at the Twitter screenshots.
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Rob Fzs
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PostPosted: 21:25 - 18 Jan 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote
Lord Percy wrote:
Rob Fzs wrote:


Aye but even the guardian have jumped on the bandwagon and they're in 70 million of debt Laughing


I do wonder what's up with the Guardian at the moment.

I guess in the end they're a profit-making news organisation like all the rest. They only write left-wing articles because that's the niche their rag is aimed at.

But if a socialist like Corbyn actually gets in they'll lose out too.

Guardian tax avoidance - no need to read the article, just look at the Twitter screenshots.


Not sure Guido is a reliable source, lol

I think in the future, there will be a wealth tax, but you can soon get away from that by buying assets, like mr dyson has bought half of lincolnshire and the government can't do much about that, without hurting the not soo stinking rich.

It just pisses me off as a small business that we pay tax, while amazon etc pay fuck all, although starbucks have just paid more this year than they have in the last 7 so i suppose progress is being made.
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Ste
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PostPosted: 21:29 - 18 Jan 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote
I wish people would learn the different between evasion and avoidance, it would make everything else they say appear more credible.

If income redistribution is the right thing to do, how far do you continue down the road to communism?

An upper limit on salaries is capping aspiration and entrepreneurship.

Take a big chunk of money from the rich people and distribute it as a universal basic income amongst the poor isn't going to fix anything. Those very rich people will just rearrange their finances to reduce their contribution towards the universal basic income. Upper middle class and middle class people will be ones footing the bill despite the effort they've put in to get themselves to where they are.

Wink
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 21:41 - 18 Jan 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ste wrote:

An upper limit on salaries is capping aspiration and entrepreneurship.


I'd cap Bankers salaries. For no other reason I dislike the parasitic scum with a vengeance.


I sounded like Hetzer there Embarassed
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 21:43 - 18 Jan 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote
Lord Percy wrote:
The solution is in high taxes on high earnings (business and income) or even having an upper limit on salaries. There's no other way.

For the richest 66 people in the world? They'll just build island lairs. Which I guess would actually achieve the same goal by redistributing wealth. Thinking

What would you consider "high" earnings? Where's your limit on salaries?

Doctors have high earnings. Do they deserve to take home the same pay as the special mopping the floors?

Oh, and it's great how all houses and plots of land are exactly the same size so that we can all enjoy the rewards of our equal wealth to the same degree, regardless of whether we've worked for them or not.
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Lord Percy
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PostPosted: 21:47 - 18 Jan 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ste wrote:
I wish people would learn the different between evasion and avoidance, it would make everything else they say appear more credible.

If income redistribution is the right thing to do, how far do you continue down the road to communism?

An upper limit on salaries is capping aspiration and entrepreneurship.

Take a big chunk of money from the rich people and distribute it as a universal basic income amongst the poor isn't going to fix anything. Those very rich people will just rearrange their finances to reduce their contribution towards the universal basic income. Upper middle class and middle class people will be ones footing the bill despite the effort they've put in to get themselves to where they are.

Wink


You make fair points about the super wealthy just finding ways to avoid losing their wealth.

Although I think the salary limits wouldn't be quite so damaging to aspiration and innovation. We're not talking about some kind of Cuban system where doctors earn the same as street cleaners.

This video is interesting - What really motivates us
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Im-a-Ridah
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PostPosted: 21:51 - 18 Jan 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote
Rogerborg wrote:
Usual answers: super wealth acts as an inflationary sinkhole. It's not real in the sense that it doesn't and can't represent Actual Things. What would you spend billions on? 'Art'? That's just trading bits of paper with faces for another bit of paper with a face on it. You can't go out and buy a billion dollah worth of burgers, the logistics are impractical. By vacuuming up those numbers, they increase the practical purchasing power of the numbers in your account.

Also, Oxfam, right? They're in the business of bawwing about inequality; it keeps them in a job. Did they also bang on about the top 1% apparently owning as much as the other 99% like they usually do?

Was that perchance being spouted by some Vice President of Marketeering on a salary very carefully calculated to stay just out of the Top 100 Fattest Parasites list, a whopping pension and a 3 bed semi in Crouch End? Obviously, not all of the 1% should have their wealth forcibly redistributed, just the immoral ones.


In a statement, Oxfam said Lady Stocking was due to paid £119,560 in 2012/13 - which means that her pay increased by 19 per cent from £100,008 in 2009/10 "which is in the lower quartile of what other large charities paid for their chief executives". a lot of £3 per months.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/10224104/30-charity-chiefs-paid-more-than-100000.html

While we are about it, remember that someone goes out with a professional camera setup to take pictures of starving kids for their brochure to make Lady Shocking (probably Ms and feminist) her £120k.

They are racist too. No white men required here!

https://static.independent.co.uk/s3fs-public/styles/story_large/public/thumbnails/image/2011/11/27/23/Pg-9-oxfam-afp.jpg

Lord Percy wrote:

You might do.

Skim a little bit off the top of the most extreme high earnings (not to mention the tax evasion that's already going on!). Redistribute it as a Universal Basic Income. Job done!


It's easy to say, but it doesn't actually work because wealth is mobile. High earnings are fine so long as it's money earned doing something productive. What I disagree with is high public sector salaries in management type roles. I'm surprised at your lack of complaint over inherited wealth (over £1 million say).

Also, universal basic income is just a tax reduction across the board unless you are unemployed. I'm actually in favour of a universal basic income as it would mean we could sack most of the department for work and pensions staff! Instead of just looking for work though, unemployed people should be asked to go out and do something for their UBI too. No restrictions on what, they could do anything, so long as it's productive, useful and improves either themselves or the country. It wouldn't be worth verifying what they are doing due to DWP staffing costs.
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Ste
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PostPosted: 21:53 - 18 Jan 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote
Quote:
I'd cap Bankers salaries. For no other reason I dislike the parasitic scum with a vengeance.


If people didn't use their services then the problem would solve itself.

Much the same as the evil Tesco, Amazon, Google and all the other big names that people love to hate

Rogerborg wrote:
What would you consider "high" earnings? Where's your limit on salaries?

That's easy!! Anyone who earns more than Siggi is parasitic vermin scum.

Lord Percy wrote:
Although I think the salary limits wouldn't be quite so damaging to aspiration and innovation.

Why would anyone want to start a company in the UK when they could be more successful in another country?
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Lord Percy
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PostPosted: 21:57 - 18 Jan 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote
Rogerborg wrote:


What would you consider "high" earnings? Where's your limit on salaries?


Probably something like "X times the national average salary", whatever the public agrees is fair.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 21:59 - 18 Jan 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote
Lord Percy wrote:
What would you consider "high" earnings? Where's your limit on salaries?


Probably something like "X times the national average salary", whatever the public agrees is fair.[/quote]
You're King for the Day, no need to be fair. Choose your X.

Why would anyone earning more than X stay in the UK?
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Lord Percy
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PostPosted: 22:05 - 18 Jan 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ste wrote:

Lord Percy wrote:
Although I think the salary limits wouldn't be quite so damaging to aspiration and innovation.

Why would anyone want to start a company in the UK when they could be more successful in another country?


I suppose that gets into the argument that enterprise and manufacturing should belong to the state, but that's probably too extreme an ideology to be pushing onto the table at the moment Laughing
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Lord Percy
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PostPosted: 22:09 - 18 Jan 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote
Rogerborg wrote:

You're King for the Day, no need to be fair. Choose your X.

Why would anyone earning more than X stay in the UK?


Because X could still be pretty high.

And if they decide to leave, someone else can take their place. Or do you really think the big bosses of every major company don't have swarms of lower paid people chomping at the bit to be promoted up a notch?

I'd say 10x the average salary is good enough.

Last edited by Lord Percy on 22:13 - 18 Jan 2016; edited 1 time in total
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Lord Percy
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PostPosted: 22:12 - 18 Jan 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote
Im-a-Ridah wrote:
What I disagree with is high public sector salaries in management type roles. I'm surprised at your lack of complaint over inherited wealth (over £1 million say).


Oh I think inheritance isn't great either. But in the end that's just family looking out for each other. As is nepotism. Bad, but I think is harder to prevent because who doesn't want to help those closest to them?

Whereas when it comes to general business, employment etc, among people who often don't even truly care about thhose they work alongside, I think more could be done to address pay gaps and the likes.
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Ste
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PostPosted: 22:17 - 18 Jan 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ste wrote:
If income redistribution is the right thing to do, how far do you continue down the road to communism?

Thinking
Lord Percy wrote:
I suppose that gets into the argument that enterprise and manufacturing should belong to the state, but that's probably too extreme an ideology to be pushing onto the table at the moment Laughing


Lord Percy wrote:
And if they decide to leave, someone else can take their place. Or do you really think the big bosses of every major company don't have swarms of lower paid people chomping at the bit to be promoted up a notch?

They'd take their companies with them. So the poor would be unemployed and even poorer.

A quarter of income tax is paid by the 1% of highest earners so that'd be gone as well.

Nearly 300,000 taxpayers are forecast to contribute the equivalent of £45.9  billion in income tax between them by the end of this year, equivalent to £150,000 each. The amount they have paid has risen from 25 per cent of the nation’s tax bill when Labour came to power to 27.3 per cent this year.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 22:30 - 18 Jan 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote
So what does the (distant) future bring?

Utopia, where no one has to work and there is plenty for everyone

or

Soylant Green/Hunger Games/Elysium, where the elite rich live in luxury and everyone else lives in shit to keep them there.
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Ste
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PostPosted: 22:39 - 18 Jan 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote
If nobody worked then there wouldn't be plenty for everyone, there'd be fuck all for everyone. Laughing

People don't have to continue living in shit.
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ThoughtContro...
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PostPosted: 22:44 - 18 Jan 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote
Polarbear wrote:
So what does the (distant) future bring?

Utopia, where no one has to work and there is plenty for everyone

or

Soylant Green/Hunger Games/Elysium, where the elite rich live in luxury and everyone else lives in shit to keep them there.


Given that we're importing an ever spiralling number of refugees that will quite literally live in shit, and that the middle class is disappearing as the income gap widens and becomes extremely polarised, I'd go for the latter as a fairly safe bet
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 22:45 - 18 Jan 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote
Lord Percy wrote:
I'd say 10x the average salary is good enough.

OK, £265,000.

So, is that total remuneration? What about pensions, health cover, life cover, expenses (they're all on the fiddle, right?), other benefits in kind? Performance bonuses, share options. Selling your business, how about that? Selling your house. Why should you benefit from that, you probably just inherited it. Even if you worked for it, you don't deserve it.

That applies to sportsballers too? Singers? Actors? Doing some concerts in the UK? Sorry, wages are capped. Bad news, your Majesty, Aldi dog chow for the corgis this week. Good luck paying the upkeep on the estates. Maybe you can sell them to... hang on, nobody in the UK has any money.

If the argument is that not many people actually earn that much, and they're no loss anyway, then what would it achieve?

It looks like petty punishment of success.

Hang on, appeal to authority: ask a Nobel laureate about this exact issue.
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Old Thread Alert!

The last post was made 10 years, 2 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful?
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