Question about job finding rules...

[The Artist]

Lets say a person gets dismissed from their job for gross misconduct.

They are then looking for a new job, does the person need to disclose this? If no references are asked for in the process and they ask why said person is leaving, can they just say they want a change?

[Rogerborg]

Of course you can say it. Practically I'd expect to get away with it or not based on how big the industry is and how much contact there is between old and new employers and their respective staff.

These days you're more likely to get caught via Facebook gossip than a negative reference.
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[RPM]

Yes, as has been stated, they can say whatever they like regarding applying to work for a new company.... just not on Facebook, LinkedIn or other sites

I suspect there might be a problem if references are requested and the previous company provides references via their HR department.

Unfortunately HR depts usually state that they have to answer all questions and can provide other information which wasn't requested, provided they can prove that the information is true.
They claim that this stops their company being sued by any new employer, etc.

I don't know what field of work is involved or the nature of the grounds for dismissal......but I would think about the people they used to work with and see if there are any senior people, still working there, who could/would be willing to provide a reference

With a managerial head on, I'd say 'be cautious' if they do get found out, there's the potential for two gross misconduct dismissals and two companies that could provide negative info about this person.

atb

[monkeybiker]

I never told no one. If they ask for a reference be careful who you pick and if possible contact them first.

I see far more negatives and very few if any positives to being honest in this situation.

[Jewlio Rides Again LLB]

Skip the previous employer if possible. Feasible to expect that not every employee gets on with every single boss.
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[lihp]

I'd find it rare to get a negative reference.

We had to sack somebody a few years back for theft. We still gave them a good reference. After all, they had already lost their job. Why go out of our way to destroy their life and career prospects altogether?
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[Jewlio Rides Again LLB]

I hope they ask me for the reference of our noob.
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[The Artist]

[hellkat]

[Alan1986]

[finniee]

I think a few companies HR departments just acknowledge that you worked there from bla bla to bla and thats about it, I can't be sure.
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[Commuter_Tim]

[Rogerborg]

[The Artist]

[G]

Seen plenty of 'honest' references given over the years.

Such as "unfortunately was off ill for a variety of reasons for more time than was at work during probationary period, so I was not able to gain a good enough assessment of work".

"We successfully prosecuted them for theft and there's an ongoing separate police investigation."

Whether these people actually offered references or agencies called the last listed employer is another matter.

[Polarbear]

[angryjonny]

[DrSnoosnoo]

[RPM]

My original points are based on eighteen years working in management, governance and HR recruitment and dismissal procedures.
I have worked within one of the most heavily politicised fields, e g: NHS and private contract providers for government contracts.

I have been aware of far too many cases whereby individuals were treated unfairly, before, during and after the dismissal process.
I suspect that this is due to the individual's behaviour saying as much about the organisation as it does the individual.

As has been said 'not all HR depts are equal', but they often refer to employment law and the related guidance provided by CIPD.
As with any form of guidance, it can be subject to individual and departmental interpretation.

One issue I found with HR is that it usually served the commissioners rather than the actual organisation it was based within.
Like most soft product services, HR seems to protect it's credibility by using the available guidance to further it's own lifespan, often at the expense of something else, like integrity.

[Rogerborg]

[angryjonny]

[RPM]

Yes I fully agree with your point.

The private sector has definite advantages, in terms of business structure, and being able to get rid of problems.

Although my views of HR are largely informed by awareness that within my previous sector, HR were becoming some sort of autonomous being, answerable only to their god and the CIPD.

Most of the CEO'S I worked with, wouldn't challenge any HR decision...at all.

This is one of the reasons that I got the hell out of management within the NHS/ Commissioned provider sector.

[Alan1986]

I only ever use to speak to HR if I needed a pen,

They looked after the pen sector for all I care
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[lihp]

[Alan1986]