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Coils or carbs?

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c_dug
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PostPosted: 08:31 - 28 Apr 2016    Post subject: Coils or carbs? Reply with quote

Hi all,

I picked up a really tidy low mileage Fazer 600 from a fellow BCFer on Monday for a good price. It was bought in the knowledge that it was running on three cylinders for a while when first started, something I witnessed on the test ride. This is a recent development, it has been kept unused for around a month or so prior to me buying the bike, but when it was last used regularly it was fine.

My assumption at the time was that some of the jets were a bit clogged up, and that a good ride would sort it out. However having now done something in the region of 200 mile or so on it, I'm beginning to suspect it might be the coils or HT leads, the symptoms have me a bit stumped though.

It occasionally seems to bog down at around 3-6krmp, but ticks over dead smoothly and runs perfectly at anything above 7krpm. If you thrash it for a few minutes then it runs nicely for the next 5-10 minutes, but then begins to bog down again at the same sort of revs.

If you ignore the bogging down (for instance last night it was chucking it down so I didn't want to thrash a new bike in the wet) it gets worse and worse until it's on the verge of unridable, but again if you force it through the bogged down spot and thrash it (when I made it to the dual carriageway) it soon clears up. The rain could potentially be a factor in this, but I've only ridden it in the rain once.

It seems to be dropping one cylinder, and then two, which is what has made me suspect it's the coils. But to my knowledge coils would get worse at high revs instead of better - or am I mistaken?

I figured that if it was the carbs at play, it wouldn't keep getting better and then worse again?

So, what do you think?
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MarJay
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PostPosted: 09:02 - 28 Apr 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have you checked the spark plugs...?
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temeluchus
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PostPosted: 09:13 - 28 Apr 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Drain the float bowl on the offending cylinder.
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jaffa90
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PostPosted: 10:26 - 28 Apr 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

As suggested by temeluchus,
Pilot jets work mostly up to 2/3,000 rpm then the main jets take over providing you have a vacuum and carb slide diaphragms in good order.
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Hahadumball
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PostPosted: 11:00 - 28 Apr 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

does sound like the carbs.

pre-warning the carb and airbox are an utter pig to get back in.
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MarJay
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PostPosted: 11:33 - 28 Apr 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

You have read the bodyguard Fazer thread right?
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 11:33 - 28 Apr 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

9 out of 10 fuelling problems are electrical. But it's easier to strip carbs so that's what everyone does.

Find which pot or pots it's dropping out then start swapping ignition componants over and see if the problem moves.
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Hahadumball
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PostPosted: 12:40 - 28 Apr 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

stinkwheel wrote:
9 out of 10 fuelling problems are electrical. But it's easier to strip carbs so that's what everyone does.

Find which pot or pots it's dropping out then start swapping ignition componants over and see if the problem moves.


source?
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sickpup
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PostPosted: 12:52 - 28 Apr 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paul Vtr wrote:
source?


May not be totally accurate but pretty obvious really when you have some experience.

Carbs jets don't just magically change size requiring rejetting. Carbs are pretty much big chunks of metal, although they wear out eventually they are under virtually no stress.

Electrics are under stress. People don't understand them so look at other things. Electrics do fail suddenly or slowly.

I can't remember the last time I had to strip a set of carbs and yet I regularly work on electrics.
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ADSrox0r
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PostPosted: 13:03 - 28 Apr 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

sickpup wrote:



Electrics do fail suddenly or slowly.


And/or erratically.
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c_dug
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PostPosted: 13:50 - 28 Apr 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

stinkwheel wrote:
9 out of 10 fuelling problems are electrical.


This was my thinking.


I've had issues with blocked jets before and while this felt similar to start with, I'm thinking it's less likely the more that I ride it, it seems far too sporadic in the way it comes and goes, blocked jets in my experience tend to unblock and then be good. Possibly a sticking float valve maybe? I'm still erring on electrical at the moment though, especially given the rain seemingly making it worse.

The problem only seems to happen when the bike is moving, so identifying which components are causing issues, or even which cylinders, might be troublesome.

I've tested coils and HT leads with my meter in the past, but I don't remember what values I'm looking for (presumably close to 0 resistance on the leads), can anybody suggest somewhere to start with that please?
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 13:50 - 28 Apr 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paul Vtr wrote:
stinkwheel wrote:
9 out of 10 fuelling problems are electrical. But it's easier to strip carbs so that's what everyone does.


source?


It's an old motorcycling proverb.
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c_dug
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PostPosted: 13:52 - 28 Apr 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also, relevant information for what difference it makes.

1999, 16000 miles, k&n air filter, sports "not for road use" exhaust, dyno-jet kit fitted around 2,000 miles back (and has run fine since then - until now).
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chris-red
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PostPosted: 13:55 - 28 Apr 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd change the plugs, it's a simple relatively cheap and probably worth doing anyway.
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c_dug
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PostPosted: 14:15 - 28 Apr 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

To my knowledge they were done quite recently, but I guess it wouldn't do any harm!
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Hong Kong Phooey
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PostPosted: 16:26 - 30 Apr 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

c_dug wrote:
To my knowledge they were done quite recently, but I guess it wouldn't do any harm!


Pull them, and while you're at it check the resistance of the coils. They should all be similar.
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temeluchus
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PostPosted: 17:44 - 30 Apr 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Usual suspects for a single uncooperative cylinder

Rotten ht lead, usually at the join between the cap and the lead but occasionally at the coil

Duff plug cap

Float bowl full of water

Duff spark plug

Spark plug tunnel drain blocked and the tunnel has filled with water

Seeing as it idles ok i would suggest draining the float bowls- water effectively reduces the amount of fuel in the carb giving odd results. This can be done without removing anything.

Then inspect the ht leads and caps for rot

Then look at the coils themselves and the plugs.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 17:59 - 30 Apr 2016    Post subject: Re: Coils or carbs? Reply with quote

c_dug wrote:

So, what do you think?

I think buying a Fazer off this forum's a bad idea Smile
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haroman666
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PostPosted: 18:03 - 30 Apr 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just to throw another option out there.

I had a similar problem on the CBR where it bogged between 7K and 10K rpm but only when the throttle was wide open.

I chased it for fucking ages carbs, coils etc etc. I check everything to do with fuel and electricity.

And then one day, when I was changing the cam-cover gasket, I thought I'd check the timing so I knew how to do it when the time may come.

Well blow me... Timing was out. Inlet was retarded one tooth and the exhaust advance one tooth.

I rectified it and it transformed the bike. Blew me away it did.

So... Whilst I doubt you have a timing problem, it's just an option to look at with a badly running new bike.
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