Getting what we deserve...

[byke95]

Just wondering if anyone out there is on the same page as me...

There's a lot of bad press out there about bikes and bikers. Myself, my biking mates (and here on BCF) we almost always play the victim.

Without ranting on and on about this too much, my reason for starting this threat is a red VFR that tried to kill himself today along the A36 diversion from Southampton to Salisbury (I'm in a car by the way): Tractor in front, three cars behind him waiting to overtake, on the straight tractor moves to the side of the lane so we can we do so (using our lane and a bit of the oncoming lane, which is busy). Just before I overtake (well, as I started to manoeuvre) I check my blind spot only to see said bike - that has appeared from 'nowhere' and definitely going some - trying to overtake me while I overtake the tractor with cars coming in the opposite direction. Only me slamming on my brakes and the car on the opposite swerving prevented the biker flying over my bonnet or flying through the oncoming car's front window. fecking idiot!

This is just on example of what seems to be happening to me a lot lately - I'm always defending bikers to people I meet saying "It's just like drivers really, there'll always be a minority that make the majority look bad". Thing is, recently i don't know if I believe this anymore - it seems like the majority of us may indeed want to die sooner rather than later. Has anyone else noticed this?

This was a nice 'sports tourer' not some nutter on a gixxer in the middle of summer...

I just think that in the bigger picture, the freedom that biking gives me will be taken away due to the actions of nobjockies!

[El_Bandido]

I know what you mean. i saw an R1 overtaking loads of traffic in a 30 limit on a blind corner the other day (i was in a car too) and embarrased

[Fruit'n'nut]

[G]

One thing I've always liked about bikes is that while they can tempt you to do stupid things (which becomes worse when stupid people get hold of them), it is yourself you're endangerring most of the time.

When car drivers do the same thing they are much more likely to be putting other people in danger. Unfortunately it's the car drivers that see such actions and naturaly would prefer to persecute a different group.

[chris50cc]

I've noticed this lots too. I don't know if everyone does it, but i've never seen a biker (with no exaggeration) that sticks behind traffic to do 30mph. Bikers speed off from the lights leaving cars behind until they reach the next set of lights, and if they get stuck behind a car they over take immediately.

I may seem a bit anti-biker but i'm not, i'm only riding a 50cc so i can't exactly be a rebel and take over lots of cars with ease like you lot. Its just something i've noticed. Does the agility of bike make you feel as though you can't be a part of normal traffic? I'm sure i'll find out when i move up to a bigger bike this year...
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Live to the max
Live for the moment
Live forever!!!

[G]

Maybe you haven't noticed the bikes sticking with the traffic because they're not overtaking you? Logic would suggest that you're likely to notice a lot more bikes going past you than those further back going the same speed .

I try to stick to 30 and 40 limits. I do go to the front of traffic lights and accelerate off hard, but will stop accelerating at the limit in urban areas.

However if the traffic is sitting at below the limit I will filter; I don't particularly enjoy sitting in traffic.
A while back I had to commute right through the center of Reading everyday; it would have taken me twice as long without filtering. While you sometimes get caught up by the cars at the next liughts, other times you get there that bit quicker and so don't have to wait. Also you can obviously go past a whole load of cars when there's a red light.

[hustler]

[chris50cc]

Sorry i didn't make it clear, i was talking about if i'm walking anywhere, i see lots of bikes speeding, not sticking to the 30mph limits because you have to speed in order to take over, which was the point i was trying to make.
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Live to the max
Live for the moment
Live forever!!!

[Finglonga]

[G]

Plenty of car drivers ar happy to do 40 in a 30 and more.

On a bike and in the car I often get people sitting right up my arse getting annoyed because I'm doing 30 in a 30 when there's no traffic.
However these same people will probably get pissed off when a bike goes past them doing 40 in a 30 and their natural dislike of a superiour form of transport takes over .

[byke95]

Good points here, but filtering in a 30 when you're going 30 or speeding off from the lights until you reach the limit is not what I've got a problem with (I do it all the time).

I'm just wondering if we really getting worse 'as a group' when it comes to dangerous acts?

If so, it will inevitably result in the freedom we love (and the occasional acting like a nutter) being taken away from us!

This is not about cagers, or their views on us as such - but the legislation that may result if we don't 'legislate' ourselves.

[paulyzf600]

Filtering I see it as ok if done with control and if you concentrate.
I also go to the front of the traffic lights and the reason ppl accelerate hard off is to go ahead of the car next to you, mind I don't nail it just accelerate normal thats easy quick enough to just pop infront.

It's not comfortable to start and stop on the bike and always put your foot down so I'd say thats the main reason behind filtering oh and cos a bike is narrow and can fit down the middle .......lol

Speeding in a 30 is just daft! and your asking for truoble as a bike will draw more attention than any other vehicle!
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Yamaha YZF600 Thundercat

[Reevo8]

Overtaking in a 30 isnt neccesary, however if I have just spent two miles following a van/lorry/car, which is doing 50mph in a 60, I would happily do over the speed limit, to get in front of the person whom is holding me up.

I overtake all the way into work in the mornings, and all the way home if I am not too knackered to fully concentrate.

And 'Johnny Poweranger' is normally the person whom has ridden a bike for thousands of miles through years, and got bored of getting cold or wet, but still likes to ride a bike which is at least as fast as their old one and due to not riding in the winter, can do with leathers only, and keep their bikes clean.

Im sure that many have misjudged an overtaking opportunity, or misinterpreted what is going on up ahead, and had a near miss or heart stopping moment.

The riders that Joe public see doing the bad stuff, are probably bored of the 80 year old man/women in front squinting like mole man whilst doing 23mph in 30's, and quickly blat by in a 'dangerous' place.
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05 ZX10R, (**05 WKR)

[yambabe]

Bikers are no different to any other sector of the population, there will always be idiots. I don't think they are more prevalent than they used to be, but I do think that if you ride yourself (especially if you haven't been riding long) you tend to notice them more.

I'm sure we can all tell tales of bikers and drivers who we have seen do daft things, and I'm sure we can stereotype them too.

My own beef is with BMW (car) drivers. The more I ride, the more I am convinced they are out to get me. I always get a none-shall-pass BMW when I am fitering, especially if it's on the motorway. I don't filter fast (not at all if the traffic is moving at more than about 30, not more than 5mph or so faster if it's moving slowly, about 10-15mph if traffic is stationary) but every time my path has been blocked by a BMW. Every bloody time! and often deliberately, I see them checking their mirroors & adjusting their road position as I am coming up to them.... this is why I prefer to filter behind the other half, as he is a much miore aggressive rider than I am and he takes his spae much better! I also once (the day of the me-vs-boy-racer-on-the-East-Lancs episode) got overtaken whilst doing about 33 in a 30 by three different BMWs in under 2 miles, and for this to happen to me (although only usually one at a time) is not at all unusual. It's got to the stage where I get nervous if i just happen to see one these days!
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Sod falling in love, I wanna fall in chocolate.

[Project9928]

the A36..... from what I can remember from when I stayed in Landford for a few months was "damn that’s a dangerous road." There were many crashes and deaths in the 4 short months I was down there after the crash with the white van overtaking on the blind turn near Landford Wood it put me right off going on that road.

As for people who ride like that, yes they are idiots and its not only bikers who do this it is cagers as well. I have seen both bikes and cars pulling the most horrendous moves on the road you have ever seen. But as many people say its only the bad riding/driving that is remembered.

As for the over taking, if I am in a line of traffic all going at the speed limit I'm quite happy to sit behind them, but I will filter if there going 10mph or less. I have a friend who is very impatient on his bike and it really worries me when we go out for a ride. Watching him try and over take 4 cars on a 125 in a 50 zone nearly made me have a heart attack

As for BMW drivers they are just as bad as Mercedes drivers. I remember going up the A312 during rush hour, just popping up the middle of the traffic. Then I look ahead, massive gap, until mr I'm in my big flash Mercedes pulls out right into the middle of both lanes so I can't get passed him

[Davo]

I don't know if this is just me, but I find on the rare occasion of me walking somewhere I generally don't notice a speeding car as much as a speeding bike.

[mchaggis]

[bish777]

A large part of bad behaviour for bikers is the "I can filter and overtake easily so i feel i have to all the time!".

If your not in a hurry there isn't any shame in sitting in traffic if its really bad and theres alot of oncoming traffic. Is your life worth getting there ten minutes earlier?
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GSXR1100J

[kasandrich]

Yes I had a similar incident in my Car to the one opening this thread.

I have nothing against bikes filytering and it makes every bit of sense, but it must be done sensibly and with caution, and it is not a right but a privelige.

I was going into roadworks where the road narrowed down, and a bike came past me, now, if I'd not been alert and got on the brakes quick, I would have pinched him out and left him nowhere to go, now that sounds like it could be my fault, but entering roadworks and he's filtering past me, that is down to him, he should've seen the road narrowing and known there wasn't room to filter.

Someone earlie in this thread complained about car drivers performing manouvres without checking their blind spot, well I say if you ride defensivly, which we all need to, then you should not ride in a cars blind spot, its asking for trouble and if you do, then be ready for the unexpected because you know its gonna happen.
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Richard

CBR1000FM

[steve878]

I see loads of dodgy overtakes from both car drivers and bikers. I think the problem is lack of training. When I did my direct access I was never taught to overtake, or filter past lines of traffic, or how to corner properly for that matter. Guess which manoeuvres cause most biker deaths? And when was the last time you heard of someone being killed doing a bloody feet up u-turn?

I reckon the driving standards agency needs to get a grip and start gearing the standards they set to the real world. Yes, people need to know how to manoeuvre their vehicles, but it seems that the L tests for both cars and bikes are biased too much towards that and too little towards making good safe progress in traffic.

[simon1221]

[saints7]

Agree entirely with Steve878. Direct Access training seems to me to be designed to get you through the test not to ride in the real world.

I was lucky. My instructor recognised this and gave some "extra" tips such as filtering, overtaking and counter-steering but non of this (with maybe the exception of the CS'ing) was needed on my test.

By the way - I also have a Mercedes and travel on the stacked M25 a lot and ALWAYS open up a gap for a filtering bike. Don't tar me with the same brush as the other muppets!