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ZZR brake torque arm bolts stuck

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Wonko The Sane
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PostPosted: 09:58 - 20 Aug 2016    Post subject: ZZR brake torque arm bolts stuck Reply with quote

Mornin'

Need to adjust my chain but every time I go to do so I can never get the brake torque arm bolts to slacken

They're nylock nuts and no matter what I try I always have this problem, I don't over tighten them either.

Unfortunately the exhaust is in the way of getting a socket set on them

any ideas?
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 11:24 - 20 Aug 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

You could try taking the exhaust off.

If it's got nylock nuts on it, why are you tighteing the bnuts to the extent that there is no movement on the torque arm, preventing the wheel from moving?
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Wonko The Sane
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PostPosted: 17:02 - 20 Aug 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

there's a gasket where the two parts of exhaust slip inside each other, I'd need a new one every time I adjusted my chain if I took the exhaust off.

Nobby, while I am guessing how tight to have them, I'm only hand tightening, I'm not throwing my entire bodyweight behind it, the whole point of the brake torque arm is so that under braking the wheel doesn't move forward, no?
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 17:09 - 20 Aug 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wonko The Sane wrote:

Nobby, while I am guessing how tight to have them, I'm only hand tightening, I'm not throwing my entire bodyweight behind it, the whole point of the brake torque arm is so that under braking the wheel doesn't move forward, no?


The torque arm is there to stop the calliper from spinning round with the wheel when you apply the brake, not to stop the wheel from moving forward...
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CaNsA
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PostPosted: 17:25 - 20 Aug 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

If it's a similar setup to the zxr400... I've never had to loosen anything apart from the axle nut and the chain adjuster block bolt thingies.

Caliper stay bar was never touched, only when removing the wheel.
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Wonko The Sane
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PostPosted: 17:26 - 20 Aug 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

so provided I've got the bolts on it doesn't need to be fully tightened up?
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 17:40 - 20 Aug 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Socket wrote:
Wonko The Sane wrote:
so provided I've got the bolts on it doesn't need to be fully tightened up?

Are you thick?


I'm sorry about 'tard. We really shouldn't let him out on his own.
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chris-red
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PostPosted: 18:24 - 20 Aug 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Socket wrote:
Wonko The Sane wrote:
so provided I've got the bolts on it doesn't need to be fully tightened up?

Are you thick?


You couldn't remove a fucking spark plug you cretin.
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Commuter_Tim
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PostPosted: 19:22 - 20 Aug 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

chris-red wrote:
Socket wrote:

Are you thick?


You couldn't remove a fucking spark plug you cretin.


*Awaits delightfully witty retort about how he removed 10 spark plugs at once whilst simultaneously fingering his princess and doing your ma*

Pass the popcorn
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Last edited by Commuter_Tim on 22:01 - 20 Aug 2016; edited 1 time in total
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Raffles
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PostPosted: 21:52 - 20 Aug 2016    Post subject: Re: ZZR brake torque arm bolts stuck Reply with quote

Wonko The Sane wrote:
Unfortunately the exhaust is in the way of getting a socket set on them

Why you no use a spanner?
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Wonko The Sane
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PostPosted: 08:47 - 21 Aug 2016    Post subject: Re: ZZR brake torque arm bolts stuck Reply with quote

Raffles wrote:

Why you no use a spanner?


I've got a ring spanner on there but it's starting to slip and I can't get the nut to turn.

putting a socket on would allow me to get a longer handle on to turn it first go instead of jerking against it a few times and risk rounding the nut.

I'd like to think I'm not mechanically inept (I changed the shock absorber with no issues and also managed to change a front socket on a varadero without resorting to welding) it's just if something doesn't go to plan and I can see a risk of putting the bike off the road I loose confidence as the bike is transport for getting to work.


To ignore Body-socket and re-ask the question;

The brake torque arm on the bike has nuts that are too tight for me to slacken (as required for adjusting the chain tension according to the Haynes manual) They are this tight from the bike being in the garage having had work done.

I've always nipped them up tight without putting my entire bodyweight behind them but being firm as I assumed this to be the correct tightness.

If I slacken them off again straight away I can do so, if I leave it a month they're too tight to un-do by hand.

Nobby has implied they don't need to be this tight, should they only be pinch tight?
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 09:37 - 21 Aug 2016    Post subject: Re: ZZR brake torque arm bolts stuck Reply with quote

Wonko The Sane wrote:


Nobby has implied they don't need to be this tight, should they only be pinch tight?


There should only be a interference fit. i.e. The bolt should be tight enough for you to feel friction whe moving the torque bar up and down,but not enough to actually stop it moving.

Obviously, you will have difficulty testing it as it's bolted at both ends but you should get the idea.
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Hong Kong Phooey
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PostPosted: 10:03 - 21 Aug 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/ratchet-spanners/4571916/
Sometimes you need the right tool for the job. Cheaper versions are available.
6 sides means it's less likely to round off.
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Wonko The Sane
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PostPosted: 14:13 - 21 Aug 2016    Post subject: Re: ZZR brake torque arm bolts stuck Reply with quote

Nobby the Bastard wrote:
Wonko The Sane wrote:


Nobby has implied they don't need to be this tight, should they only be pinch tight?


There should only be a interference fit. i.e. The bolt should be tight enough for you to feel friction whe moving the torque bar up and down,but not enough to actually stop it moving.

Obviously, you will have difficulty testing it as it's bolted at both ends but you should get the idea.


I think I understand, pinch tight but not "that'll stay" tight

I'm going to nip by the garage near work and get them to slacken the nuts off with a long handled spanner (done this before) and then nip them tight so I can adjust.

I'm going to get some new nuts ordered so that the slight rounding that's happened over the bike's 16 year life isn't going to cause me issues in the future.
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 14:19 - 21 Aug 2016    Post subject: Re: ZZR brake torque arm bolts stuck Reply with quote

Wonko The Sane wrote:

I'm going to get some new nuts ordered so that the slight rounding that's happened over the bike's 16 year life isn't going to cause me issues in the future.


Make sure that they are nylock ones.
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Wonko The Sane
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PostPosted: 14:50 - 21 Aug 2016    Post subject: Re: ZZR brake torque arm bolts stuck Reply with quote

Nobby the Bastard wrote:
Wonko The Sane wrote:

I'm going to get some new nuts ordered so that the slight rounding that's happened over the bike's 16 year life isn't going to cause me issues in the future.


Make sure that they are nylock ones.


yes, like for like.
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Pete.
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PostPosted: 15:57 - 21 Aug 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

With nylocs you can just pull it up so it doesn't rattle and as long as the end of the bolt is poking out of the nut the nylon insert will stop it coming un-done.
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dydey90
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PostPosted: 20:47 - 21 Aug 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hong Kong Phooey wrote:
https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/ratchet-spanners/4571916/
Sometimes you need the right tool for the job. Cheaper versions are available.
6 sides means it's less likely to round off.


£42 for one spanner?!

I just got a full set of Halfrauds Advanced for £40. Although they're just normal rings, not a perfect hexagon.

...And I'm having to take back the 19mm tomorrow because it broke the second time I used it.
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mentalboy
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PostPosted: 00:28 - 22 Aug 2016    Post subject: Re: ZZR brake torque arm bolts stuck Reply with quote

Wonko The Sane wrote:


I'm going to get some new nuts ordered so that the slight rounding that's happened over the bike's 16 year life isn't going to cause me issues in the future.


I presume the 600 has a similar setup to the 1100. IIRC the Zed's torque arm nut (at the caliper end) had a specified torque of 12lb/ft - that's diddly squat in grunt terms - and was restrained from falling off by a split pin (which, again IIRC, was there purely to stop the nut from rattling loose, it didn't even sit snug against the nut), nylocs weren't required.
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Wonko The Sane
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PostPosted: 09:56 - 22 Aug 2016    Post subject: Re: ZZR brake torque arm bolts stuck Reply with quote

mentalboy wrote:
Wonko The Sane wrote:


I'm going to get some new nuts ordered so that the slight rounding that's happened over the bike's 16 year life isn't going to cause me issues in the future.


I presume the 600 has a similar setup to the 1100. IIRC the Zed's torque arm nut (at the caliper end) had a specified torque of 12lb/ft - that's diddly squat in grunt terms - and was restrained from falling off by a split pin (which, again IIRC, was there purely to stop the nut from rattling loose, it didn't even sit snug against the nut), nylocs weren't required.


No, the 1100 is quite different, no split pins and the 600 has normal type chain tugs, not the rotating thingy the 1100 has.
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Raffles
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PostPosted: 20:57 - 23 Aug 2016    Post subject: Re: ZZR brake torque arm bolts stuck Reply with quote

Nobby the Bastard wrote:
There should only be a interference fit. i.e. The bolt should be tight enough for you to feel friction whe moving the torque bar up and down,but not enough to actually stop it moving.

Is that the meaning of the term, 'interference fit'? I always thought that it meant something else.
Learning all the time.
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Pete.
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PostPosted: 21:37 - 23 Aug 2016    Post subject: Re: ZZR brake torque arm bolts stuck Reply with quote

Raffles wrote:
Nobby the Bastard wrote:
There should only be a interference fit. i.e. The bolt should be tight enough for you to feel friction whe moving the torque bar up and down,but not enough to actually stop it moving.

Is that the meaning of the term, 'interference fit'? I always thought that it meant something else.
Learning all the time.


Probably not but there are many variations of 'interference' fit, in engineering terms you could probably call the fit as described by Nobby as 'locational clearance' but 'interference' is probably the easiest term to use as a descriptor for setting the torque arm bolt - it paints a pretty good image in your mind.
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