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| mkjackary |
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mkjackary
Nitrous Nuisance
Joined: 15 Jul 2016
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 Posted: 16:38 - 15 Jul 2016  Post subject: ER-5 front brakes upgrade, advice/help needed. |
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Hello, new here 
Got a 97 ER-5, front brake is piss poor and spongey.
I figured it is a combination of a crap brake, single disk, air in line, and rubber brake line.
So got myself a steel brake line on the way. Brake fluid wise will anything do?
I was thinking of upgrading the pads, or even the calipers. Is it worth changing the brake caliper? For pads is a £12 ceramic going to improve it at all over OEM?
So yeah, any specific brands/materials of fluid/pads to go for, or does it not matter that much?
Cheers |
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| Itchy |
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Itchy
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Posted: 16:43 - 15 Jul 2016  Post subject: |
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Do the cheapest thing first. Bleed your brakes.
See no difference? Then put newer better parts on the bike.
Or maybe just get another bike as those single discs and sliding calipers are never going to be great for some serious riding nor will the rest of the bike.
____________________
Spain 2008France 2007Big one 2009 We all die. The goal isn't to live forever, the goal is to create something that will. In the end, your life will flash before your eyes. Make sure it is worth watching. |
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mkjackary
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| RhynoCZ |
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RhynoCZ
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| Posted: 16:56 - 15 Jul 2016 Post subject: |
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Now, any DOT 4? Yes, it'll do, there's no need to go for any brand specific brake fluid. Old? Well it shouldn't be a problem if it was in a closed container and stored properly, meaing in a dry and dark place. 
300ml is more than enough.
The lines (braided I suppose) won't help much. Clean up the caliper and lube the pins the caliper slides/floats on. To get the best performance. Now, you have got a floating caliper there, so if you want to change it for something better (a solid 4 pot caliper), then you're gonna need to change the brake disc as well. Because something has got to float, the disc or the caliper.
So,
1) Clean the caliper (check the pots are moving, that they are not getting stuck when pushed out or in)
2) Lube what is supposed to be lubed
3) Fresh brake fluid + proper bleeding
4) Fresh set of brake pads (brand is not important, but go for something you know Brembo, EBC, etc., as you only have to buy a 1 set of pads, go for something fancier, as you won't spent as much as you would with a dual disc brake system)
5) If it's still crap, then it's time to rebuild the caliper and/or the master cylinder.
-----------------------------
You're gonna need some brake/chain cleaner and the brake fluid. Then a 10mm spanner, a hose and syringe. To do the job. If you are not sure, ask a mate or a local shop to check your work afterwards.
____________________
'87 Honda XBR 500, '96 Kawasaki ZX7R P1, '90 Honda CB-1, '88 Kawasaki GPz550, MZ 150 ETZ
'95 Mercedes-Benz w202 C200 CGI, '98 Mercedes-Benz w210 E200 Kompressor
Last edited by RhynoCZ on 17:03 - 15 Jul 2016; edited 1 time in total |
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Itchy
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| Azoth |
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Azoth
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RhynoCZ
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Posted: 17:10 - 15 Jul 2016  Post subject: |
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| Bhang wrote: | Braided steel brake cable is a good upgrade for the GPZ500, and should improve your bike too. |
Is it though? I had a chance to ride a '98 CB500 with the OEM rubber lines and then with braided lines and there was no difference, well, less fluid was used to fill up the system. Well, if the laws of hydraulics told us something, then less fluid shoud not have any effect. 
I always wondered, what would it be like if I had braided lines on the ZX7R, but the front brake worked actually so well, it never occurred to me to even consider any party tricks.
____________________
'87 Honda XBR 500, '96 Kawasaki ZX7R P1, '90 Honda CB-1, '88 Kawasaki GPz550, MZ 150 ETZ
'95 Mercedes-Benz w202 C200 CGI, '98 Mercedes-Benz w210 E200 Kompressor |
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| mkjackary |
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mkjackary
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| Posted: 17:34 - 15 Jul 2016 Post subject: |
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| RhynoCZ wrote: | | Bhang wrote: | Braided steel brake cable is a good upgrade for the GPZ500, and should improve your bike too. |
Is it though? I had a chance to ride a '98 CB500 with the OEM rubber lines and then with braided lines and there was no difference, well, less fluid was used to fill up the system. Well, if the laws of hydraulics told us something, then less fluid shoud not have any effect.
I always wondered, what would it be like if I had braided lines on the ZX7R, but the front brake worked actually so well, it never occurred to me to even consider any party tricks. |
I figured it is relatively cheap, and whilst I am sitting out with the bike for a bit I may aswell do it. Plus it is the original rubber brake line (nearly 20 years old, so probably needed changing anyway). |
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mkjackary
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| Posted: 17:37 - 15 Jul 2016 Post subject: |
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| RhynoCZ wrote: | Now, any DOT 4? Yes, it'll do, there's no need to go for any brand specific brake fluid. Old? Well it shouldn't be a problem if it was in a closed container and stored properly, meaing in a dry and dark place.
300ml is more than enough.
The lines (braided I suppose) won't help much. Clean up the caliper and lube the pins the caliper slides/floats on. To get the best performance. Now, you have got a floating caliper there, so if you want to change it for something better (a solid 4 pot caliper), then you're gonna need to change the brake disc as well. Because something has got to float, the disc or the caliper.
So,
1) Clean the caliper (check the pots are moving, that they are not getting stuck when pushed out or in)
2) Lube what is supposed to be lubed
3) Fresh brake fluid + proper bleeding
4) Fresh set of brake pads (brand is not important, but go for something you know Brembo, EBC, etc., as you only have to buy a 1 set of pads, go for something fancier, as you won't spent as much as you would with a dual disc brake system)
5) If it's still crap, then it's time to rebuild the caliper and/or the master cylinder.
-----------------------------
You're gonna need some brake/chain cleaner and the brake fluid. Then a 10mm spanner, a hose and syringe. To do the job. If you are not sure, ask a mate or a local shop to check your work afterwards. |
Wow, thanks, this will help a lot. I will come back to this when I am doing the brakes.
As for the pads, what material should I go for? Ceramic, organic, semi metallic? etc. Had a quick look at the differences and semi metallic will give the best performance but wear the disk the most. Should I go for that?
Thanks again! |
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| Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg
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RhynoCZ
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Posted: 21:28 - 15 Jul 2016  Post subject: |
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| mkjackary wrote: | | RhynoCZ wrote: | Now, any DOT 4? Yes, it'll do, there's no need to go for any brand specific brake fluid. Old? Well it shouldn't be a problem if it was in a closed container and stored properly, meaing in a dry and dark place.
300ml is more than enough.
The lines (braided I suppose) won't help much. Clean up the caliper and lube the pins the caliper slides/floats on. To get the best performance. Now, you have got a floating caliper there, so if you want to change it for something better (a solid 4 pot caliper), then you're gonna need to change the brake disc as well. Because something has got to float, the disc or the caliper.
So,
1) Clean the caliper (check the pots are moving, that they are not getting stuck when pushed out or in)
2) Lube what is supposed to be lubed
3) Fresh brake fluid + proper bleeding
4) Fresh set of brake pads (brand is not important, but go for something you know Brembo, EBC, etc., as you only have to buy a 1 set of pads, go for something fancier, as you won't spent as much as you would with a dual disc brake system)
5) If it's still crap, then it's time to rebuild the caliper and/or the master cylinder.
-----------------------------
You're gonna need some brake/chain cleaner and the brake fluid. Then a 10mm spanner, a hose and syringe. To do the job. If you are not sure, ask a mate or a local shop to check your work afterwards. |
Wow, thanks, this will help a lot. I will come back to this when I am doing the brakes.
As for the pads, what material should I go for? Ceramic, organic, semi metallic? etc. Had a quick look at the differences and semi metallic will give the best performance but wear the disk the most. Should I go for that?
Thanks again! |
I've got a very positive experience with sintered pads from Brembo. So I would suggest you to try some sintered pads as well. Many manufacturers make sintered pads these days.
About the longevity of the brake disc, many would suggest to get a soft compound brake pads. The idea behind this is, the soft pads won't last that long, meaning they won't wear the disc as much as an harder compound pads would. Well, you would need to put some milage on your bike to tell the difference, or at least that is my opinion on this matter.
I used the Brembo SA (red) pads on the ZX7R (a heavy and fast motorcycle). They say those are supposed to be the direct swap for the OEM Nissin pads (= what they fit in Japan, when you buy a brand new Japanese motorcycle). Anyway, those pads worked great cold, hot, dry and wet. Mind you the ZX7R was a road legal bike used on the open road, so maybe, just maybe if I took it to the track, the brake performance might fade with excessive heat (that's where the race stuff would work the best), but on the open road it was working more than well enough. One finger on the lever was enough to keep the full control over the braking.
Anyway, what ever you decide to pick, avoid race/track brake pads. Many of those are designed to work the best at rather high temperatures. A friend of mine had a set of ''race spec'' brake pads on his Fireblade and you could tell the brakes were crap when cold. I don't know what kind of rider are you, but to keep the brakes warm enough on the open road, one must keep the pace up.
EDIT: By the way, the brake fluid seriously dries/irritates your skin, so avoid contact and/or wear some rubber gloves. Don't get any of it in your eyes (no need for goggles, just be reasonable with your actions, when bleeding the brakes). I know the proper men do everything bare hands, but it's not the 80's anymore and I never really enjoyed itchy and dry hands for a week or so. Nobody's gonna call you a nancy boy, for wearing some gloves (cheap stuff really). Also, long term skin exposure to used engine/gear oil and coolant actually causes skin cancer. Long term would be every day for a long period of time, not your case, I'm just mentioning that.
____________________
'87 Honda XBR 500, '96 Kawasaki ZX7R P1, '90 Honda CB-1, '88 Kawasaki GPz550, MZ 150 ETZ
'95 Mercedes-Benz w202 C200 CGI, '98 Mercedes-Benz w210 E200 Kompressor |
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mkjackary
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| Posted: 22:20 - 15 Jul 2016 Post subject: |
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| RhynoCZ wrote: |
I've got a very positive experience with sintered pads from Brembo. So I would suggest you to try some sintered pads as well. Many manufacturers make sintered pads these days.
About the longevity of the brake disc, many would suggest to get a soft compound brake pads. The idea behind this is, the soft pads won't last that long, meaning they won't wear the disc as much as an harder compound pads would. Well, you would need to put some milage on your bike to tell the difference, or at least that is my opinion on this matter.
I used the Brembo SA (red) pads on the ZX7R (a heavy and fast motorcycle). They say those are supposed to be the direct swap for the OEM Nissin pads (= what they fit in Japan, when you buy a brand new Japanese motorcycle). Anyway, those pads worked great cold, hot, dry and wet. Mind you the ZX7R was a road legal bike used on the open road, so maybe, just maybe if I took it to the track, the brake performance might fade with excessive heat (that's where the race stuff would work the best), but on the open road it was working more than well enough. One finger on the lever was enough to keep the full control over the braking.
Anyway, what ever you decide to pick, avoid race/track brake pads. Many of those are designed to work the best at rather high temperatures. A friend of mine had a set of ''race spec'' brake pads on his Fireblade and you could tell the brakes were crap when cold. I don't know what kind of rider are you, but to keep the brakes warm enough on the open road, one must keep the pace up.
EDIT: By the way, the brake fluid seriously dries/irritates your skin, so avoid contact and/or wear some rubber gloves. Don't get any of it in your eyes (no need for goggles, just be reasonable with your actions, when bleeding the brakes). I know the proper men do everything bare hands, but it's not the 80's anymore and I never really enjoyed itchy and dry hands for a week or so. Nobody's gonna call you a nancy boy, for wearing some gloves (cheap stuff really). Also, long term skin exposure to used engine/gear oil and coolant actually causes skin cancer. Long term would be every day for a long period of time, not your case, I'm just mentioning that. |
So this is the third time writing this out, this text editor takes some getting used to 
I learnt and was tested on an ER-6n that was spanking new. Brakes on that were brilliant, rock solid too.
Going from that to my ER-5 that is 20 years old was a bit of a shock, but I have got around it mostly using gear braking (in combination with front and back) to slow down for everything apart from the last little bit.
Good point on the race/track pads, hadn't thought of it like that.
EDC are a good british company, are the EDC sintered HH pads any good? like this
And yes, time to get out the fluffy gloves, brake fluid is nasty stuff. My bike has a mark on the tank where the previous owner spilt some brake fluid when topping it up. Gotta be careful[/url] |
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pompousporcup...
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RhynoCZ
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| Posted: 08:16 - 16 Jul 2016 Post subject: |
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Oh, now I see the problem. Going from a modern ER-6 to a older ER-5. I'm not sure how bad your front brake is now, but there is a possibility it's not broken at all, it might be a feature of the ER-5. It is a cheap commuter after all.
Well, anyway, do as we all say, clean it, bleed it, fit some new pads, report back to us. 
____________________
'87 Honda XBR 500, '96 Kawasaki ZX7R P1, '90 Honda CB-1, '88 Kawasaki GPz550, MZ 150 ETZ
'95 Mercedes-Benz w202 C200 CGI, '98 Mercedes-Benz w210 E200 Kompressor |
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Teflon-Mike
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| Posted: 17:22 - 16 Jul 2016 Post subject: Re: ER-5 front brakes upgrade, advice/help needed. |
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| mkjackary wrote: | I was thinking of upgrading the pads, or even the calipers. Is it worth changing the brake caliper? |
Padock Lore, rule 1: "Before Looking for more than 'standard', make sure you have all you should AS 'standard'
Padock Lore rule 2: "Identify the 'weak link' & address that first"
The ER6 was a new bike, and belonging to a bike school, it's likely to be very well maintained, especially compared to a 20 year old commuter 'hack'... and when it comes to brakes, even experienced riders often confuse 'sharp' with 'powerful'...
Brakes turn Kinetic energy into heat; Power is Rate of change of energy; so how 'powerful' they are is a function of how quickly they will slow you down.
How 'sharp' they are is a question of 'feel' and the amount of 'reaction' you perceive to the amount of pressure you put on the lever..... with the 'take up' as the brakes start to bite, and then weight shift and fork dive, this is often NOT actually proportional to how quick you are stopping.
Worth remembering that brakes dissipate Kinetic Energy, which is Half Mass times Velocity Squared; double the speed, you have four times the Kinetic energy; for a given brake 'power', rate of energy change, remember.... they will slow you more the slower you are going.
ER5 will accelerate from 0-60 in about 4s, using all its 35Kw of engine power; it's brakes will slow you down from 60 to 0 in about half that time, they are probably twice as 'powerful' as the engine... 70Kw or so...
But due to that exponential in Kinetic Energy, just like acceleration taking longer from 50-80mph, than from 0-30, so slowing from 80-50 takes longer than from 30-0... brake can only dissipate so much energy in a fixed time, so with exponentially more energy to change at higher speeds, as you slow down, and kinetic energy is reduced by the brake, so the more deceleration you can get as you decelerate... Which is why stopping distances get longer the faster you go.
It's also why, we 'modulate' brake pressure as we slow down; at 90mph, we can put quite a bit of pressure on the lever and we dont get an awful lot of deceleration for it, but as we slow through maybe 50, and certainly as we get down to 30 or so, so we have to start easing off the brake to avoid the wheel locking.....
So lets look at the padock lore; What is the weak link?
Brake is about twice as powerful as your engine; it can certainly disssipate a lot of kinetic energy very quickly.... if you made the brake more powerful... able to dissipate even more energy, faster... what would happen?
Yup... you would be able to lock the wheel quicker....... this probably wont have quite the effect you hope, will it?
The 'weak link' usually isn't how much energy the brake can dissipate, it is the limit of grip the tyre has!
You can already lock the wheel; the caliper can apply more braking force than the tyre can handle.... so the caliper isn't the 'weak link', is it?
If you want to be able to stop quicker, better tyres will more likely give you the gain you seek, not a more powerful caliper.....
Next up; you have a 20 year old commuter hack, that like as not, is well past its prime, and not been treated to the best levels of service maintenance.. it's gonna be a bit 'sloppy'...
In the chain of events that follow applying the brakes, all that 'slop' will translate to a 'feel' that doesn't seem so 'immediate', as the force on the lever compresses everything that's a bit worn or old in the system, as forks dive and the tyre 'loads'.
Again, so much of what is percieved as brake 'power' often isn't its 'sharpness', the 'feel'.
So, before looking for more than standard, make sure you have all you should as standard.... the brake you have is almost certainly more than 'powerful' enough, and the weak-link not the caliper but the tyre. It just doesn't 'feel' like it....
And a good thorough service, and not just of the brake, but the wheel and suspension and steering is far more likely to do more to improve that 'feel' than trying to 'upgrade' the brake.....
To join the debate on braided hoses; yes, they do take out 'complience' in the hydraulics; less flex in the hose they wont increase the amount of force they can transmit from lever to caliper, but they do effect the 'feel' and make brakes 'sharper'... though, I suspect few have ever replaced a 'good' rubber hose and line with braided, and having to replace the fluid when you change the line and bleed the system, most of the difference people report is often mostly from that....
But follow through, and service everything, and fork oil is oft neglected, and a big influence.... wheel bearings commonly ignored until they start whining or the MOT man moans; head-race bearings like-wise out of sight, out of mind....
And you have a bike that is twenty years old, of a type that has likely had to work for a living for most of that, in the hands of owners reluctant to spend time or money on such diligence.....
THAT is where you would find most real gains to not just braking, and actual stopping power, not just 'feel', but in overall handling and performance.
Also likely to far less frighten an insurance company than declaring modifying the brakes to them 
Which brings me to Padock Lore rule 3; "Want a faster bike? Fit a Better Rider!"
It's actually sort of rule 2 applied... rider is more often the weakest link!
Bain of the hydraulic disk IMO is the effect it has had on driving/riding standards, pandering to 'reactive' driving/riding tendencies... not looking so far up the road, paying so much attention to whats going on around you, where hazards may be and being 'predictive' of what's going to happen, & riding at a speed and following distance appropriate to that, so you don't NEED to use the brakes so often, in such a hurry, or so hard....
Thought for you; every time you touch the brakes, you dump speed.... somewhat ironic that folk that want to go fast, so often want better brakes to go slower!
Point to Point, you will often go 'faster' not by trying to reach higher speeds, but by holding a higher 'average', not slowing down so much, so often.... and 'Predictive' riding/driving' is a key skill to that.
More; every time you touch the brakes, you dump hard won kinetic energy into free air as heat. That energy came from burning fuel in the engine, so you are wasting petrol... more every time you use the brakes you generate big forces that place big loads on parts to wear them out, starting with the brake pads that are deliberately designed to be worn out.... DONT use the brakes, then, you save fuel, you save brake pads, you save tyres, you save 'grip' and you save wear and tear on the rest of the bike....
Its ALL 'win'. You save time, getting places faster, but at the same time, you save money, not burning petrol to 'waste' on the brakes; and you save more time and more money, NOT having to do so much servicing to maintain the standard of the machine, so all round you can get more of its useful performance from it. And you don't have to get your hands dirty messing with spanners; or frighten insurance companies declaring contentious mods.
Slow is Smooth, Smooth is Fast... And it's 'safer'; and it saves you money, and hassle and effort... its all win, and to get it costs nothing, just a small change in approach and attitude and how far up the road you look, and what you look for.
My advice, then is don't fret about upgrades; keep it simple, Keep it standard and service it to standard to get the most 'performance' from what you got.
Fit good tyres and take care of them; and learn smooth predictive riding, to get more miles for your money, more safely, and use more of the available performance you have more often, not wasting it reacting to stuff you could have seen coming.
____________________
My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?' |
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mkjackary
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| Posted: 17:37 - 16 Jul 2016 Post subject: Re: ER-5 front brakes upgrade, advice/help needed. |
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| Teflon-Mike wrote: | | mkjackary wrote: | I was thinking of upgrading the pads, or even the calipers. Is it worth changing the brake caliper? |
Padock Lore, rule 1: "Before Looking for more than 'standard', make sure you have all you should AS 'standard'
Padock Lore rule 2: "Identify the 'weak link' & address that first"
The ER6 was a new bike, and belonging to a bike school, it's likely to be very well maintained, especially compared to a 20 year old commuter 'hack'... and when it comes to brakes, even experienced riders often confuse 'sharp' with 'powerful'...
Brakes turn Kinetic energy into heat; Power is Rate of change of energy; so how 'powerful' they are is a function of how quickly they will slow you down.
How 'sharp' they are is a question of 'feel' and the amount of 'reaction' you perceive to the amount of pressure you put on the lever..... with the 'take up' as the brakes start to bite, and then weight shift and fork dive, this is often NOT actually proportional to how quick you are stopping.
Worth remembering that brakes dissipate Kinetic Energy, which is Half Mass times Velocity Squared; double the speed, you have four times the Kinetic energy; for a given brake 'power', rate of energy change, remember.... they will slow you more the slower you are going.
ER5 will accelerate from 0-60 in about 4s, using all its 35Kw of engine power; it's brakes will slow you down from 60 to 0 in about half that time, they are probably twice as 'powerful' as the engine... 70Kw or so...
But due to that exponential in Kinetic Energy, just like acceleration taking longer from 50-80mph, than from 0-30, so slowing from 80-50 takes longer than from 30-0... brake can only dissipate so much energy in a fixed time, so with exponentially more energy to change at higher speeds, as you slow down, and kinetic energy is reduced by the brake, so the more deceleration you can get as you decelerate... Which is why stopping distances get longer the faster you go.
It's also why, we 'modulate' brake pressure as we slow down; at 90mph, we can put quite a bit of pressure on the lever and we dont get an awful lot of deceleration for it, but as we slow through maybe 50, and certainly as we get down to 30 or so, so we have to start easing off the brake to avoid the wheel locking.....
So lets look at the padock lore; What is the weak link?
Brake is about twice as powerful as your engine; it can certainly disssipate a lot of kinetic energy very quickly.... if you made the brake more powerful... able to dissipate even more energy, faster... what would happen?
Yup... you would be able to lock the wheel quicker....... this probably wont have quite the effect you hope, will it?
The 'weak link' usually isn't how much energy the brake can dissipate, it is the limit of grip the tyre has!
You can already lock the wheel; the caliper can apply more braking force than the tyre can handle.... so the caliper isn't the 'weak link', is it?
If you want to be able to stop quicker, better tyres will more likely give you the gain you seek, not a more powerful caliper.....
Next up; you have a 20 year old commuter hack, that like as not, is well past its prime, and not been treated to the best levels of service maintenance.. it's gonna be a bit 'sloppy'...
In the chain of events that follow applying the brakes, all that 'slop' will translate to a 'feel' that doesn't seem so 'immediate', as the force on the lever compresses everything that's a bit worn or old in the system, as forks dive and the tyre 'loads'.
Again, so much of what is percieved as brake 'power' often isn't its 'sharpness', the 'feel'.
So, before looking for more than standard, make sure you have all you should as standard.... the brake you have is almost certainly more than 'powerful' enough, and the weak-link not the caliper but the tyre. It just doesn't 'feel' like it....
And a good thorough service, and not just of the brake, but the wheel and suspension and steering is far more likely to do more to improve that 'feel' than trying to 'upgrade' the brake.....
To join the debate on braided hoses; yes, they do take out 'complience' in the hydraulics; less flex in the hose they wont increase the amount of force they can transmit from lever to caliper, but they do effect the 'feel' and make brakes 'sharper'... though, I suspect few have ever replaced a 'good' rubber hose and line with braided, and having to replace the fluid when you change the line and bleed the system, most of the difference people report is often mostly from that....
But follow through, and service everything, and fork oil is oft neglected, and a big influence.... wheel bearings commonly ignored until they start whining or the MOT man moans; head-race bearings like-wise out of sight, out of mind....
And you have a bike that is twenty years old, of a type that has likely had to work for a living for most of that, in the hands of owners reluctant to spend time or money on such diligence.....
THAT is where you would find most real gains to not just braking, and actual stopping power, not just 'feel', but in overall handling and performance.
Also likely to far less frighten an insurance company than declaring modifying the brakes to them
Which brings me to Padock Lore rule 3; "Want a faster bike? Fit a Better Rider!"
It's actually sort of rule 2 applied... rider is more often the weakest link!
Bain of the hydraulic disk IMO is the effect it has had on driving/riding standards, pandering to 'reactive' driving/riding tendencies... not looking so far up the road, paying so much attention to whats going on around you, where hazards may be and being 'predictive' of what's going to happen, & riding at a speed and following distance appropriate to that, so you don't NEED to use the brakes so often, in such a hurry, or so hard....
Thought for you; every time you touch the brakes, you dump speed.... somewhat ironic that folk that want to go fast, so often want better brakes to go slower!
Point to Point, you will often go 'faster' not by trying to reach higher speeds, but by holding a higher 'average', not slowing down so much, so often.... and 'Predictive' riding/driving' is a key skill to that.
More; every time you touch the brakes, you dump hard won kinetic energy into free air as heat. That energy came from burning fuel in the engine, so you are wasting petrol... more every time you use the brakes you generate big forces that place big loads on parts to wear them out, starting with the brake pads that are deliberately designed to be worn out.... DONT use the brakes, then, you save fuel, you save brake pads, you save tyres, you save 'grip' and you save wear and tear on the rest of the bike....
Its ALL 'win'. You save time, getting places faster, but at the same time, you save money, not burning petrol to 'waste' on the brakes; and you save more time and more money, NOT having to do so much servicing to maintain the standard of the machine, so all round you can get more of its useful performance from it. And you don't have to get your hands dirty messing with spanners; or frighten insurance companies declaring contentious mods.
Slow is Smooth, Smooth is Fast... And it's 'safer'; and it saves you money, and hassle and effort... its all win, and to get it costs nothing, just a small change in approach and attitude and how far up the road you look, and what you look for.
My advice, then is don't fret about upgrades; keep it simple, Keep it standard and service it to standard to get the most 'performance' from what you got.
Fit good tyres and take care of them; and learn smooth predictive riding, to get more miles for your money, more safely, and use more of the available performance you have more often, not wasting it reacting to stuff you could have seen coming. |
Great post, thanks a lot!
I will have to be careful after changing the line/fluid/possibly pads as I am used to having to brake x amount, but if I squeeze the breaks the same amount with twice as powerfull/responsive brakes then I may just go head over heals.
I will change the line because I may aswell, and it needs changing anyway, as I'm doing that I will have to flush/change brake fluid.
Just changed the oil filter and dear god, it was gross! Same one as the one that came on it, so I am guessing the pads are pretty old too, and were probably bought because of cheapness not braking power.
Hopefully that will improve the braking a decent amount, and if not, then oh well, it is my first bike, if I get used to a bike with shite brakes, when I go onto a bigger bike with better brakes I will be better off.
Thanks |
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| Robby |
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Robby
Dirty Old Man
Joined: 16 May 2002
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| Posted: 16:05 - 17 Jul 2016 Post subject: |
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Chances are it's got a load of alloy corrosion behind the seals. This makes brakes feel wooden and weak.
Usual things to sort out old brakes:
1. New pads. If the bike has been poorly maintained, then the pads could be shit, or contaminated with oil from a blown fork seal. Worth getting a new set, just about anything would do but I would avoid the dirt cheap Kyoto pads on ebay. They are truly shit.
2. Clean the caliper - easy bit. Clean the outside of the caliper with brake cleaner. With sliding caliper (which you have), slide the caliper body off the slider. Wipe off the old grease and gunk from the sliding pins, then put some fresh grease into the rubber bellows and push the slider back in. It should move in quite smoothly. I tend to use copper grease for this bit.
If, when you wipe the grease off, the sliding pin looks rough and rusty, clean it up with some emery paper.
If the brake pads have their own mounting/sliding pin, remove it and have a look. If it looks rusty, clean it up with some emery paper. I clamp it in a drill and spin it in a fold of emery paper to do this quickly. If it looks notched, replace it. The pads need to move smoothly on that pin. Give it a wipe with copper grease before reinstalling.
3. Clean the caliper - the harder bit, that you probably need to do.
This entails removing the pistons and seals. You will be spilling brake fluid. Good to have an old towel on the ground, and a wet rag nearby to mop any brake fluid off paintwork.
a. Remove the caliper from the disc, do not remove the brake line. Remove the pads and slider so you can see the piston(s).
b. Pump the brake a few times, you should see the piston(s) move out of the caliper. Chances are one moves more than the other in twin or multi piston calipers. Hold or clamp down the easy one, then keep pumping until the other one pops out, along with a mess of brake fluid.
c. If the piston looks clean, put it somewhere safe. If it looks slightly corroded, try cleaning it up with very smooth emery paper or preferably a finishing pad. If it is heavily corroded it needs replacing.
d. Look in the hole in the caliper that the piston just came out of. Part way down this hole is the seal. With a pick or a jeweller's screwdriver, very carefully remove this seal, noting which way up it goes - you will want to install it the same way round. Put it somewhere safe.
e. With a pick, gently scrape behind where the seal was. Expect to see some dusty white powder come out - this is what happens when alloy corrodes, and it's fucking with your brakes. Scrape it out, then give the area a blast with brake cleaner.
f. Reinstall the seal with a smear of brake fluid as lube. Then reinstall the piston, again with a smear of brake fluid as lube. You should be able to push it in with your fingers, you might need to use a clamp if you have weak fingers.
g. Repeat these steps for the other piston(s). You may need to top up the brake fluid or do some bleeding to get enough pressure to force out the other piston - this is why you do the hard piston first, needs more pressure to move.
Finish with a brake fluid change. Enjoy your magic new brakes. |
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