954 Blade Cornering / Acceleration Questions...

[Az]

I'm unsure if these are just the characteristics of the bike or if I have an issue....

1- The bike feels heavy to turn into corners. Compared to my 600 K3 which feels very flickable, the 954 feels more reluctant to tip into a corner, requires a bit of man handling. Considering it's not silly heavy (190kg-ish wet), I thought it'd be a bit more agile than it is.

2- Even with an Ohlins steering damper fitted, the front end still shakes a fair bit. Under hard acceleration the handle bars will shake. Not enough to make you back off the throttle, but enough that you can noticeably feel the bars wiggling in your palms. The damper was originally on 5/15 clicks, it's now on 10/15 clicks with no difference in the shakes.

Am I right in thinking a suspension setup would benefit me and having the damper refurbished too? I'm only 65kg, so maybe that could explain the light front end?
Tyre PSI is at 36 front and back on BT023's and standard tyre size (190/50 & 120/70). Maybe worth trying a 190/55 next time for quicker turning?

Or is it just a matter of MTFU and welcome to the thou' world?

[MarJay]

Did your GSXR have a steering damper? Do you think the steering damper is there to make the bike smooth and never even shake it's head?
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British beauty: Triumph Street Triple R; Loony stroker: KR1S; Track fun: GSXR750 L1; Commuter Missile: GSX-S1000F; Cheap project: CBR900RR FireBlade
Remember kids, bikes aren't like lego. You can't easily take a part from one bike and then fit it to another.

[Az]

[Minty]

Headstock bearings? Squared off front tyre?

I have a 918 and have no issues with handling and that has no damper. However, I weigh it down more than you would.
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[Vincent 2]

Hi , a mate of mine had this problem on his blackbird , we tried spacers at the shock , more oil in the forks , alot of different things , then we took out the spacer ,and set up the bike`s sag and rebound made the world of difference , along with a profiled front tyre

[supZ]

When was the last time the suspension was refreshed? Setup?

The 954s are badly setup from new, and are actually err over damped (i think, can't remember which way round). Basically, to get round it they put in a very soft spring (about 0.6) which masks the problem but doesn't resolve it.

Getting your damper refurbed and forks re-done with new values and springs (around 9-9.5) your bike will be transformed.

Beyond that you should check the usual.. head bearings, tyre issues, etc..

It's a powerful and light bike so under hard acceleration you should expect some headshake. Lighten your grip on the handlebars, let the suspension do its thing and you should find the effect reduces. Don't fight the bike.

Mine was predictable, flickable and perfect for years but last year I started having load of headshake problems and lost a lot of confidence on it. Put a steering damper on for piece of mind (hadn't needed one for the last 6years but there we go) and got my suspension all re-done and now she's great again. I'll point out that I personally had a problem with it as I was soooo used to how soft it was before, but I dropped my spring rate a bit and I'm now much more used to it and I'm happy again

Talk to MCT or PDQ. Both are very good guys and happy to discuss any problems you have and talk you through their recommendations. I had mine done by MCT as I've used them before for my track bike but I have had setup done at PDQ before as they're actually close to me whereas MCT aren't but both top guys

Suspension is probably the best bang for buck 'mod'/improvement you can do to your bike
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CBR954RR - Daily toy
CBR600RR - Trackbike

[Az]

[el_oso]

An old(ish) BT023 was the cause on my thundercat.

I messed about with the fork adjusters and the rear shock, headstock and wheel bearings. Changed the squared off front for new set of rubber and the problem magically went away.
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Duke 390
Previous: '05 XR125L | '96 XJ600S Diversion |'05 Suzuki GSXR1000 | '05 Honda CBR125-R | '97 YZF 600R Thundercat | '11 Honda CBR250
Car: Jeep Wrangler 4.0L

[MarJay]

I had one, it was twitchy as hell, but also hard. So it meant there was no 'feel' on the bike at all. I fitted a steering damper, but it made it sluggish. I set up the sag but it didn't help a great deal.

People rave about these bikes and how great they are, but I never gelled with mine. I suspect that if you're either 14 stone and heavier, it's a good road bike. If it's set up properly it's a good road bike, but out of the box it's... meh.
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British beauty: Triumph Street Triple R; Loony stroker: KR1S; Track fun: GSXR750 L1; Commuter Missile: GSX-S1000F; Cheap project: CBR900RR FireBlade
Remember kids, bikes aren't like lego. You can't easily take a part from one bike and then fit it to another.

[Az]

[Az]

[supZ]

[RhynoCZ]

[Minty]

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My fingers smell of your mum.

[Fizzer Thou]

When I first bought my '01 R1 the handling was a pile of doggy-do.The tyres were not the best as OEM (MEZ3s) but had a lot of tread depth left so chose not to replace them in the first instance.

But then I read the setup guide from a popular biking magazine and the handling was transformed Since that time I have improved it further with an Ohlins shock,fork springs and oil.

Here are the suggested settings from the guide for the 954

STANDARD SETTINGS

Rear preload: position 4 from minimum
Rear rebound: 2 turns out on punch dots (from full in)
Rear compression: 2 turns out on punch dots (from full in)

Front preload: 11 turns out from full in
Front rebound: 2 turns out on punch dots (from full in)
Front compression: 2 turns out on punch dots (from full in)

SUGGESTED TRACK SETTINGS

Rear preload: position 6 from minimum
Rear rebound: as standard
Rear compression: 1 turn out on punch dots

Front preload: 9 full turns out (from full in)
Front rebound: as standard
Front compression: 1 turn out on punch dots (from full in)

Track tyre pressures 32psi front and 36psi rear

SUGGESTED ROAD SETTINGS

Same as track settings except for

Front preload: as standard
Front rebound: as standard
Front compression: 3 turns out on punch dots (from full in)

Road tyre pressures 36psi front and 42psi rear

If you want a full printout of the setup guide PM me as the above is only the guide after they went through lots of permutations and assured themselves that the bike was in as new condition.Obviously,if the fork seals have been weeping for a while and there is some play in the rear shock bearings,it will never feel the same as new
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[Alex A]

Low tyre pressure can cause slow steering, with resistance to turn in. Even a few PSI can make a big difference. 36psi rear, 33psi front usually works for me on the road.

Otherwise, you shouldn't need a steering damper. Personally, I'd ditch it, put the suspension back to factory settings (as per the manual), get your pressures right. And then report back.

If it's still not right then the tyres and/or suspension might need a refresh, or you just need to adapt!

[stevo as b4]

As everyone had said you definitely need to make sure everything suspension wise in in good nick, and put some decent tyres on with the pressures set carefully.

Not related at all. But until I found performance bikes set up guide I found my J1 ninja 600 really hard work. I was always running wide struggling to turn in and hold a line, and would often come out of LHS bends on the wrong side of the road.

Lower than factory tyre pressures, and 8mm more rear ride height really helped me get it to work and keep up with mates on other less sporty bikes.

[talkToTheHat]

You should be setting tne preload for your weight, google keth code on adjsusting static sag. A skittery front could be too much preload, which could also explain your slow steering. Get the sag right first by adjusting preload.
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[Vincent]

Aye..definitely check static sag first, could be the rear end is too low for some reason.
You could try dropping the yokes 10mm, (if the bars allow), to see what difference it makes.
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[Robby]

There is a lot about suspension setup in this thread, but I would really check the chassis over before fiddling with the suspension. Worn head bearings, loose swingarm pivot bolts or worn bearings, or a suspension linkage that is seizing up will all give you awful handling. You also need to diagnose them properly. You can't feel it headstock bearings are clicking with a steering damper fitted - it needs to come off and the front end up in the air to feel if there is a problem. You need to disconnect the shock and remove the rear wheel to feel if swingarm bearings are loose.

If a bike is skittery in a straight line and needs to be hefted into corners, those are the classic signs of knackered headstock bearings. Your bike is now old enough for such things to be a problem, particularly if it sat unused for a year or two.

[Az]

Thank you all for the replies, appreciate it.

What i'll be doing in this order...

1- Have a play with tyre PSI (free) - Although I can't see this resolving my front end wobbles, it may help with the heavy turning or maybe not? No harm in having a fiddle with the tyre PSI either way.

2- Having the suspension adjusted by a suspension geek to suit me (free)

3- Check relevant bearings & replace where/if necessary

4- Change tyres for 190/55 + 120/70 M7RR's

5- Maybe having the suspension re-hauled and tweaked to suit me. I say maybe, as the bike's going up for sale next year. So unsure if it'd be worth pouring money into the suspension now I think about it properly. It is something I want to do to a bike, but maybe a bike i'm going to keep for a while.

Working on it cheapest to most expensive.

Worst case scenario I just live with it for the year.

[Matt B]

I would suggest that you check the bearings before getting the suspension set up, just to avoid any possible time wasting. Adjusting preload or compression/rebound is going to be pointless if the head bearings, shock linkage or swing arm bearings are shot.
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[Az]

[Az]

Looks like this is on hold while I sort out some running issues on this stupid bike... buy a reliable Honda they said

Clicky for thread with my new issue

[Az]

TL;DR :
-Discovered my right fork is leaking and is booked in for Friday and headstock bearings will be checked at the same time
-Fork and shock compression and rebound set up has cured handling woo's but bike still shakes it head under load.

Details :
Discovered the bike's right fork leg is weeping, so that's booked in for this Friday. Unsure how long it's been leaking for, but I only discovered them leaking on Friday. Unsure if this may be a reason for any of my issues. I'm also going to ask the mechanic to check over the headstock bearings while he's at it on Friday.

I've also applied some suspension adjustments (following Dave Mosses advise) and to be honest i'm shocked at the difference a few minutes and a flat head screw driver can make.
The bike turns in a lot easier/quicker than it did before and actually holds a line rather than run wide.
I still need to adjust the preload on shock and forks, which a mate will do for me when he's back from Uni and fine tune suspension setup for me.