Kawasaki GPZ500S Advice

[MahatmaAndhi]

Hi guys,

So I sold my Zontes. I have my license. I'm ready for the world of big(ger) bikes.
One which is within my meagre budget is a Kawasaki GPZ500S. It looks in fairly good nick for it's age. And it's about 50 miles away from me.
I called the owner and got the number plate for insurance and HPI. Haven't done the HPI yet, but the insurance is pretty good (£75ish TPf&f, £115 fully comp). I'd like to go down and view it.

Being a novice to engines and general parts of a bike, I'm not the most suited to go and view, but I don't have any mates/family members that know anything either, so I'm going solo.

Can anyone give me some advice on what to look for please? I've checked and read about fork seals, loose or tight chain which is very universal. Is there anything specific for this model I should keep an eye out for?

Also, is it worth getting fully comp insurance for a bike worth £650? The excess is £350 and if I crashed then I expect it would be next to worthless.

Cheers.

[Kickstart]

Hi

Insurance wise possibly not directly worth it, but if you are involved in a claim (ie, one that you have no choice about) it can make life easier. For only £40 it is probably worth it.

As to the bike:-

Play in the rear suspension linkages. Very common on the GPZ500.
Brakes seize up easily, especially as both front and (on the later ones) the rear calipers are sliding items.
Finish can be poor on the GPZ. They were built as a cheap bike. More an issue to bargain them down on.
Water in the petrol tank.
Wear in the ignition switch (so the key comes out when the ignition is on).
On early ones the magnets fall off the flywheel (around 20k normally)
Early ones have 16" wheels which limit tyres a bit more

All the best

Katy
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[MahatmaAndhi]

Hi Katy,

Thanks for your reply. If it helps, the bike is a 2000 Y-plate, so I think some of the issues which you mentioned may have been ironed out by this point.

For a clod like me, could you briefly run me through how to check for the play in the rear suspension linkage please? Also, how do you check for water in the petrol tank?
Again, I'm very new to this. With my car, I drive it and let the garage do the rest.

Thanks!

[Azoth]

Choose a different bike?

I'm not a fan of the EX500-based bikes, at all. They can be very difficult to service. If you can keep it on the road, you've spent far more than the value of the bike on garage bills in the last year, or else you've become quite good at mechanical work.

I'm not going to go into all the problems with the design of the GPZ500S, but bear in mind that even though it's a lovely bike when running and working properly, it has a lot of serviceable parts that need replacement as they degrade. Getting to those parts, i.e. reaching them, is difficult because you need to remove a lot of stuff first. For example, rocker cover gasket. Remove tank, lines from fuel tap, lines to tank, manifold, air filter, etc. after dumping all the fuel and coolant. Then, when you have them off and , you have to replace not just that gasket but all the O-ring washers going to the cooling system, fill up and test cooling system, reattach everything and so on. Not too bad? Well, how about when at every step of the way, you're doing it on a 15 year old bike on which all the relevant nuts and screws have permanently seized up because of rust?

That bike will need constant attention in addition to normal wearable things like chains, sprockets, tyres and oil, because it simply wasn't designed to have lasted to 2016 in the first place. The only reason it exists is because we have good mechanics here and people look after their bikes carefully. Be very careful and think again before making it your weapon of choice. It's too long in the tooth, and should be considered a project bike, not a riding bike. Just my opinion.
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Safety in numbers

[MahatmaAndhi]

Woah. I appreciate your advice, but it is in stark contrast to everything else which I've read so far. That's not implying that you're wrong, by any means. But now you've planted doubt in my mind I'm curious as to what others have to say too.

[Teflon-Mike]

[Kickstart]

[Azoth]

Katy and Tef are crackerjack mechanics, and I'm not. So I'm not going to second-guess either of them, and I defer to their greater experience. However, just so you know, the time is right, now, for those bikes to be on at least their second set of throttle and clutch cables. Just replace them anyway, if you buy it. In addition, that old GPZ you're considering probably has some clutch slippage by now, and needs new springs/plates. Have they been replaced? If not, you will have to do them. You will want to do the forks at some point. There's a special technique for those as well, as they don't have the screw-on fork caps but a tricky wire clip holding them in place (bad design).

I don't want to be all negative, and if the truth be told, it's a really fun bike to ride. However, if you want to buy it you've got to keep it running. Changing chain and sprockets and fork seals is normal maintenance, but swapping that rocker cover gasket, or doing the valve clearances (necessary at the intervals specified by Haynes but probably not done), is a steeper learning curve simply because of the design decisions involved in coming up with this bike. The first one or two owners will have had it serviced. But it's been 15 years. I doubt it will have been serviced by Kawasaki post-30000 miles at all, so expect the worst. If the bolts and screws have rusted into various interesting semi-precious gemstone crystals, perhaps that's testimony to the reliability of the bike back then, but not now and for forever. At some point they have to come off.
____________________
Safety in numbers

[Kickstart]

[MahatmaAndhi]

Well... shit!

If I was summarising all I've read so far, it would be something like: Good bike when it works, but tricky to fix when it doesn't.
Given my complete lack of understanding of engines and components, I'm a bit weary as to whether it's a novice's ideal bike.

This specific bike has done 27,000 and has no service history. The info is:

[Azoth]

OK, but you won't be a novice forever. Myself, Kickstart, Teflon-Mike, probably Rogerborg and many others would be willing to offer advice when you're doing jobs on the bike. Just 2 things to bear in mind when buying this bike (neither was really a problem for me, but it still gave me grey hairs): 1) expect to be working on the bike (i.e. develop a taste for work); 2) have at least £500 spare cash lying around to buy replacement parts without thinking twice (not including regular stuff like tyres, chains, bearings, etc.)
____________________
Safety in numbers

[Kickstart]

[MahatmaAndhi]

What about Yamaha Diversions 600cc? They seem to come up quite a bit and seem to be comparable to the GPZ500S, although the opinion is often divided on which is better handling, speed etc.
I don't really care about hitting 120MPH over 110MPH. I won't go be going at those kind of speeds.
Noone's mentioned which is easier to maintain though, which is something I need to be factoring in.

[Rogerborg]

Any bike you buy at that sort of age and price bracket is going to be a gamble. Finding one that doesn't obviously need anything done to it will be a bonus. I mean, you could buy a "bulletproof" oil cooled Bandit 600, but if it needs tyres, chain and sprockets done then you're down another £300 right off the bat. Then it could snap its CCT on the ride home.

Valve clearances? At that value? Wouldn't bother, unless racebike. The valves will burn out, or they won't. Can you remember the last time you heard from anyone who'd actually burned out a valve due to not adjusting clearances?

How good a bike are you expecting for £650?
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GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike

[MahatmaAndhi]

I know, I know. The budget is shit. But it's what I got.
When my job moves offices, I'm going to be needing to commute from the top end of Peterborough to Oundle which is about 15miles each way on 70 and 60mph roads.

I'm not looking at bikes which I want, rather than bikes which I can afford. So they're not even the style of bike which I would prefer.

I don't mind having a crack at fixing things myself with a Haynes manual and the internet, but it's going to be way out of my league then I'm a bit worried.

Another bike cropped up on my radar. It's relatively local, in my budget and another Kawasaki. Is this going to be the same story as the GPZ?

https://www.gumtree.com/p/kawasaki-motorbikes/kawasaki-zzr-600/1182443518

[Rogerborg]

[MahatmaAndhi]

To be fair, I was set on going to see it. The reasons not to were invented for me.
The insurance on it is good. Sub £100 for Third Party F&T.

[Azoth]

30 miles a day counts as heavy use, for any bike. So, the bike you use for 30 miles a day must be well-maintained and in good order. The way most people achieve reliable commuting by bike is by buying a newer bike than that, which obviously costs more money.

I think you have two options. First is to buy a cheap bike, as you're considering right now, ride it a lot and fix it up scrupulously as soon as you discover any issue, before you actually need it for commuting in January. The advantage would be gaining some road experience, and learning what actually needs doing, how and when, on that particular bike.
Second is to refrain from buying a bike right now, and just save up until January, when your budget is sufficient to buy a newer bike. I would say, at least £1500 for the initial purchase price, not including your maintenance and spares fund. The advantage would be buying a better bike, and one that will need less attention to keep it on the road under heavy use.

EDIT: Looks like you bought the ZZR, since the advert has gone. It could be a good or bad example, but if it was you that bought it, my personal opinion is you made a wise decision to avoid catching the falling knife (GPZ).
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Safety in numbers

[Kickstart]

Hi

I had a Divvy for a while. I found it very boring to ride and with a few quirks. They also have a quick seize front caliper. On older ones a vacuum fuel pump that is a pain (can flatten the battery before pumping enough fuel through to start the engine). Mine seized the rear shock (as in it suddenly went absolutely solid). Clutch thrust bearings can fail if the wrong lube is used (Yamaha list moly grease - the Haynes says to use oil.....). Finish is better than the GPZ and the 600 Bandit.

ZZR600 is better made than the GPZ, but harder to work on for many things. Good on fuel. But brakes that really like to seize (there is a common fix retrofitting Honda calipers - but you need some spacers to do the job properly).

All the best

Katy
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[MahatmaAndhi]

Thanks for the replies. I really do appreciate it, even if it wasn't what I wanted to hear.

I've decided to not go and see this bike. I'm definitely the kind of person to chuck money at the first thing which I can afford, but my wife is very wisely telling me to hold off for a while.

I'm going to keep browsing the usual haunts and ask people locally to keep an eye out for on-the-side-of-the-road sales. No doubt I'll be back soon with more questions.

Thanks again.

Edit:

[Teflon-Mike]

£650? - Lets be a bit realistic here; at that sort of money, you aint gonna be expecting a minter; it's a dog-end pre-rat, you expect the worst whilst hoping for the best of....

Follow on from previous comments; I wouldn't go out my way to find one; but if that was my budget, if it ran, had an MOT & looked half way like it deserved it... I'd go look.....

I'f I could ride it round the block, and it didn't make too many nasty noises, I'd waggle & haggle and try and get it for closer to £500.. and probably take the chance...

You just don't get much with an MOT for that sort of money..... and WHEN it goes wrong.... it's not an IF, it's definitely a 'when' merely a question of how long from now 'till when..... I wouldn't be planning on burrowing too deep to fix shit..... anything more than a new set of spark plugs or a simple C&S kit, and the thing would be wending it's way skip-wise.....

It would probably not 'quite' make it that far in my tender care... it would sort of stall a few feet from the back-door, & join the other 'projects-in-waiting' for Snowie to moan at me "WHY haven't you weighed that thing in!?" And make me stammer things like "Well, IF I can pick up an MOT Failed ER5" or "Well, I have an idea bout the back-suspension" or something... but that's me!

Realistically, a bike in that budget is likely to be deemed 'Beyond Ecconomical Repair' for the price of a new pair of tyres and a set of brake pads!

As such, you can fuck-off a lot of nebulous ideas of 'reliability' and model maladies... they just don't matter... it either works or it don't... if it works, you ride it, when it don't, you scrap it and go look for something else....

It's called banger-nomics, and pretty much anything in the sub £1500 bracket is going to be in or approaching that arena, and what you need to do is avoid the bike that has got to the end of it's road, with bangernomicists not putting work or money into the thing, saving it instead for the inevitable replacement....

BUT... beggers and choosers; you want cheap get to work wheels for 15 miles each way, anything with two wheels, an engine that runs and an MOT aught do the job, and you aren't going to find anything that's likely much safer a bet in your budget, even looking at tddlers or scooters.

27k? If it's genuine & the clocks match the rest of the bike; the front end is right for the year & the frame, and not obviously been rebuilt with whatever available spares could be sourced a few times, you MIGHT and it is a might, be lucking in on a reasonably original and well looked after example that hasn't been thrashed to death by restrcted licence newb or miser-miling commuter.... if so, get in quick, 'cos it wont hang around log; if not? well, it's typical commuter fare, and you pays your money and takes your chances.... and with a bit of common weighing it up, likely as far a bet as anything in that budget.

Debating the if's and buts with us, is not helping you really; get a grip on your wallet; take a deep breath, promise NOT to get exited when you hear the engine running, re-calibrate your expectations to your budget, and go look at the damn thing.
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Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?'

[trevor saxe-coburg-gotha]

Fwiw, I paid £750 for a '90s rear drum braked CB500 w/ iirc 22k miles on it. I'm in york, it was in peterborough. It looked well enough on ebay, and the seller didn't seem like a total crook. So...I...took a chance. "Shook" on it via eBay PMs, got me clobber together and caught a train down. It was more or less as good as the photos - but my spidey senses were tingling as I tried to find bearings w/ play, a binding caliper, or tell-tail knocking sounds etc. etc. Like I actually had a clue.

I pogoed the front forks, I looked over the meagre paperwork, I checked chain and sprockets, etc. But I couldn't find a damn thing wrong with it - even though I "knew" there was something. This was in many ways a grand's worth of bike (according to my prior few months of monitoring completed listings etc.) - so why £750. Maybe the guy just suddenly needed the cash. He did look a bit broke.

In the event it got me home fine - but the nearside fork seal had pissed oil down its leg. Good job it wasn't the offside one where the brake disc was.

I contemplated having a go at replacing the seal but chickened out, and got a proper job. Cost me £300. Some tosser had bodged in a incorrectly sized seal which wouldn't come out without blow lamp and mauling.

Since then the bike's been fine - used most days, has 50 odd thou on it. Just done a valve check - no adjustment needed. But it does and always has made slightly strange clicking and knocking noises if not used for a week or so - I think clutch related but can't be sure. Slightly unsettling. But now it's getting short interval oil, and regular use, the bastard'll probably see a 100k *if* I can be arsed.

So, just as I suspected, the £750 bike turned out to be a grand after all. Also, when you get to the "not much over £500 quid bracket" buying gets very tricky. Especially if you're a novice with no fettling know-how, nor extended circle of biking mates who might be able to point you in the direction of more "honest" low-priced machines. Iow your budget might well not be enough.
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"Life is a sexually transmitted disease and the mortality rate is one hundred percent."

Mobylette Type 50 ---> Raleigh Grifter ---> Neval Minsk 125

[angryjonny]

FWIW - mechanics aside, I bought a 500 as my first bike and was told I'd regret it. I did. I was riding a 600 within months. 100cc doesn't sound like a lot engine wise but there's a huge gulf between 500s and 600s when it comes to power.

[trevor saxe-coburg-gotha]

90% of the time I find 55bhp is enough - but then 90% of the time I'm on my favourite roads where 70-80mph is quite a good pace, and carrying a more or less continuous 60mph feels like something of an achievement. I honestly don't mind if 600s are coming by me on the less twisty stretches so long as they're look smaller in the mirrors through the more technical parts.
____________________
"Life is a sexually transmitted disease and the mortality rate is one hundred percent."

Mobylette Type 50 ---> Raleigh Grifter ---> Neval Minsk 125

[MahatmaAndhi]

Well, I went ahead and did it. Not that Kawasaki, but a different one.
An ER5. 2002 plate. MOT until June. 20,000 miles with FSH and MOT docs.
It was from a semi-retired guy who had back surgery and couldn't ride it anymore (or anything). Really nice guy who made me feel assured.
I really do feel happy with this purchase. I hope I continue to.

I know the ER5s aren't particuarly quick or exciting, but I want a commuter and going back up the A1 felt really comfortable at 60 and 70MPH.

https://i.imgur.com/GC7ljZE.jpg

Thank you all for your help and advice. I'm sure I'll be needing it again in the future. [/img]