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Rugby in schools - Children are delicate flowers?!?!

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CaNsA
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PostPosted: 06:14 - 02 Mar 2016    Post subject: Rugby in schools - Children are delicate flowers?!?! Reply with quote

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More than 70 doctors and academics are calling for a ban on tackling in rugby matches played in UK and Irish schools.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-35696238

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DrSnoosnoo
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PostPosted: 08:40 - 02 Mar 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

So our next generation of rugby players won't have done full contact tackling until they were 16.

Put them against a 12 year old Aussie kid and we'll lose ...
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 12:15 - 02 Mar 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jesus wept, no rugby tackling, no heading a football.

Better not snatch a kiss behind the bike sheds in case you get a slap. Rolling Eyes
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Nexus Icon
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PostPosted: 13:18 - 02 Mar 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wish they'd had that rule when I was at school. I used to hate playing rugby with a passion. I was really good at football but apparently we were a rugby school so we never played football in PE.

I swear I sometimes used to go a whole game without touching the rugby ball. Never call for a pass, never run towards a loose ball. There were some massive lads in my year whose sole aim, I swear, was to hospitalise as many people as possible on the rugby field.

Stupid game.
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UnknownStuntm...
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PostPosted: 13:18 - 02 Mar 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:
the bike sheds

"two-wheeled gathering points", you're not allowed to call them sheds now in case the connotations with gardeners, (both downhill and 'other') are applied.
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Lord Percy
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PostPosted: 13:32 - 02 Mar 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Instead of banning anything they should just make it optional.

Give kids a list of PE activities they can sign up to each term. Much more chance of satisfying everyone that way, surely.
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Im-a-Ridah
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PostPosted: 17:08 - 02 Mar 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not quite sure how you do Rugby without tackling. That is pretty much the sport isn't it? My personal favourite was piggy in the middle, 100% tackling. Being the last man standing is a pretty interesting experience, you've basically got to run into everyone... Laughing

Lord Percy wrote:
Instead of banning anything they should just make it optional.

Give kids a list of PE activities they can sign up to each term. Much more chance of satisfying everyone that way, surely.


That's what we had. Just do what interests you. I always went with weights in the gym.
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Irn-Bru
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PostPosted: 17:42 - 02 Mar 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Football was a lot more brutal than rugby when I was at school. We very, very, very rarely played rubgy and I'm sure the times we did it was a gay non-contact version. All we ever seemed to do was rounders (with a baseball bat and a massive ball) and football. Quite enjoyed rounders, the teacher always bowled and I managed to get him in the balls once Thumbs Up
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Poseidon
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PostPosted: 18:24 - 02 Mar 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nexus Icon wrote:
I wish they'd had that rule when I was at school. I used to hate playing rugby with a passion. I was really good at football but apparently we were a rugby school so we never played football in PE.

I swear I sometimes used to go a whole game without touching the rugby ball. Never call for a pass, never run towards a loose ball. There were some massive lads in my year whose sole aim, I swear, was to hospitalise as many people as possible on the rugby field.

Stupid game.


Character building. Whilst never one of the sporting gods of my year, I was okay enough to get by without being one of the ones to be picked last. Played rugby every winter and whilst I hated the thought of going outside to play on the frozen, frost covered field, I enjoyed it once I was out there. There was the usual dickheads who would try and injure you, but you could always exact revenge if they had the ball. I remember one big bastard who went out of his way to try and tackle me, usually digging a knee or elbow in once you were down. Later in the game, he had the ball and was right in my crosshairs... I flew into that fucker with every fibre of my being, winded him and sent him to the deck with an almighty wallop. He cried like a pussy and wanted to sit the rest of the session out. Teacher told him it was a legal tackle, man up and get back out there. He calmed down a lot after that. Bigger they are and all that.

I enjoyed my 90s education. I think we were among the last of the "like it or lump it" schools of thought. Nowadays it seems like every little thing that might upset a delicate little flower is scrubbed from the lessons in favour of an all inclusive, watered down, saccharine approach that makes them all feel like the special little unicorns they'll all grow up to be.
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Ste
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PostPosted: 18:28 - 02 Mar 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you don't like rugby then you're meant to make use of your education to figure a way to get out of it and do something else. Razz
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dydey90
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PostPosted: 19:24 - 02 Mar 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

At my school rugby always seemed to be played only in the middle of winter. Used to come away battered and bloody due to being tackled into the the frozen up wheel ruts left by the lawnmower. I swear you could shave with the edges of those ruts.

Showering was not optional, strip off, get in, no underwear or detention.

This is ten years ago.
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Pigeon
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PostPosted: 19:59 - 02 Mar 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nexus Icon wrote:
I wish they'd had that rule when I was at school. I used to hate playing rugby with a passion. I was really good at football but apparently we were a rugby school so we never played football in PE.

I swear I sometimes used to go a whole game without touching the rugby ball. Never call for a pass, never run towards a loose ball. There were some massive lads in my year whose sole aim, I swear, was to hospitalise as many people as possible on the rugby field.

Stupid game.



I never went out of my way to hospitalise someone and certainly never just picked the smallest kids to batter because they were easy prey.

However, quite often it was the smallest kids with the biggest gob, mouthing off left right and centre when a teacher was only 30 yards away. Often they preferred football, possibly because it was simple enough for them to comprehend.

Luckily we played a bit of Rugby at school and it was a great environment to legitimately smash a bit of sense back into them. Wink


As a nation we continue to appeal to the lowest common denominator in a race to the bottom. Life. It's hazardous to your health.

Playing sport at school is not the be all, it's not for everyone, but it teaches a lot of positive things, provides an outlet and can, lead on to a career. Not just in that particular field, but all the support staff that go with it.

In reality the chances of serious injury are very small. But learning technique early teaches good practice and skills before things get more serious later down the line.
I would guess the number of concussions at college / uni would be significantly higher if people chose to try the sport later on in years without some understanding of technique.
However in reality, if they don't play it at school, they probably won't later in life.

We can consign the game to pages of history and give up on the European and World stage. We can yet again, remove all risk from childrens lives and farm out yet more thoughtless drones who further lack common sense, or selflessness, confidence, fitness, self-reliance, fair play and team work.

Let's spend more time teaching children that things which may be risky are certainly not worth doing, if you have to put effort into something it's not worth trying. As soon as things get tough. Quit.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 21:42 - 02 Mar 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I was at Grammar school the sports were Rugby or Hockey. Us boys played Rugby because the Girls hockey teams were lethal. They were taught how to do damage with a stick!
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grr666
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PostPosted: 21:47 - 02 Mar 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pigeon wrote:

We can consign the game to pages of history and give up on the European and World stage. We can yet again, remove all risk from childrens lives and farm out yet more thoughtless drones who further lack common sense, or selflessness, confidence, fitness, self-reliance, fair play and team work.

Let's spend more time teaching children that things which may be risky are certainly not worth doing, if you have to put effort into something it's not worth trying. As soon as things get tough. Quit.

Nail on head.
Actually, if it weren't FOR rugby, My wifes youngest brother would be an utter bastard. The ONLY discipline in his
life, where he has to follow rules, respect others, part of a team etc etc comes from his Rugby. He'd be a juvenile
delinquent if it wasn't the 'school of hard knocks' that it is.

Edited to add,

The club he plays at (not at school although he also plays there but at a much lower level) take great care to
make the kids wear gumshields and head gear and there's always first aiders present while he plays. He
is pretty good at it, he's 14 now and started at 6, youth teams, played for the county etc. He's being scouted
quite often, he lives in Bath so a big rugby town so it was a bit of a given he'd be into that rather than football.
Sure he's been in A&E a couple of times for x-rays and a broken toe, his next older brother up (he has two other
brothers that play) got a broken collarbone some years ago when he was about 10, and the eldest is like a house
on legs, not fast but strong like bull, and a bit of a lump for most to bring down anyway. He's remained uninjured
and is 19 now and works for the MOD, playing less often now but he's got a nice bit of clunge keeping him busy these days.
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Last edited by grr666 on 09:20 - 03 Mar 2016; edited 1 time in total
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 22:36 - 02 Mar 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Although the risks of longer term brain injuries are very real.

I think schoolboy rugby should be full contact BUT there should be much better training on how to go into a tackle properly and how to land properly before they actually play.

There should also be a requirement to use a qualified referee during competative matches with a real emphasis on good tacking technique. So both arms, below the waist. None of this smother or bodyblock tackling the pros use. A good referee will stop all this, will penalise players who are deliberately setting out to cause injury and will take players off who are either far above or far below the ability of their opponants.

My Mrs played in a freshers team at an inter college ladies rugby match. An annual "friendly " with both teams green as grass and very amateurish (think schoolboy under 13s). The other team were losing so they put on two ringers at half time, both playing at international level. My Mrs was a quick runner up on the wing and had been making ground all the match. She got tackled from both sides at once breaking her femur in two places. That's a potentially fatal injury.

They started using proper referees after that year. A proper ref would have kept them under control, he may even have stopped them coming on in the first place.

In schools, much MUCH more emphasis needs to be put on the severity of head-knocks in all aspects of PE. Head knock and you stop and sit the session out. End of.

I remember one PE class cocking up a neck-vault and headbutting the box off a springboard. Sore neck, seeing stars, the full works. Chipped a tooth too. Next news I had the PE teacher bawling at me to get back up and try again. I told him no, I've banged my head and I'm not doing it a second time. Cue more bawling and me telling him to fuck off (literally) because I'm not doing it. I landed up in the rectors office and on detention. Looking back. I was both concussed and suffering from whiplash, he should have been sending me to the doctors to get checked out, not bawling himself hoarse at me to repeat the exercise.

The problem is a lot of PE teachers are retired athletes with a teaching diploma and a chip on their shoulder. Or educationally sub-normal, borderline sex cases with anger management issues. Rather than experts in teaching physical disciplines.
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Joncrete Cungle
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PostPosted: 23:16 - 02 Mar 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rugby at school was brilliant, a legitimate way to hammer the cocky gobshites who came to training to try and show how big and tough they are. Laughing
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recman
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PostPosted: 23:20 - 02 Mar 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:
Jesus wept, no rugby tackling, no heading a football.

Better not kiss a snatch behind the bike sheds in case you get a slap. Rolling Eyes


FTFY. Wink
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Pigeon
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PostPosted: 00:28 - 03 Mar 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

stinkwheel wrote:
Although the risks of longer term brain injuries are very real.

I think schoolboy rugby should be full contact BUT there should be much better training on how to go into a tackle properly and how to land properly before they actually play.

There should also be a requirement to use a qualified referee during competative matches with a real emphasis on good tacking technique.

Head knock and you stop and sit the session out. End of.


For what it's worth, I completely agree. Wearing head gear limits cuts and abrasions, but does little to avoid concussions. At school, it should be any head knocks and you're out.

Body and head position in a tackle are key and best learnt early doors.
We were fortunate to have a qualified ref teach as well as a gentleman who had played local club level for a number of years. I'm sure their instruction and monitoring were the main reasons we never had any serious injuries beyond the usual stud marks.

By contrast, the girls school up the road was a different kettle of fish.
We used to make unauthorised visits up the road to offer our "support". Their matches were brutal. They showed the same level of commitment, if not more than the guys did. The big difference was the technique. This was 20 years ago, so the womans game wasn't as established and consequently, at an all girls school, the teachers were much more inexperienced because they were at school in the 50's / 60's and certainly didn't play much then.

So the girls were going in hard and with far less training. Ambulances were so often required, they were called in advance and sat just off the field waiting for the inevitable. On a couple of occasions, they ran out of Ambulances and the Air Ambulance were the only option. There was no questioning their commitment, but it was brutal.

If ever there was a good example of what StinkWheel was explaining, those committed ladies stick in my mind.......and not just because of the post game ice baths Very Happy
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andyscooter
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PostPosted: 08:44 - 03 Mar 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had to play rugby for the school team as I got kicked off the football team


manned me up as the other lads all seemed to also play for the local town rugby club as well Laughing

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Lord Percy
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PostPosted: 11:14 - 03 Mar 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Heh, The Daily Mash - Rugby 'can turn you into a bellend'.
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Kidjal
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PostPosted: 12:37 - 03 Mar 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd love to see what these people thought of our kickboxing club entering 5-10 year olds in continuous kickboxing fights.

"Faint possibility of harm - eliminate entire activity" Stupid approach to take
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lihp
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PostPosted: 16:55 - 03 Mar 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kidjal wrote:
I'd love to see what these people thought of our kickboxing club entering 5-10 year olds in continuous kickboxing fights.

"Faint possibility of harm - eliminate entire activity" Stupid approach to take


What about if children were forced to compete in kickboxing?
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 17:07 - 03 Mar 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

We used to finish our PE with a session British Bulldog. Other then you wouldn't be allowed to play it now because BRITISH Rolling Eyes it was an evil game. Mumsnet would be hysterical at what was happening to their little chaps. Laughing
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grr666
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PostPosted: 18:03 - 03 Mar 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

We used to play Bulldog in the Army cadets. That shit could get brutal.
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Kidjal
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PostPosted: 18:24 - 03 Mar 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

lihp wrote:
Kidjal wrote:
I'd love to see what these people thought of our kickboxing club entering 5-10 year olds in continuous kickboxing fights.

"Faint possibility of harm - eliminate entire activity" Stupid approach to take


What about if children were forced to compete in kickboxing?



I was forced to play football, where most of my injuries came from, but I don't see the "national game" under attack
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