The University of Dumb

[Ribenapigeon]

I saw a news article recently bemoaning that half of young people don't go to University (what you young 'uns call "Uni"). WTF? that means fifty percent of our youth are smart enough to get onto a degree course. Surely some mistake? Why is it such a problem anyway, not going to University? What's wrong with just being dumb?

[Rogerborg]

The Sun Sez: actual UK "university" degree courses.

Equestrian psychology
Pop music performance
Cruise management
Hair dressing management
Contemporary circus and physical performance
Surf science and technology


Core skills for competing in the global economy.
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GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike

[scorps]

Im looking at the positive side, 50% of our kids arent going to be moaning about their safe place whilst learning to knit yoghurt.
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Do not presume that I am male.

[Poseidon]

That's a huge chunk of the 18-24 category that don't appear on the unemployment stats. Quite a neat way to show how well the UK economy is doing.

As for what's wrong with being dumb (unskilled is probably a better term to use). The system is fundamentally flawed. Go back a generation or two and you could go in at the ground level, work your way up the ranks building skills as you go and end up with a decent career. Now you need a degree to get onto the management training scheme for a biscuit factory. There seems to have been a major shift away from ground up work based training to a system where you walk in mid way up the ladder because you've learnt all you need to know from a lecturer who hasn't worked the front line positions for years (if indeed at all).
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1977 Honda CG125
2002 Ducati Monster S4 (currently restoring)

[Lord Percy]

Tony Blair wanted "education, education, education."

The university industry saw ", , s".

Hence the completely ridiculous degree courses available now.

I'm a student myself and I know for sure the whole system needs shaking up. I think one way to do this would be to do admissions based on how much a certain discipline is needed in the country. For example, they say nursing is in short supply so let a lot of students onto that course and give loans/grants etc as normal. But for mickey mouse subjects that are useless to the country, only let a handful of (the best) applicants onto the course with loans/grants as normal, then any others, who didn't make the grade but still want to join, can pay their own way onto it.

It might make others think twice about what they should really be learning, too.

[Rogerborg]

One way to sort it would be to stop allowing low earning graduates to dodge paying back their £27K+ student loans.

The de facto situation is that "loans" are essentially grants for thickies, wasters and education tourists, but a graduate tax on successful UK taxpayers.

And yet it's the lefties that are bawing about them.
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike

[Vracktal]

[-]

[Ste]

[syl]

[Ste]

Google tells me he went to Plymouth Polytechnic.

Such places are for thickies and wasters.

[Rogerborg]

[Fin]

[Vracktal]

[Ribenapigeon]

I'm sure there are plenty of brainiacs at University I just cant believe half of school leavers are smart enough. I know further education policy has been a fiddle since Majors government created all these new (25 years ago) universities. Its the scale of the fiddle that's shocking.

[Rogerborg]

[lihp]

[scorps]

I often wish Id gone to university to study marine biology or something similar, I have always been fascinated by the sea and even my scuba diving years didnt come close to what I would have liked to have seen and studied.

ho hum,
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Do not presume that I am male.

[angryjonny]

I'd gamble 50p that minimum wage is going up faster than the repayment threshold on a student loan. Reckon it won't be that many years before Nigel the shelf-stacker in Morrisons finds himself suddenly having to pay back the 50k he borrowed against his BA in golf-course-design 20 years hence.

[Ribenapigeon]

[B5234FT]

The issue is that the original message was:

"Everyone who makes the grade should be able to go to university"

I.e. universities should not be the preserve of the privileged.

Sadly that message during Blair's reign became:

"Everyone should go to university"

Which is obviously ridiculous.

The problem is that as a result it's become easier and easier and more and more mickey mouse courses have appeared but worse still, people are pushed away from work and towards university by schools from about the age of 14 into courses with no jobs at the end of them.

I see my student loan repayments going out every month, but ultimately I'm paying someone elses with my income tax as well

[Rogerborg]

[-]

[-]

[RhynoCZ]

Just to give you the Czech perspective. We are considered to be a very educated nation, the most of Czechs have at least completed the secondary education and 90% of secondary education graduates go to a University (not everyone will get past the first/second semester though, but a large quantity of people have at least a Bc. degree). I'm talking post 1989/1993 Czech republic. Before '89, not everyone was allowed to even do the secondary education, so people who grew up during that time period now ''force'' their children to study.

Results?: Crap loads of people with Bc. and Masters degrees, not enough craft and specialized workers. People with higher education do underpaid jobs. You'd be surprised how many economics faculty, linguistics faculty, and so on graduates are working at shopping centers as cashiers, handyman... Those realistic enough then go and invade other EU countries, where their education has a real meaning. I mean, they get paid less than the locals, but it's still a plenty.

On the other hand, education gives you (or at least should) a wider perspective of things. If you study 3; 5 years or longer, because you are a lazy feck, and then you know nothing about what you've just finished, then it was a waste of time.

The worst of them all: People who study stuff like literature, poems, history... I know we need those too, but do we need that many of them? When people in Czech rep. don't know what to do with their lives, they go and study business/economy.

The last thing, the education in Czech rep. is for free (taxpayers money). You can study what every you want, the only limitation is your age (26) and intellect. Which also helps to create a large numbers of graduates with out work.
As it stands today, if you go and do crafts instead of higher education, the odds are you're gonna earn upto 3 times of what the Bc./Masters degree graduates, mind you the system:
a) Elementary school: 9 Years (everyone does that)
b) Secondary school: 4 years; OR
c) Crafts: 3 years (+2 if you want to carry on in education at higher level or you just want a piece of paper, that says you did the same final exam as the secondary school kids)
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Then you can go to a university, if you did a) + b) OR a) + c) + 2 years.
a) Bc. degree = 3 years (some take 4.5 years),
b) Masters degree = 2 years (some take less or more),
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So you are 25, 26 years old, you have no job experience, you've got a university degree and you start at the lowest level of a company (if you find a job with the degree you've got). On the other hand your mates that did crafts (very high demand by employers at the monet) are 18 years old, already got their experience during the course, as it's part of their exam, and they've been working for all those years you were studying, so now (if they know what they are doing) are doing considerably better than you, with a less stress more pay job or even starting their own businesses.

+ In most of the EU countries: studying means student loans for the vast majority of the students. So when you force your children to study, please be kind and pick something that's actually useful.
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