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Oil pan replacement

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blindasabat
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PostPosted: 07:41 - 30 Apr 2016    Post subject: Oil pan replacement Reply with quote

I have a Kawasaki er6-f 2009 and was doing an oil change and when putting back the oil sump plug using the torque wrench I have made a jester off myself oops by over tightening the bolt and guffed the thread in the sump,it still tightens slightly but not enough to stop a leak, I have looked at awe thing from hell coil to over sized bolts I have spoken to a couple of garages and the said they could rebore it and it would be a couple hours work, £120 that would be plus parts, thinking I can get a new pan for less and was wondering how easy a job it is to replace I am a bit of a novice can do basic stuff, I tried looking online for vids or instructions on how to replace said sump but can't find much. How difficult is it, any help would be much appreciated on the best way to go here.
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Pete.
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PostPosted: 08:31 - 30 Apr 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

2 hours to fit a sump helicoil?

Anyway, they'll probably use a kit like this, take 10 minutes and charge you 2 hours. No reason why you couldn't do the same yourself.

https://r.ebay.com/PSi2EP
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doggone
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PostPosted: 09:17 - 30 Apr 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd be generous and suggest the time set aside from bike in to bike out could easily be more than an hour.
Changing the pan is a bigger job than trying the fix mentioned above - several bolts to undo which might prove stubborn - round off or even snap - then it will need a new gasket which could prove awful tricky to install perfectly.
Just being certain the replacement you get is exactly the same is a minefield.
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NJD
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PostPosted: 09:58 - 30 Apr 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

A torque wrench on a drain plug? To clarify drain plugs are finger tightened then a little bit more with your spanner / socket?
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Falco
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PostPosted: 20:57 - 30 Apr 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

NJD wrote:
A torque wrench on a drain plug? To clarify drain plugs are finger tightened then a little bit more with your spanner / socket?


I can see why you would use one if you were new to bike maintenance.

I use one because at less than ~17Nm I get a slow drip. That feels like a lot than I would put on by "intuition", but has come off every time without trouble. So I assume it's OK Confused
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NJD
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PostPosted: 21:36 - 30 Apr 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

FredTheHorse wrote:
I can see why you would use one if you were new to bike maintenance.

I use one because at less than ~17Nm I get a slow drip. That feels like a lot than I would put on by "intuition", but has come off every time without trouble. So I assume it's OK Confused


I only ask because I've got an oil change (alongside a service) coming up soon that I want to have a go at myself, and will be my first attempt at one. The mention of a torque wrench worries me somewhat because everywhere I've read or watched are keen to get the point out that you really don't need to go monkey power on it and instead there's a limit. Also my haynes manual (chinese branded bike) lists no torque settings for the most part, seems it's "yeah that's tight mate" is how people work on these bikes.

Also an the oil drain plug is counter clockwise to loosen, right?
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iooi
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PostPosted: 21:48 - 30 Apr 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

NJD wrote:

Also an the oil drain plug is counter clockwise to loosen, right?


They are exactly the same way as other bolts..... Just remember they are upside down.

A good trick if using a socket wrench to undo. Is to use it on another bolt 1st to be sure its going the right way.....

Righty tightey, lefty loosey
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Falco
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PostPosted: 21:58 - 30 Apr 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

NJD wrote:
FredTheHorse wrote:
I can see why you would use one if you were new to bike maintenance.

I use one because at less than ~17Nm I get a slow drip. That feels like a lot than I would put on by "intuition", but has come off every time without trouble. So I assume it's OK Confused


I only ask because I've got an oil change (alongside a service) coming up soon that I want to have a go at myself, and will be my first attempt at one. The mention of a torque wrench worries me somewhat because everywhere I've read or watched are keen to get the point out that you really don't need to go monkey power on it and instead there's a limit. Also my haynes manual (chinese branded bike) lists no torque settings for the most part, seems it's "yeah that's tight mate" is how people work on these bikes.


Also an the oil drain plug is counter clockwise to loosen, right?


They are quite right about not going mad on it. The first time I took it off I had to use a breaker bar (the previous owner has over tightened just about every fastener on the bike), which was not ideal.

I don't believe I have ever seen a torque setting for the oil drain plug either, the figure I quote is from my own experimentation, going up 1Nm at a time to see where the dripping stopped. I wouldn't imagine you need a torque wrench if you are careful, just nip it up, put another 1/4 turn on it and wait and see if it leaks. Repeat until it stops.

I am quite ham-fisted though, so the wrench reassures me. Having said that a torque wrench is a worthwhile thing to have if you plan to do much work on the bike, and they aren't very expensive. This is a cheap one though I prefer the clicky ratchet type ones, for ease of use in more awkward places (like on the rocker cover/arms).

The oil drain plug does indeed go anti-clockwise (on my CG125 at least). As maintenance goes, its fairly user-proof to perform an oil change, I have no doubts you'll do it without issue.
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NJD
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PostPosted: 22:13 - 30 Apr 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've got a 3/8 socket that fits the drain plug perfectly but was debating if a ring spanner would be the better bet when it came to tighten it up for feel and a lower risk of over doing it.

Red arrow = loosen, green = tighten. I've got it, I hope. It was just the whole upside down thing that was throwing me off.

https://s32.postimg.org/hofvxuoid/oil.png

I don't know if I'm going to bother with a torque wrench. There's really no specific torque setting for chinese bikes and even when it comes to things like the real wheel axle in the haynes it just says "tighten" no torque settings on chapter or in description. In fact, scanning through the haynes chapter by chapter, the only chapters with torque settings outside of the generic advice of anything up to a 12mm bolt is the engine chapters.
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Kickstart
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PostPosted: 22:23 - 30 Apr 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

If careful and you can accept the risk the you can hellicoil / fit an over size sump plug without disassembly.

But I would prefer to do it with the sump off.

If you remove the sump then be very careful with any seals between the sump and the engine internals. On some engines the oil is directed through passageways in the sump (GPZ500 for example), hence leaving out one of those seals (which can drop out easily when replacing the sump with the engine the normal way up) can result in stuff all oil pressure.

All the best

Katy
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Falco
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PostPosted: 22:28 - 30 Apr 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

NJD wrote:
I've got a 3/8 socket that fits the drain plug perfectly but was debating if a ring spanner would be the better bet when it came to tighten it up for feel and a lower risk of over doing it.

Red arrow = loosen, green = tighten. I've got it, I hope. It was just the whole upside down thing that was throwing me off.

https://s32.postimg.org/hofvxuoid/oil.png

I don't know if I'm going to bother with a torque wrench. There's really no specific torque setting for chinese bikes and even when it comes to things like the real wheel axle in the haynes it just says "tighten" no torque settings on chapter or in description. In fact, scanning through the haynes chapter by chapter, the only chapters with torque settings outside of the generic advice of anything up to a 12mm bolt is the engine chapters.


There would definitely be less risk of overdoing it with a spanner, you will be able to feel how tight it is much better than a socket.

That is interesting about the lack of torque values, for the CG they have them for loads of stuff: front axel, caliper mount bolts, pad pins, the brake arms, steering stem, yoke pinch bolts (upper and lower), handle bar clamps, swinging arm pivot bolt......the list goes on and on.

I suppose for the Chinese bikes they are trying to cover a whole class of bikes, rather than one make, so they can't give a specific setting since it varies by bike.
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monkeybiker
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PostPosted: 22:33 - 30 Apr 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unless it's a bolt that requires a lot of force like a clutch bolt or engine head bolts I wouldn't use a torque wrench and just go by feel.
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NJD
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PostPosted: 22:39 - 30 Apr 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

FredTheHorse wrote:
There would definitely be less risk of overdoing it with a spanner, you will be able to feel how tight it is much better than a socket.

That is interesting about the lack of torque values, for the CG they have them for loads of stuff: front axel, caliper mount bolts, pad pins, the brake arms, steering stem, yoke pinch bolts (upper and lower), handle bar clamps, swinging arm pivot bolt......the list goes on and on.

I suppose for the Chinese bikes they are trying to cover a whole class of bikes, rather than one make, so they can't give a specific setting since it varies by bike.


The downside of course is that a 12 sided ring spanner has more chance of damaging the head of a bolt than a Kamasa socket does (carboot bargain), I only mention the socket brand because attempting such a job with any old cheapo socket isn't something I like the idea of.. well, on important bolts anyway.

Ah, well done that man on mentioning the CG manual. I remembered that I downloaded the pdf for it from google and have that saved away. Probably should get to reading that through and see if it proves more use than the generic chinese manual. I made a topic before regarding tools and had someone post on on that thread advising "88nm - rear axle nut / swingarm pivot nut", "62nm - front axle", "74nm - Steering stem nut" based on CG values.

When the time arrives I'll see how I get on and judge how well I do without a torque wrench and go from there (that's in regards to the whole rather than on an oil drain plug).
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Falco
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PostPosted: 22:54 - 30 Apr 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

NJD wrote:
The downside of course is that a 12 sided ring spanner has more chance of damaging the head of a bolt than a Kamasa socket does (carboot bargain), I only mention the socket brand because attempting such a job with any old cheapo socket isn't something I like the idea of.. well, on important bolts anyway.


While true, I wouldn't worry about that while working at these low levels of torque. As soon as you need to use your shoulder rather than your wrist/forearm then its time to switch to a 6-point, but as you say, it shouldn't be needed for this.

NJD wrote:
Ah, well done that man on mentioning the CG manual. I remembered that I downloaded the pdf for it from google and have that saved away. Probably should get to reading that through and see if it proves more use than the generic chinese manual. I made a topic before regarding tools and had someone post on on that thread advising "88nm - rear axle nut / swingarm pivot nut", "62nm - front axle", "74nm - Steering stem nut" based on CG values.

When the time arrives I'll see how I get on and judge how well I do without a torque wrench and go from there (that's in regards to the whole rather than on an oil drain plug).


Thumbs Up Good thought! If nothing else, it will give you a ballpark figure. For some reason the Haynes only gives the figures in lbf-ft and kgf-m, rather than Nm, so you will have to convert it yourself (there are a million sites online that will do it).
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Ed Case
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PostPosted: 22:58 - 30 Apr 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

£45 on fleabay, be tempted to do it myself, might need a gasket of course.
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