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Bike thief ferals are now running totally wild in Edinburgh

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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 07:18 - 18 Apr 2016    Post subject: Bike thief ferals are now running totally wild in Edinburgh Reply with quote

(Biking News? Politics and Current Affairs?)

We've had some previous reports of Edinburgh police having a no-pursuit / no-recording of bike thieves. But this, urgh.

A mob of neds try nicking a chap's bike from his garden, threaten to slit his throat if he doesn't give them the keys, the cops turn up, and...

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/news/6219645/Sorry-pal-youre-on-your-own.html
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Nash GT
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PostPosted: 07:23 - 18 Apr 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Meanwhile, if the catch you sneaking a cheeky wheelie on a main road all he'll break loose... Far too many kittens at risk Rolling Eyes
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 07:26 - 18 Apr 2016    Post subject: Re: Bike thief Ferals are now running totally wild in Edinbu Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
(Biking News? Politics and Current Affairs?)

We've had some previous reports of Edinburgh police having a no-pursuit / no-recording of bike thieves. But this, urgh.

A mob of neds try nicking a chap's bike, threaten to slit his throat if he doesn't give them the keys, the cops turn up, and...

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/news/6219645/Sorry-pal-youre-on-your-own.html


Jesus wept. The police have lost it, bring on the vigilante. Thumbs Up

By the way, for people with no gun licence and not much money, one of these will put a nice hole in a scumbag from 20 meters.

https://www.knifewarehouse.co.uk/50lb+Gekko+Plastic+Pistol+Crossbow+PWdETjBBRE14b0RkalZIWnZKSGM
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Sload
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PostPosted: 07:26 - 18 Apr 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not unexpected, Two cops againsts s mob of ferals who are not afraid to use weapons will end badly for the old bill, I'm surprised they sent only two officers.
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P.
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PostPosted: 07:27 - 18 Apr 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Borg, can you vacate Scotland whilst we bomb it to the ground, you can return, King of the Scots. We'll hand build you a castle. Laughing
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G
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PostPosted: 07:47 - 18 Apr 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh but it's not the poor repressed dear's fault - what with all the bankerlitians ruining their lives; what other option do they have?

[/SNP]
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 08:28 - 18 Apr 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sload wrote:
Two cops againsts s mob of ferals who are not afraid to use weapons will end badly for the old bill

I'm not actually blaming the coppers on site, although they are continuing the behaviour that has resulted in the problem.

The issue is: why are the ferals not afraid of Dibble?

It's because they've been taught not to be by year after year of softly-softly "conflict resolution", 9-5 cover (much of that chasing paperwork) and "intelligence led policing" rather than going in mob handed at the time to stop crimes that are actually in progress.

The police should be the biggest gang in town. The response to stoning a cop car should be swift and unequivocal, not a polite knock on the door three weeks later to ask if Wee Jimmy fancies incriminating himself.

The neds know that there are zero or minimal consequences. These are the sort who openly Facebook pictures of themselves arranging to steal bikes, or posing on stolen bikes, under their own name and face. Nae fear. You can taste the contempt, and it's getting easier to see why.
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dydey90
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PostPosted: 09:21 - 18 Apr 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm sure most other police forces carry a sidearm, which normally commands a degree of respect.

However, I wouldn't trust most of the dibble I've met with a water pistol, let alone a real one.
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Dave70
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PostPosted: 10:11 - 18 Apr 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've seen similar low life in Liverpool ride past police cars on scramblers more than once, no plates, no lid, just a balaclava or other garment covering their faces.
Police don't even bat an eyelid.

Yet every couple of months or so, the local press run an article about how po po are cracking down on this nuisance that plagues certain areas. Rolling Eyes
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BTTD
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PostPosted: 12:38 - 18 Apr 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't they have CS spray and taser guns?
If the mob had started attacking the guy, what would they have done? Made some notes for later prosecution? FFS.
I'm not saying they should pile in batons flying (or mow them down in the panda), but at least attempt to exert some influence and disperse the mob?
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J.M.
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PostPosted: 12:39 - 18 Apr 2016    Post subject: Re: Bike thief Ferals are now running totally wild in Edinbu Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:
By the way, for people with no gun licence and not much money, one of these will put a nice hole in a scumbag from 20 meters.

https://www.knifewarehouse.co.uk/50lb+Gekko+Plastic+Pistol+Crossbow+PWdETjBBRE14b0RkalZIWnZKSGM


We have this one;

https://www.knifewarehouse.co.uk/80lb+Self+Cocking+Aluminium+Crossbow+PUlUTjBBRE14b0RkalZIWnZKSGM

It certainly would do some damage;

https://i.imgur.com/VLpxS2wm.jpg
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Ste
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PostPosted: 12:39 - 18 Apr 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

jnw010 wrote:
I'm not saying they should pile in batons flying (or mow them down in the panda)

Sad

Why not?
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 14:06 - 18 Apr 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ste wrote:
jnw010 wrote:
I'm not saying they should pile in batons flying (or mow them down in the panda)

Sad Why not?

Dat paperwork tho.
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Commuter_Tim
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PostPosted: 15:09 - 18 Apr 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know can of worms and everything, but I still argue we would be better off with American gun Laws.
If we have to take our chances with scum anyway (some of whom already have guns) I personally would feel safer if a few more sane people were carrying too.
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BTTD
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PostPosted: 15:40 - 18 Apr 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ste wrote:
jnw010 wrote:
I'm not saying they should pile in batons flying (or mow them down in the panda)

Sad

Why not?


Well, I'm not saying they shouldn't either. I'm rather ambivalent regarding the use of excessive violence against blatant scum. On the one hand it seems rather uncivilised, while on the other hand they really really really deserve it. Then again, can plod be trusted with that kind of authority?
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pepperami
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PostPosted: 15:49 - 18 Apr 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do Scottish police not carry batons, tasers, or pepper spray?.

Seems to me that this was not an easy nick so plod left it alone, a bit like the coppers anywhere else in Great Britain .
It just goes to show that the plod weren`t so brave and ready to puff up their chests when the odds were not so favourable.
The word Coward springs to mind.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 16:38 - 18 Apr 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, that's what "risk assessment" means. Wink

No real blame on them, since the doubtless pissed up ferals would have been as likely to turn on them as to run, and I don't fancy those odds, batons and spray notwithstanding. Also, we're long past the time of recruiting big handy lads in the police - it seems to be mostly beanpoles, midgets and nippy sweeties now.


jnw010 wrote:
Then again, can plod be trusted with that kind of authority [to use force]?

There isn't any special law for the police regarding use of force (although there is for carrying around the means to apply it).

It's always down to the reasonableness of it, up to and including slotting Brazilian electricians. Under any circumstances where it's OK for a copper to use a given amount of force, it would in principle be just as fine for you or I to do it. Or viewed another way, if it wouldn't be reasonable for you or I to run down those ferals, then it's not reasonable for a copper to do it.

I stress "in principle", since the practice seems to have diverged somewhat.
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Irezumi aka Reuben
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PostPosted: 17:37 - 18 Apr 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raises an interesting question of what was to happen if the guy was to defend himself/his property and seriously injure a few of the teenagers with a bat for example.

In this instance it would suggest that the police arent sufficiently doing their job and therefore it is potentially a valid move to take vigilante action.
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i1301243
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PostPosted: 18:23 - 18 Apr 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
Also, we're long past the time of recruiting big handy lads in the police - it seems to be mostly beanpoles, midgets and nippy sweeties now.


For as long as I can remember it was only those who were bullied in school that joined the police. Hence the chip on their shoulder.
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pepperami
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PostPosted: 18:23 - 18 Apr 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Irezumi aka Reuben wrote:
if the guy was to defend himself/his property and seriously injure a few of the teenagers with a bat to take vigilante action.



I`ll bet your bottom dollar that no matter how much danger the guy was in, the police would be falling over themselves to nick him.
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dydey90
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PostPosted: 18:54 - 18 Apr 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Commuter_Tim wrote:
I know can of worms and everything, but I still argue we would be better off with American gun Laws.
If we have to take our chances with scum anyway (some of whom already have guns) I personally would feel safer if a few more sane people were carrying too.


The number of scum vs upstanding citizens who were then walking around with the ability to swiftly deliver ten rounds of justice would not be skewed in our favour.

Scenario:
You're sat at the lights, aforementioned scum politely request that you dismount and let them have a go on your bike. You know you can ride off and the chances are they won't be able to stop you.
Now imagine they have a gun to your helmet. How much stopping power does half an inch of plastic have?
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Sload
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PostPosted: 19:01 - 18 Apr 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

pepperami wrote:
Do Scottish police not carry batons, tasers, or pepper spray?.


With those I still wouldn't fancy chances realistically. Odds on one victim becomes three, they needed to wait for backup, they should have sent more then one car to be honest but its probable they didn't take the call that seriously assuming appropriate information was given.
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Pigeon
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PostPosted: 19:44 - 18 Apr 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Commuter_Tim wrote:
I know can of worms and everything, but I still argue we would be better off with American gun Laws.
If we have to take our chances with scum anyway (some of whom already have guns) I personally would feel safer if a few more sane people were carrying too.



In 1996 (before the gun ban in the UK) our population was 58.2 million and we had 13,876 offences involving guns, including:
49 Homicides
4300 Robberies + Burglaries


in 2010 our population was 62.4 million and we had 11,200 offences involving guns, including:
60 Homicides
3100 Robberies + Burglaries


Americas population in 2010 was 309 million and they had 30,000 gun related deaths.

If we were the same size as America, our equivalent would be 297 homicides in the UK in 2010 compared to 30,000 in America.


What does this tell you. That we are not America (as much as we try) and since 1996 and the ban on guns, it's not made a huge difference in number terms.

Our population has grown 7%. Homicides are up 22%. Robberies and burglaries are down 20%

Perhaps the average man in the street is slightly safer from being robbed at gunpoint, but if you're a banger yo, then life is probably shorter than it was in 1996.

I admire American values, possibly because I don't live there and have not experienced my son/daughter being cut to ribbons by an Assault rifle by some prick who was laughed at by the cool kids.

30,000 deaths a year and all in the name of freedom and the right to bear arms. I admire that level of stubbornness.

That said, how many powerful lobbyists are involved in keeping the idea that it was ok to amend the constitution then, but not now.


It's harder to get guns in the UK. Not hard, just harder. We didn't used to shoot each much when we had them. If ISIS are going to be shooting the place up, it would be nice to return fire quickly and cut out the middle man of the court system.

Would I feel safer having a gun, knowing that my drunk neighbour and his drunk neighbour who've both been on Jeremy Kyle, also have guns. Would that be a good thing.

Freedom and liberty have a cost, is it worth paying? I don't know.
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Commuter_Tim
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PostPosted: 20:22 - 18 Apr 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pigeon wrote:
What does this tell you. That we are not America (as much as we try)...
Freedom and liberty have a cost, is it worth paying? I don't know.

I did take in your entire post, just didn't want to quote such a large one. (ooer missus)
I typically have disdain for our attempts to be Americanised, and agree we are not the same as 'Murica, but on the topic of guns...
I say we won't know until we try. Smile

dydey90 wrote:
Scenario:
You're sat at the lights, aforementioned scum politely request that you dismount and let them have a go on your bike. You know you can ride off and the chances are they won't be able to stop you.
Now imagine they have a gun to your helmet. How much stopping power does half an inch of plastic have?

Agreed, in your scenario most would not fair well.
However my intended point was that overall, Scum vs Humans we just might fair better than the current scenario.
It's the same arguements they have in 'Murica that because under extremely rare scenarios innocents die, all guns should be banned.

Imagine your scenario, but only now a well trained composed civilian spots the bike thief with a gun to my head, and whilst im shitting myself, the Civilian draws?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=zCcIdvYSsHU#t=35 - granted hes PoPo, but that changes nothing in the proposed scenario
Suddenly my odds go up.
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dydey90
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PostPosted: 20:42 - 18 Apr 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe they should introduce a rigorous test before allowing gun ownership. This should include a basic training module and a theory test, including a hazard perception test which both expire after two years. We could then follow this up with a module on handling the gun, assembly, disassembly and loading. Finally, a walk-through road test where you have to assess situations and only shoot the correct target.

Flintlock only up to the age of 19.
Bolt action 19-24 or licence held for two years. Semi automatic weapons allowed with muzzle velocity restricted.
24+ unrestricted access.

Add test fees of hundred of ponds and nobody would be stupid enough to go through all that.
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