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my first "accident"

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rimaarts
L Plate Warrior



Joined: 07 Aug 2016
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PostPosted: 21:18 - 07 Aug 2016    Post subject: my first "accident" Reply with quote

So! Since may i have been comuting trough center of london. today i had accident. basically i want to dissect it and see what to do next time when i meet a moron like that. unfortunately no helmet cam so cant put up a video anywhere.

going on horse guard avenue, im going straight (straight lane), left lane (turn left) is empty, so like half of londons motorcyclists i check that noone is using left lane and ride till the end, and position so im merging back to straight lane near red light (yes i know, wrong, but hey, lane is empty, and everyone is doing it! Smile ), suddenly i notice bmw nearly rear ending me, and positioning the same as me to merge with straight lane traffic... i remember thinking... ok, i dont see THAT agressive driving daily and forget about him...

turn on victoria embankment "single lane" part, traffic is not standing, but moving slowly so i dont try to squeeze past but basically move from left lane side to right lane side to see whats happening and if a BIG gap opens up for the moment, and also another bike is infront of me so i figure filtering away is rude! Smile

after a while , victoria embankment splits to sort of 2 lanes
(honestly, i never understood?!? a whole line on the left is for bus stops, busses are never there, and yet noone drives there.... ?? i "usually" do, if on the right is a big traffic jam, but today i thought filtering past bike infront of me is rude! Smile so i keep on slowly riding keeping in my lane, suddenly i hear the same bmw beeping to let him go (mind you, road is a big traffic jam, than this bike and me following him), on the right is solid white lines, and i "think" its a single line because traffic kept in single file with bus stops on the right...

and suddenly that bmw just accelerates to overtake... and guess what? rides right into me! like pushing me off the road! i was so stunned that my right leg kept contact with his car for a while! (all the while he opened window cursing me) surprisingly somehow i didnt drop the bike, and he just accelerated away to the next stop light.. i ended up with a hole in my pants, and broken toe slider against his car, and since metal toe slider had scrap of paint on, i assume his car ended up with a nice scratch!



so basically if all would have happened slower, or i would have actually anticipated that a car can cross the solid line into oncoming traffic, AND accelerate faster than a bike i would probably managed to swerve left and honk my horn.
but since im on the road only since may...

what could have i done to prevent it?
what to actually do when someone overtakes you while being the same line as you and tries to push you off the road and your leg makes contact with his door? on 2 wheels can i actually separate from him without falling off the bike?

hypotethically, im riding, keeping into my lane, right on the speed limit and/or following speed of a car infront of me.. someone wants to overtake me, and beeps me to let him go... do i HAVE to let him go? ok if there is no cars infront of me, i will move over and let him go, but why would i let him go if im following a bike infront of me ? or a car infront of me??

if im sitting in my lane, someone beeps me to let him pass and suddenly swipes me off the road... that is not "my fault", is it?

sorry for the long rant, but im pretty pissed about my first accident... :/
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wristjob
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PostPosted: 21:45 - 07 Aug 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

paint diagram or it never happened
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 06:34 - 08 Aug 2016    Post subject: Re: my first "accident" Reply with quote

tl;dr summary: London + BMW driver = aggressive cu​nt impatient to get stuck at the next set of lights.

The instant you notice a mentalist on the road giving you grief, get out of their vicinity by any means necessary. Filter, stop, turn off, and/or ride through red lights.

Get a camera, lose (I assume) your L plates.
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rimaarts
L Plate Warrior



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PostPosted: 07:38 - 08 Aug 2016    Post subject: Re: my first "accident" Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
tl;dr summary: London + BMW driver = aggressive cu​nt impatient to get stuck at the next set of lights.

The instant you notice a mentalist on the road giving you grief, get out of their vicinity by any means necessary. Filter, stop, turn off, and/or ride through red lights.

Get a camera, lose (I assume) your L plates.



Haha sorry, no diagram yet, can'tan age to draw something I'm not ashamed to post in Internet! But I keep trying

Yip.. l plates... and strange thing is that I have noticed 90% of time people are more polite, I assume because of l plates, you know, expect crap, he has l plates so cant drive properly....
unless I try national speed limit.. Evil or Very Mad

Yes I think know I should have assumed that a car "can" overtake there... just in 4 month of riding this was first time in there for a car behaving worse than a motorbike! Very Happy

Regards cameras... half of my commute is after 11pm and I seriously don't want to spend 300 on a gopro 4 black to get a clear video in street light.... gopro.hero.session looks nice, cheap... but in dark you can't grab number plates off of it... is it good enough?
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Holdawayt
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PostPosted: 09:23 - 08 Aug 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd say you're over thinking it and need to alter your positioning in the road to defend yourself a bit better. As said above though, if in any doubt about a driver being a dick, just get away from him asap. He's in a 1.5 tonne battering ram. It's not him who's going to get hurt.
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supZ
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PostPosted: 11:28 - 08 Aug 2016    Post subject: Re: my first "accident" Reply with quote

rimaarts wrote:

Yes I think know I should have assumed that a car "can" overtake there... just in 4 month of riding this was first time in there for a car behaving worse than a motorbike! Very Happy

Always assume everyone around you will do something stupid and prepare accordingly.
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Cronik
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PostPosted: 11:55 - 09 Aug 2016    Post subject: Re: my first "accident" Reply with quote

supZ wrote:
rimaarts wrote:

Yes I think know I should have assumed that a car "can" overtake there... just in 4 month of riding this was first time in there for a car behaving worse than a motorbike! Very Happy

Always assume everyone around you will do something stupid and prepare accordingly.


This also translates to the supermarket- like putting condoms in old people's baskets.
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Karloss
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PostPosted: 17:45 - 11 Aug 2016    Post subject: Re: my first "accident" Reply with quote

rimaarts wrote:


Yip.. l plates... and strange thing is that I have noticed 90% of time people are more polite, I assume because of l plates,


I'm amazed.
I have always said, L plates are THE most dangerous thing you can fit to a motorcycle. (except maybe something from the James Bond collection)

You may as well ride around with a big sign saying "please do something stupid and or dangerous far too close to me"

Had soooo much less stupidity surrounding me since ditching those things. Even whilst still on the 125.
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Cronik
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PostPosted: 22:13 - 11 Aug 2016    Post subject: Re: my first "accident" Reply with quote

Karloss wrote:
rimaarts wrote:


Yip.. l plates... and strange thing is that I have noticed 90% of time people are more polite, I assume because of l plates,


I'm amazed.
I have always said, L plates are THE most dangerous thing you can fit to a motorcycle. (except maybe something from the James Bond collection)

You may as well ride around with a big sign saying "please do something stupid and or dangerous far too close to me"

Had soooo much less stupidity surrounding me since ditching those things. Even whilst still on the 125.


Had a...

"BMW"

"angrily" (they often go together)

swerve around me today for no reason (doing 40 on a 40)


Can only put it to the vex-inducing L plates of fury.
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c_dug
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PostPosted: 22:24 - 11 Aug 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

The solution is to be quicker, which will come with experience of the roads and traffic. I do that route daily - there is no chance a car would keep up with me during weekday traffic.

Next time, forget the other bikers, forget solid white lines, zig zags, traffic islands, cycle boxes blah blah blah.... It's London, if there isn't a police car in sight, and you're not endangering other people - anything goes.

Don't cut people up too aggressively, don't go too head on with other traffic, try not to hit too many pedestrians, and remember that only a cunt hits the car in front.

If you can do all of the above you'll be fine on your commute.
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carpe_diem
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PostPosted: 10:00 - 12 Aug 2016    Post subject: Re: my first "accident" Reply with quote

Karloss wrote:
rimaarts wrote:


Yip.. l plates... and strange thing is that I have noticed 90% of time people are more polite, I assume because of l plates,


I'm amazed.
I have always said, L plates are THE most dangerous thing you can fit to a motorcycle. (except maybe something from the James Bond collection)

You may as well ride around with a big sign saying "please do something stupid and or dangerous far too close to me"

Had soooo much less stupidity surrounding me since ditching those things. Even whilst still on the 125.


I'd forgotten how many fucking numbskulls there are on the roads - the kind of people who will look straight at you as you come along at 30pmh, wait until the last fucking minute and then pull out of their junction like you're not there. Cunts. Wednesday some idiot fucking taxi driver stopped in the middle of the road in front of me to have a conversation with his mate. If I'd have been in a car there's no way he could have got away with that, as I'd have been in his boot.

And what's with the fucking idiots who roar past you when you're doing the speed limit, then tuck in just in front of you and carry on at the speed limit? What's the fucking point in that?

Is the general consensus that people start paying attention and not trying to kill you when you ditch the Ls then?
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NJD
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PostPosted: 10:24 - 12 Aug 2016    Post subject: Re: my first "accident" Reply with quote

carpe_diem wrote:
And what's with the fucking idiots who roar past you when you're doing the speed limit, then tuck in just in front of you and carry on at the speed limit? What's the fucking point in that?


Stay in Lane 1 and do your thing, forget everyone else. So long as you're not holding up traffic in Lane 2 then idiots will be idiots.

carpe_diem wrote:
Is the general consensus that people start paying attention and not trying to kill you when you ditch the Ls then?


No, it still happens even to riders that have a full license (of any category) but I'd expect it to be somewhat reduced because at that point (having gained a license) you've been taught dominant road positioning, forward planing, spot hazards further away etc and therefore are better equipped to deal with other idiot road users.

The truth with L plates is that people who have them are learning and therefore are unpredictable. When I approach a L plated car I'm either getting past and as far ahead as possible or staying well back, to me they're a danger and I don't want to be anywhere near them. I haven't really come across any L plated bikers recently but I don't mind hanging around behind them as much, keep the traffic away etc (or just because my bikes as slow as there's and I've got no powaaaah to overtake <sadface>).
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carpe_diem
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PostPosted: 10:37 - 12 Aug 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, NJD. Hopefully as my experience increases and I do my licence I'll be able to avoid these situations a bit more.
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c_dug
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PostPosted: 17:25 - 12 Aug 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

carpe_diem wrote:
If I'd have been in a car there's no way he could have got away with that, as I'd have been in his boot.


I repeat:

c_dug wrote:
and remember that only a cunt hits the car in front.

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carpe_diem
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PostPosted: 17:33 - 12 Aug 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll bear that in mind Smile
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Val
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PostPosted: 19:58 - 12 Aug 2016    Post subject: Re: my first "accident" Reply with quote

rimaarts wrote:
Rogerborg wrote:
Get a camera


Regards cameras... half of my commute is after 11pm and I seriously don't want to spend 300 on a gopro 4 black to get a clear video in street light.... gopro.hero.session looks nice, cheap... but in dark you can't grab number plates off of it... is it good enough?


After I have put a backwards facing camera on my bike you would be surprised how much better drivers behave now. The point is you even do not need to turn it on for that matter. It deters them from getting too close.

Next time somebody beeps you, you just point to the camera on the back.

And you do not need to spend money for GoPro - cheap SJCAM clone will do the same job.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 07:47 - 13 Aug 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

A matchbox painted black would do the same job, in your imagination.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 10:18 - 13 Aug 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Move out of London.

Problem solved.
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Val
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PostPosted: 18:35 - 13 Aug 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
A matchbox painted black would do the same job, in your imagination.


That may be the case Laughing I always prefer to see the cup full although it may be actually empty Laughing
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c_dug
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PostPosted: 18:46 - 13 Aug 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

stinkwheel wrote:
Move out of London.

Problem solved.


Unfortunately we can't all fist cows for work Mr. Green
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carpe_diem
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PostPosted: 20:49 - 13 Aug 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

c_dug wrote:
stinkwheel wrote:
Move out of London.

Problem solved.


Unfortunately we can't all fist cows for work Mr. Green


Hey, I resent that. I don't live in London and I don't fist cows for work. I do it for pleasure, but I've never been paid for it in my life.
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Falco
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PostPosted: 21:10 - 13 Aug 2016    Post subject: Re: my first "accident" Reply with quote

NJD wrote:
carpe_diem wrote:
And what's with the fucking idiots who roar past you when you're doing the speed limit, then tuck in just in front of you and carry on at the speed limit? What's the fucking point in that?


Stay in Lane 1 and do your thing, forget everyone else. So long as you're not holding up traffic in Lane 2 then idiots will be idiots.


Out of interest, what should be done on roads where there is only one lane (per side of the road)? I do mostly country riding and I can't count how many times I have had cars right on my rear wheel, desperate to overtake, while I do *slightly* over the speed limit.

Where do you draw the line between taking the dominant road position and letting cars overtake?
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NJD
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PostPosted: 21:32 - 13 Aug 2016    Post subject: Re: my first "accident" Reply with quote

FredTheHorse wrote:
Out of interest, what should be done on roads where there is only one lane (per side of the road)? I do mostly country riding and I can't count how many times I have had cars right on my rear wheel, desperate to overtake, while I do *slightly* over the speed limit.

Where do you draw the line between taking the dominant road position and letting cars overtake?


I never have, yet, ridden on a country lane and therefore would not be able to comment.

As for regular single lane roads with traffic in both directions it depends on the situation and many variables. In the past I've had cars (on a 30mph road) overtake me and then speed past the wrong side of a small traffic island just to prove a point. I've also had cars wait until the road opens up with a long stretch to perform a safe overtake. I'd say depending on what type of driver you've got behind you make a decision and stick with it.

If someones going fast-er than the limit but they're not putting you in danger then continue as you are in your domination position and let them do as they wish, as of putting as it is. In this case I'm not going to put myself in the gutter because some nutter wants to get home five minutes quicker because no plod around so why not, I can't vanish me and the bike out the way so I'm not putting myself in further danger and out of position for this numpty.

As for the guy who wants to drive round the wrong side of a traffic island we're on different wavelengths and idiots will be idiots. Personally I like to toy with them because locally there's plenty of young lands who think they're better than their actual ability is because rented car but in truth and the sensible approach would be to pull over in a safe place and allow them past to then both get on your way, there's no point having someone rub up your arse who clearly isn't going to stop if you come of, so why prolong the option increasing the chance of it happening?

Apply common sense to your given situation and you'll be fine. I'm not saying don't move out the way for an idiot or two but at the same time I personally don't make a habit of riding in the gutter because of mr boy racer behind me.
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Azoth
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PostPosted: 22:28 - 13 Aug 2016    Post subject: Re: my first "accident" Reply with quote

FredTheHorse wrote:
Out of interest, what should be done on roads where there is only one lane (per side of the road)? I do mostly country riding and I can't count how many times I have had cars right on my rear wheel, desperate to overtake, while I do *slightly* over the speed limit.

Where do you draw the line between taking the dominant road position and letting cars overtake?


Speed limits are often ignored guidelines on country roads. The real speeds out there are slow and fast. If you're taking a sharp corner, or if there are cameras, then you're going slowly. If you're keeping up with the flow of traffic, then you're going fast. Typically, car traffic is either the 40mph-everywhere brigade or else is doing 10-20mph over the posted speed limit, and on a bike you're overtaking a lot. Tailgating should therefore be less common in the country than in town. The 40-everywhere people will be being overtaken by most other cars, and are the same sort of hazard as cyclists. The only vehicles going slowly all the time will be agricultural vehicles, old people, trucks and buses. If anyone is wildly exceeding 10-20mph over the limit in a car in the country, and is too close to the back of you, then, unless you're out for your blast on roads you know well and are making progress or whatever you want to call it, you should assume there's something wrong with the driver, and take steps to ensure your safety. Maybe indicate and pull over to stop and let them pass.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 11:42 - 14 Aug 2016    Post subject: Re: my first "accident" Reply with quote

FredTheHorse wrote:

Out of interest, what should be done on roads where there is only one lane (per side of the road)? I do mostly country riding and I can't count how many times I have had cars right on my rear wheel, desperate to overtake, while I do *slightly* over the speed limit.

Where do you draw the line between taking the dominant road position and letting cars overtake?


On single track roads, allow overtaking. It's really annoying when some self-riteous arsehole appoints themselves Lord High Protector of Her Majesties Speed Limits decides they are riding/driving fast enough and nobody else should be going faster.

If someone seems to want past, find a safe place to indicate left and pull across/in to let them.

This may mean stopping in a laybye, road end or similar or it may simply mean pulling across to the left at a wider point in the road. On roads with passing places, indicate left and pull into the next one on your left when you notice someone coming up behind you. They a going faster than you are, let them.

Worst instance of single track road hogging I experienced was on the road from Strontian to Glenelg where a mate and I were deliberately blocked by a bitch in a BMW X3 doing 30mph for a good 30-40 miles. I could tell she was doing it deliberately because when I put my epically illegal 180W full beam projector lights on after a bit (assuming she hadn't seen us behind her) she dipped her rear view mirror.

I landed up passing her on the grass verge (I was on a supermoto) then forcing her to stop by stopping in the middle of the road on a bridge so my mate could get past. Missed our ferry because of her.
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I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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