Fat? Smoke? No NHS for you how long till biker? No NHS 4u?

[Itchy]

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/sep/03/hospitals-to-cut-costs-by-denying-surgery-to-smokers-and-the-obese


^^^ seems flawed. As people with muscles often have high BMI figures even though they're fit and quite lean.


I can also see the goal posts being moved...

Well nobody forced you to stay up all night to eat cheese did they? No NHS for you as it's self inflicted!! (but you still have to pay the taxes for it)

https://i.imgur.com/mJNxZ3u.png

Well nobody forced you to ride on a motorbike did they? No NHS for you (but you still have to pay the taxes for it)[/list]
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Spain 2008France 2007Big one 2009 We all die. The goal isn't to live forever, the goal is to create something that will. In the end, your life will flash before your eyes. Make sure it is worth watching.

[The Artist]

Only the ignorant would support such rules.

This country is going down the shitter...rabble rabble.

[stinkwheel]

Not a bad plan.

Delaying elective surgery to smokers and severely obese people is a good idea. They are much higher anaesthetic risks and at much higher risk of the surgery being unsuccessful. They also said if you stop smoking or lose weight, you come back down the list.

You can argue about their measure of what constitutes obesity though.

As a vet, I've often flat refused to do elective surgery on some obese animals until the owner managed to get the weight down past a certain point, despite the fact the owner would be paying for the surgery and any ensuing complications in full.

Two classic examples are:

1) Neutering, where the animals energy requirements drop post surgery, so if they can't feed their obese pet to a reducing weight before the surgery, they will only get even bigger after it.

and

2) Cruciate surgery. I don't give the option of soft tissue repairs to severely overweight dogs with cruciate ruptures because of the high risk of the repair failing. They get a choice of weight loss or a more expensive surgery to realign the bone. I also tell them that with a 10% weight loss, they may not need surgery at all.

So should the NHS be fitting a prosthetic knee joint to someone who is 30 stone? Or risking anaesthetising a heavy smoker to remove a beningn skin mass then have the wound break down due to lack of oxygenation in the tissues? When a 10% reduction in weight or a 6 week period off the fags would massively decrease the risk and increase the chances of success of said surgery with all the cost implications that carries.

Remember there is a difference between elective surgery and emergency. The aren't suggesting if a smoker comes in with a broken arm, or a tumour they won't be operated on. They are saying elective procedures like a bunnion removal or hip replacement should be delayed to give the patient a chance to make lifestyle alterations which will increase the safety and chances of success of the surgery.

You COULD make a paralell with motorcycling. Suppose the bike you were riding was causing/exascerbating a chronic condition. Say you had severe haemarrhoids. Would it be unreasonable to ask you to stop riding for a month before and after surgery for them?

So that's how I read it. Of course the Guardian has chosen to put a cost-cutting spin on it. Seems to me it's a recipe for higher success rates and lower risk to patients, the cost savings happen by themselves.
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I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[Tracey Suntan-King]

Doh, Stinkwheel said what I was going to say, only much more eloquently.

The Guardian have put their usual Owen Jones-type whinge/spin on it.

No one is saying fatties and wheezers won't get stitched back together in an emergency.
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Whether you think you can, or think you can't, you're probably right

[ZX-7R]

Guess its aimed at obese people looking for free gastric bands and smokers needing new lungs rather than genuine surgery needs through illness/accident.

Media always goes for the sensationalist headlines.
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Current Bike - 2000 ZX-7R

[Alpineandy]

First I should point out that I do smoke and it's a disgusting habit that is high on my personal list of things to change in my life, However Smokers have funded the NHS for many years through tax on cigarettes, whilst being a relatively minor cost for it. I guess the vast reduction of the number of smokers, driven by the 'please think of the children' brigade is beginning to take it's toll.
I'm pretty certain that the court of human rights may have some input into denying treatment for people that have paid into the system.

As for being obese, the BMI index is one of the worst systems possible. It allows nothing for body shape and targets everyone to be a waif of marathon runner proportions. If this system were ever to come into effect there'd be queues of healthy looking people denied medical treatments and the courts would soon rule that the BMI Index is not fit for purpose.
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The above comment isn't necessarily the truth and anyone that says it is, is only correct if it's the truth or they're bigger than me.

[G]

AS per stinkwheel... riding a motorcycle at least doesn't make many operations themselves be more likely to have issues.

[grr666]

Why waste public money on lost causes? I had a pal aged 34 in for a heart valve replacement. He was born with the condition.
When visiting him at the BRI heart ward I passed numerous patients outside some still attached to drips puffing away
like chimneys. I suspect if they were paying for their ultra expensive treatments themselves they may take doctors advice
more seriously. As for fatties, the bulk of my family is obese. I've heard every excuse going from them all as to how it's
'not their fault', 'hardly eat anything', 'we're a big family' blah blah blah. I'm 43 and 12 stone, size 32 waist.
How come I'm not a Jabba then? I have the same genes, the difference is I don't ram food down my pie hole like it's
the last supper, don't eat rubbish, and keep portion size sensible. Plus I get up and move around occasionally.
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Currently enjoying products from Ford, Mazda and Yamaha
Ste wrote: Avatars are fine, it's signatures that need turning off.

[stinkwheel]

[G]

[grr666]

[ZX-7R]

[Ste]

With junior doctors frequently going on strike then it's inevitable that hospitals won't be able to treat as many people so fixing fatty boom boom with tar lungs who has punished their liver for several decades might not be the most efficient use of limited resources.

At the same time, there shouldn't be fast food places, coffee shops, Greggs and other places selling junk food in NHS hospitals.

[linuxyeti]

I'm in agreement with Stinkwheel & grr666 smokers & the obese, and the resulting conditions are costing the NHS a fortune, so yeah, get them to stop smoking, get them to lose weight, it will help them in the longer run anyhow. I suppose it's a bit like the argument, should an alcoholic/heavy drinker be given a donated liver, especially if that liver could be transplanted into someone relatively more healthy who needs a liver transplant for other reasons.
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[Fin]

[MCN]

THIS IS NOT NEWS.

THIS IS TYPICAL MAL-INFORMED, MISINTERPRETED, SENSATIONALISED BUMBCUM FROM A TABLOIDIST.

IGNORE.

But lose weight too.
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Disclaimer: The comments above may be predicted text and not necessarily the opinion of MCN.

[grr666]

[panrider_uk]

[Pjay]

Smokers pay insane amounts of tax, they should be afforded the very best in medical cover.

20 a day is over £200 a month in tax alone. Why are they taxed so heavily if not to cover the NHS costs of their treatments?

[grr666]

To bolster the endless sea of available benefits paid to all and sundry.
Funny how the alleged poorest smoke the most...
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Currently enjoying products from Ford, Mazda and Yamaha
Ste wrote: Avatars are fine, it's signatures that need turning off.

[Pjay]

[Rogerborg]

[Sload]

High tax contributions on top of earnings taxed and reduced pension pay outs.
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Honda Varadero >> Triumph Speed Four >> Honda CBR1100xx

[ScaredyCat]

Just get rid of ambulances. Why are we paying for injured or sick people to be transported and treated at all. If we let nature take its course we could just reduce everyone's tax. If you get sick, tough shit. A few bin lorries is all you'd need to collect the bodies.

Sounds like an ideal world...
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Honda CBF125 ➝ NC700X
Honda CBF125 ↳ Speed Triple

[Jewlio Rides Again LLB]

No transplants to alcoholics, smackheads or smokers if it's caused by their habits.

Job jobbed. Measuring obesity by the flawed BMI system is stupid.
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