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HJC IS-17 5* sharp rated, RPHA 11 only 3* rated?

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bandit1990
Renault 5 Driver



Joined: 11 Aug 2016
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PostPosted: 13:30 - 20 Sep 2016    Post subject: HJC IS-17 5* sharp rated, RPHA 11 only 3* rated? Reply with quote
Had a HJC IS-17 for a few years now and it's a great helmet. One of the reasons i got it was because it was 5* sharp rated.

For those of you who don't know the sharp rating is based on multiple safety tests done on a helmet bought from a shop floor https://sharp.direct.gov.uk/

I just bought an Iron man IS-17, they also have a Punisher and Captain America helmet (The HJC CL-17) and noticed they are bringing out a spiderman and venom helmet soon.

The helmet is a HJC RPHA-11, HJC's flagship helmet (from what i can see) But the Helmet is only 3* Sharp rated and the side protection is rated as poor, the worst rating.

How is it a £300 helmet has a lower safety rating then a £150 helmet, the sharp test is hard to argue against if you look at how it's done.

Thoughts?
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ScaredyCat
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Joined: 19 May 2012
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PostPosted: 13:45 - 20 Sep 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote
bandit1990 wrote:

How is it a £300 helmet has a lower safety rating then a £150 helmet, the sharp test is hard to argue against if you look at how it's done.


Because you can build a helmet to pass the specific tests Sharp do. It doesn't make it a better, safer helmet.
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tom_e
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Joined: 27 Feb 2016
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PostPosted: 13:49 - 20 Sep 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote
My Schuberth C3 Pro is one of the most expensive non race rep helmets on the planet but still is only 3* Sharp rated. As said you can build a helmet to score well in a lab test or you can just build a decent helmet.
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bandit1990
Renault 5 Driver



Joined: 11 Aug 2016
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PostPosted: 13:53 - 20 Sep 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote
ScaredyCat wrote:
Because you can build a helmet to pass the specific tests Sharp do. It doesn't make it a better, safer helmet.


The tests cover every impact area imaginable, they run 32 tests on all sizes of that helmet at higher speeds with more impact areas.

If anything people build helmets to pass the Ece / Dot tests.

Money never insures quality.
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Fizzoid
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Joined: 06 Sep 2016
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PostPosted: 13:55 - 20 Sep 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote
Playing devils advocate, I suppose you can also charge more for a 'premium' helmet, which may have more cool features, but not be as safe
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Rogerborg
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Joined: 26 Oct 2010
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PostPosted: 13:57 - 20 Sep 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote
ScaredyCat wrote:
High end helmets that perform badly in side impacts are actually better because weasels are frothing in my marmalade guano tulip.

Be advised that this is how you sound.
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tom_e
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PostPosted: 14:11 - 20 Sep 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote
Fizzoid wrote:
Playing devils advocate, I suppose you can also charge more for a 'premium' helmet, which may have more cool features, but not be as safe


That's true of most bike kit to be fair, once you get past a certain price point protection is going to be much of a muchness and you're then paying for added features/more comfort/a fancy label.
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ScaredyCat
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PostPosted: 14:12 - 20 Sep 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote
Rogerborg wrote:
ScaredyCat wrote:
High end helmets that perform badly in side impacts are actually better because weasels are frothing in my marmalade guano tulip.

Be advised that this is how you sound.


You may have deliverately, incorrectly interpreted my words.
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bandit1990
Renault 5 Driver



Joined: 11 Aug 2016
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PostPosted: 14:15 - 20 Sep 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote
tom_e wrote:

That's true of most bike kit to be fair, once you get past a certain price point protection is going to be much of a muchness and you're then paying for added features/more comfort/a fancy label.


I completely agree, companies like Dainese and Alpinestars expect you to take what they say as gospel when actually some of their products are lower quality than budget products from say RST for example
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CaNsA
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PostPosted: 14:28 - 20 Sep 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote
bandit1990 wrote:
The tests cover every impact area imaginable

I can imagine many other impact areas to test.

For example, they don't test the chin guard.

They only test:-
Above the ear on both left and right side.
Crown
Rear
And forehead.
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bandit1990
Renault 5 Driver



Joined: 11 Aug 2016
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PostPosted: 14:36 - 20 Sep 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote
CaNsA wrote:
they don't test the chin guard.

They only test:-
Above the ear on both left and right side.
Crown
Rear
And forehead.


True they should really do a test on the chin guard , The chin guard is probably going to be the weak point when it comes to structural integrity on a helmet.

They provide data for if the visor stays on the helmet during impact and how each area does with the impact testing which is useful
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c_dug
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PostPosted: 14:42 - 20 Sep 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote
Isn't one of the major flaws in SHARP testing that they test for multiple impacts, which requires a more rigid construction? This in turn passes more of the energy in a crash through to your head as it is not being absorbed by the shell.
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bandit1990
Renault 5 Driver



Joined: 11 Aug 2016
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PostPosted: 15:01 - 20 Sep 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote
c_dug wrote:
Isn't one of the major flaws in SHARP testing that they test for multiple impacts, which requires a more rigid construction? This in turn passes more of the energy in a crash through to your head as it is not being absorbed by the shell.


Not sure. but the machinery used for Dot, ECE and Sharp testing looks the same to be honest. It looks like the only difference is which areas are tested at what speeds and what kind of surfaces the helmets hit ( Flat, Blunt, Sharp )

They are all tested by government agencies and so are unbiased as it makes no differecnce to them which manufacturer you go with
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c_dug
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PostPosted: 15:03 - 20 Sep 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote
It was rogerborg who posted the article I got my info from, maybe he'll be kind enough to post the link again. Made for interesting reading.
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bandit1990
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PostPosted: 15:08 - 20 Sep 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote
c_dug wrote:
It was rogerborg who posted the article I got my info from, maybe he'll be kind enough to post the link again. Made for interesting reading.


The rig is more rigid , but sharp say this is so the helmets dont fly off in different directions on impact so you get more accurate results and more realistic data. It's done to eliminate any variables in testing.
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ScaredyCat
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PostPosted: 15:48 - 20 Sep 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote
c_dug wrote:
It was rogerborg who posted the article I got my info from, maybe he'll be kind enough to post the link again. Made for interesting reading.


Is that the one where Sharp couldn't read and weighted results based on the wrong info?

Quote:
SHARP’s website says that side impacts account for 53% of the impacts that occur, based on the report’s findings of 26.3% to the left and 26.9% to the right = 53%, when in fact analyses in the report state side impacts account for 23.1% of impacts whereas the front of the helmet accounts for 64.8% and confirmed by Dr Chinn.


That's a bit old, I'm sure they've updated since then... I'm sure they have...

Sharp ratings : If it's the difference between cabbage and death, which do you want?
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Kickstart
The Oracle



Joined: 04 Feb 2002
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PostPosted: 16:22 - 20 Sep 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote
bandit1990 wrote:

True they should really do a test on the chin guard , The chin guard is probably going to be the weak point when it comes to structural integrity on a helmet.


Maybe, but a very rigid chin guard isn't doing to absorb any of the impact force, rather just pass it on. Probably onto the rider neck

All the best

Katy
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Rogerborg
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Joined: 26 Oct 2010
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PostPosted: 16:25 - 20 Sep 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote
ScaredyCat wrote:
Sharp ratings : If it's the difference between cabbage and death, which do you want?

Death, I'm worth more, and nobody wants to get Schumachered.

I guess the goal is to have small offs or epic ones and nothing in between.
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