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Aerofoils on axle ends, effectively reduce unsprung weight?

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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 17:38 - 30 May 2016    Post subject: Aerofoils on axle ends, effectively reduce unsprung weight? Reply with quote

Would aero parts on the axle ends or swing arm or front fork lowers that created lift have a lightening effect on the unsprung mass?
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MarJay
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PostPosted: 17:42 - 30 May 2016    Post subject: Re: Aerofoils on axle ends, effectively reduce unsprung weig Reply with quote

Ribenapigeon wrote:
Would aero parts on the axle ends or swing arm or front fork lowers that created lift have a lightening effect on the unsprung mass?


You're a moron.
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temeluchus
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PostPosted: 17:44 - 30 May 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can't tell if troll or imbecile.
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CaNsA
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PostPosted: 17:44 - 30 May 2016    Post subject: Re: Aerofoils on axle ends, effectively reduce unsprung weig Reply with quote

MarJay wrote:
You're a bellend.

EFA
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 17:50 - 30 May 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, in a similar way to how applying oil to both tyres will reduce friction between you and the road.
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wristjob
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PostPosted: 18:03 - 30 May 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

road vehicle with lift is usually a bad thing.
https://youtu.be/SFN_Gp1eHN0
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Howling TerrorOutOfOffice
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PostPosted: 18:30 - 30 May 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

^^^I had a car that used to do that.
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Islander
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PostPosted: 18:44 - 30 May 2016    Post subject: Re: Aerofoils on axle ends, effectively reduce unsprung weig Reply with quote

Ribenapigeon wrote:
Would aero parts on the axle ends or swing arm or front fork lowers that created lift have a lightening effect on the unsprung mass?


Do it. Use large wings and ride fast.
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BTTD
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PostPosted: 19:42 - 30 May 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fill tyres with helium for even greater effect.
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 19:42 - 30 May 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aero parts for downforce create effectively a weight effect so why not use for lightening?

Before you laugh a couple years back I started a thread asking about aerofoils on bikes and got a similar reaction but they're being used this year on Moto GP bikes.
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Ste
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PostPosted: 19:48 - 30 May 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://i.imgur.com/SDRwmD7.png

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BTTD
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PostPosted: 19:49 - 30 May 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Light wheels = lower inertia = moves up and down quicker = more contact with the road.
Aero foils = wheels lifting off the road.
See how that works out. Rolling Eyes
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Kickstart
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PostPosted: 19:51 - 30 May 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ribenapigeon wrote:
Aero parts for downforce create effectively a weight effect so why not use for lightening?


For unsprung weight, it isn't the weight that is the important rather its momentum, and hence how quickly the unsprung bits can react to the road surface; moving both upwards and downwards.

All the best

Katy
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 20:06 - 30 May 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kickstart wrote:
Ribenapigeon wrote:
Aero parts for downforce create effectively a weight effect so why not use for lightening?


For unsprung weight, it isn't the weight that is the important rather its momentum, and hence how quickly the unsprung bits can react to the road surface; moving both upwards and downwards.

All the best

Katy


So what if aero at the wheel end of suspension giving downforce to the wheel independently of force from the weight of the machine?
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BTTD
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PostPosted: 20:14 - 30 May 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ribenapigeon wrote:
Before you laugh a couple years back I started a thread asking about aerofoils on bikes and got a similar reaction but they're being used this year on Moto GP bikes.


BMW got there a little bit before you with the fairing design on the R100RS. That was (I think I read somewhere) to add high speed stability.
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Kickstart
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PostPosted: 20:26 - 30 May 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ribenapigeon wrote:

So what if aero at the wheel end of suspension giving downforce to the wheel independently of force from the weight of the machine?


So you have made it react more quickly to a dip in the road and more slowly to a bump in the road.

All the best

Katy
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MCN
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PostPosted: 06:23 - 31 May 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ribenapigeon wrote:
Aero parts for downforce create effectively a weight effect so why not use for lightening?

Before you laugh a couple years back I started a thread asking about aerofoils on bikes and got a similar reaction but they're being used this year on Moto GP bikes.


Dude, FFS step away from the drawing board. Shocked

Think about what you are trying to re-invent.

If the 'device' is fitted to the axle what part of 'unsprung' are you trying to support? Rolling Eyes

In answer to the question, Duuuuh......

AnD FYI the foils fitted to 'some' Moto-GP bikes (Controversially) is to increase weight as has been discussed ^^^
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grr666
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PostPosted: 06:49 - 31 May 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did OP ever get that fence post out?
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MarJay
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PostPosted: 07:32 - 31 May 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

I could type out a long detailed reply to this, but I think I can distill it down to a short sentence:

... Fundamental misunderstanding about how motorcycle suspension works...
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weasley
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PostPosted: 09:13 - 31 May 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perhaps the misnomer "unsprung weight" doesn't help. In reality it is unsprung mass that is important, because it affects the inertia/momentum of the moving parts. Adding any aero device will add mass to the system (and there is no aero effect in the world that can reduce mass, save for aerodynamic destruction).

As Katy points out, if you are pushing the unsprung portion of the vehicle into the road (with increased apparent 'weight') then it will be slower to react to bumps (although may have a tendency to stay grounded, which could aid traction).
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Ste
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PostPosted: 09:31 - 31 May 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

MarJay wrote:
Fundamental misunderstanding about how motorcycle suspension physics works...

Wink
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Ariel Badger
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PostPosted: 09:51 - 31 May 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some top-fuel bikes do employ a canard wing forward of the engine. Unless your 0-250mph is in the 5 second range I doubt you need one though.
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MarJay
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PostPosted: 10:52 - 31 May 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

The force of the weight holding the bike to the floor is not what makes the bike slower...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inertia

Similarly, the force of the wheels touching the floor is not what makes unsprung weight bad.
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 11:21 - 31 May 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok I'll give up on this idea and move on to solidifying helium to make wheels and lower suspension parts Laughing
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MarJay
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PostPosted: 11:29 - 31 May 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ribenapigeon wrote:
Ok I'll give up on this idea and move on to solidifying helium to make wheels and lower suspension parts Laughing


Perhaps give up on all ideas and allow the world to be run by those who have an understanding of physics, engineering etc?
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