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DAS through the winter

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Louthepoo
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PostPosted: 19:53 - 20 Sep 2016    Post subject: DAS through the winter Reply with quote

Hi, new to the forum and thought I'd kick straight off with a question I was thinking about.

I've been riding a Honda S-Wing for 5 years but now fancy a bigger bike. What I was wondering was what it's like doing a DAS through the winter? Has anyone done it? I've seen the figures and the pass rate is higher in the summer but I don't fancy waiting that long.

Cheers, Lou
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Mishka
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PostPosted: 19:55 - 20 Sep 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did my DAS start of dec then Mod 2 on the 17th dec.

Weather wasnt hugely bad just the normal kinda bit nippy kind no heavy rain just sometimes wet road surfaces, I had no issues but not sure if its raining hard they'll stop the training as it seems daft
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wilbo
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PostPosted: 20:10 - 20 Sep 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did mine in March this year so whilst not quite in Winter, it was generally cold and wet for quite a bit of it. I saw it as a positive as if you are going to have to ride in those conditions at some point, you may as well train in it too.
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GSTEEL32
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PostPosted: 20:19 - 20 Sep 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Winter is the best time for DAS. Any sh!tty conditions will significantly alter your test conditions verses summer. As such, you ride slower, giving you more time to think about what your doing.

Also, if its really chucking it down, with reduced visibility, you will not be expected to "make progress" in the same way as a summer test.

Ironically, as mentioned, I think learning in the winter makes you a better rider in the summer .....

Don't crash though, obviously.
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NJD
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PostPosted: 21:19 - 20 Sep 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Louthepoo wrote:
I've seen the figures and the pass rate is higher in the summer


Source?

To be expected really, I wouldn't consider it at a must and if you do it in winter you'll fail it's just that "summer" or the warmer months is when everyone wants a shot at it and why not because out on the bike in sun all day riding is bee's knee's (I've got that horribly wrong). Plus point of doing it in the colder weather is that you'll, hopefully, have less time between tests and training days if failures occur or booking times in general.

Obvious points are; examiner's aren't going to put you out of your depth, on a big bike before your ready or make you ride in conditions that aren't suitable for someone who's not experienced in them. Same with the tests in that they can be called of because weather if needed, if that happens you'll most likely find out when you arrive at training company location or on your way.

Winters not all that different in truth. Sure it gets colder from now until December and then December - February are the crap months and colder a little while longer and then eventually warm for five minutes until cycle begins again but among all that Snow is about the only added risk that I avoid when possible and only weather I wont ride in.

Anyway all you'll have to do, as a trainee, is turn up and ride and let them worry about cold starting bikes, prepping them, the weather, the routes etc.

Advice I would give is layer up beyond the norm because while my commute might take longer in cold weather it's nothing compared to all day riding. Being out for hours on end during colder days could quickly become not very fun at all.

Base layers (top and bottom), balaclava and thermal inner gloves would be my additional recommend items and do not turn up without. Helmet with a pinlock (I'd call that an all year round thing rather than just winter but will become worse within 000.1 seconds in winter) would also be advisable.

Staying warm is key. Hot drinks and good nights sleep / plenty of warm food so you can concentrate also. Smooth in your application on all of the controls.

Don't overthink it, just enjoy it. Take the weather as it comes.
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Mark_F
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PostPosted: 21:21 - 20 Sep 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did mine over winter (mod 1 December 2012 and mod 2 January 2013) and there were no significant problems for me (though be aware that tests may be rescheduled due to ice and such).
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 21:29 - 20 Sep 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

30th March 2010, Scotch weather.

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/_URv-xJYdM20/S7JO_iBoZ-I/AAAAAAAABeQ/aHseFRLqie8/s1600/DSCN1218.JPG

I passed my mod 2 in Glasgow that day.

Any more questions?
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Louthepoo
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PostPosted: 21:34 - 20 Sep 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

NJD I can't add the link but if you type into Google 'motorcycle riding test data by test centre' its the top answer. It's data from gov.uk. It can be categorised into age, time of year etc
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Val
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PostPosted: 21:59 - 20 Sep 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

GSTEEL32 wrote:
Ironically, as mentioned, I think learning in the winter makes you a better rider in the summer .....


Rogerborg wrote:


About 30 years ago I read some research (it was for some European country with proper winter) that drivers doing their license during winter times get better drivers and have lower accidents rates. Due to the fact that the first time you get introduced to the car controls happens in a harsh conditions, these first lessons got memorised in your muscle memory as car driving motoring skills. Summer drivers got the wrong patterns memorised (like better summer tarmac traction) hence more crashes.

Same reasons why you have so many excellent rally drivers coming from Finland.

Must be true for bikes too. Means go for it you will be better rider Thumbs Up
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tom_e
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PostPosted: 07:26 - 21 Sep 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

To be fair if this winter is like last year then you've got until late January before it actually gets cold enough to cause any issues.
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Derivative
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PostPosted: 08:24 - 21 Sep 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wlobal garming, winter is summer now.

The bonus of doing it near winter is that you'll likely be able to pick up bargain bikes. I've always found prices lower at the end of "the season".
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Wonko The Sane
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PostPosted: 11:30 - 21 Sep 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

NJD wrote:


Winters not all that different in truth. Sure it gets colder from now until December and then December - February are the crap months and colder a little while longer and then eventually warm for five minutes until cycle begins again but among all that Snow is about the only added risk that I avoid when possible and only weather I wont ride in.


in winter, a rainy day is often slightly warmer than the clear day that preceded it (might not apply in Scotland)

or that's how it feels after 20 years of cycling and motorbiking as transport.

As has been said, layers are key, last winter I knicked my wife's thermal tights to wear under my gear which helped keep me warm as being cold distracts you on the bike which can be bad. You're looking for layers that are warm but not bulky - hiking and cycling clothing is a good starting point as they're after the same thing.

in terms of riding in winter, just steady away - your instructor and examiner will not take you out if they think the risk is too great and it's their call to make. Worst case scenario is you take some time off work or whatever to find that the morning's training or test has been cancelled due to weather conditions.
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Alpineandy
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PostPosted: 11:44 - 21 Sep 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
https://3.bp.blogspot.com/_URv-xJYdM20/S7JO_iBoZ-I/AAAAAAAABeQ/aHseFRLqie8/s1600/DSCN1218.JPG

Looks more like may/june in Scotland to me Laughing
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Teflon-Mike
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PostPosted: 12:58 - 21 Sep 2016    Post subject: Re: DAS through the winter Reply with quote

Louthepoo wrote:
Hi, new to the forum and thought I'd kick straight off with a question I was thinking about.

Yup, look like it; and a bit meedlin in the middle random.

Biking is ever becoming more a leisure pursuit and consequently seasonal. Hence more people opt to do it in the summer when weather is more conducive.

Do DAS.... there's two bits to that; DAS Training, and DAS Testing.

Training is not compulsory to get a licence. Passing the tests is. Training is offered by bike schools; they give lessons, not licences. Testing is performed by Gov't examiners, they dont give lessons, they do give licences.

Book a motorcycle test and you are expected to turn up appropriately attired and with a motorcycle meeting the requirements for the test you have booked to do the test on.

Book a course... and usually the school will include a bike to ride as part of the course costs; they may also make that bike available for you to take tests on; and supervise you riding it to the test center, as required by your Learner-Licence entitlement, but they don't do the testing.

Hence Training is frequently a convenient 'on-stop-shop' to get a licence; BUT the school don't give you the licence, gov't do.

DSA offer tests all year round, BUT, they do offer disclaimers that they may be 'cancelled' even on the day, due to poor weather.. which is a lot more likely in the winter.

They also don't offer Bike Tests at each and every test center they have, or every day of the week, so whilst the lesser number of candidates booking tests means its usually easier to get a test date, and on shorter appointment time in the winter, it's not a strict rule; lower demand may mean they don't offer as many test appointments at some centers, and shorter day-light hours and poor weather cancellations can mean they fill up 'spare slots' just as quickly.

Similar can effect schools; and go either way; with shorter day-light hours; they may not get a full 8hours training into a 'Day' which can make a 'Days' training effectively more expensive, as they stretch say a 3-day course to a 5, to cover the same miles in Daylight hours... but equally they may give discounted rates, or offer training by 1/2 days, and give you a bit more for your money.... IF they can still fill courses through the winter, and keep instructors 'on the books' to give it.

Training up in the winter, you will more likely experience a wider range of riding conditions than you would in the summer; can make it slower going, but can also give you more 'learning' for the doing; While come tests.... stats dont really mean much if anything at all, larger number of summer passes is only to be expected from larger number of candidates booking tests; how many of them pass first time, shouldn't change... according to DSA procedural check-list test 'standards'.... BUT... turning up bundled up like the Michelin Man, in the crappy weather, does make a difference; as said, 'allowances' have to be provided for the conditions, and you are likely to get a little leniency and some small benefit of the doubt, as instructor sees candidate 'serious' enough to be braving the weather.

So, its an awful lot of Swings and roundabouts... AND arse kicking time!!!

If you have been fannying about on L-Plates for FIVE YEARS, pretending to be a 'Learner'... You are either safe and competent enough to get a full licence YEARS and MILES ago.... people do it in DAYS from never riding at all, how much fucking practice do you NEED for gawds sake! And tests don't demand much more from you that showing you can do Basic CBT stuff like take bike on and off the stand and wheel it in and out of a parking space, ride around a few cones, and then get across town, like you probably do each and every bludy day without killing any-one, breaking any road laws or causing significant 'Hazard'.... and if you CANT do that, they you probably have no business being on ANY powered two wheeler, or possibly even a push-bike!!!!

Assuming all that has held you back from doing it thus far is laziness, ignorance and a little 'fear', possibly the conversion to a geared motorcycle....

REALLY there should be very little reason you don't have a full bike licence now.....

Its only 'Just' Autumn, winter is yet still a good couple of months away; AND if you did what you should have done at the start and grasped the nettle..... Call some schools; get some prices, get some dates, crack out the credit card; VERY little reason this 'question' should even be needed; you could be doing your training next wekk, or next week-end, and the tests within the fortnight AND have the licence at the end of it for the trouble.

Biggest likely issue with getting you trained up to test standard is likely to be getting you familiar and comfy with a geared bike; and breaking bad habbits you have acquired in SO many years of riding around on L-s.

But, Day on the pan, at most to get you doing CBT stuff with gears, and practice for Mod 1; Day on the road nagging you to do propper rear observations and tidy up road positioning; and a day to ferry you to and from test center to do the two Mod Tests.... LIKELY all the training you need to get the licence.

So STOP talking to Us... go talk to some Schools...... you could have this dusted and in the bag well before Christmas, let alone the worst of the winter weather, and you have dallied long enough already.
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Alawson68
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PostPosted: 13:29 - 21 Sep 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did my bike test under the old 33hp system in December 12. Not too bad, had just the one 8 hour lesson a couple of days before, freezing cold, a bit depressing but character building.
Passed my test a couple of days later in the snow, plus point was I had the whole test centre to myself, all day, as everyone else (car and bike) had rung up and cancelled
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Baffler186
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PostPosted: 14:28 - 21 Sep 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just make sure you've got good gloves, don't expect the school to have good ones. Also check what their policy is with cancellations due to poor weather. However, I was told that they (test centre) only cancel tests if it's icy/dangerous or significant snow on the ground.
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mkjackary
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PostPosted: 14:50 - 21 Sep 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is usually a lot cheaper/less busy in the winter. I payed for 1 tutor, 2 learner lessons (at a reduced winter rate), but ended up getting it one on one because they couldn't find another person.
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Alpineandy
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PostPosted: 17:43 - 21 Sep 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd guess that it could end up quite expensive as you'd really need to buy decent gear.
My mates lad did it in summer with cheap boots, gloves jacket and bash hat.
In the deep winter his gear would have been completely inadequate.
He's just looking for decent gear now to get for his birthday in early October... Cool
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DVSA Derek
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PostPosted: 18:28 - 21 Sep 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wouldn't let the time of year put you off. We are not normally a country of extreme weather, and I have seen days just as good for riding at this time of year through to December / January as there are in the spring / summer time.

A couple things that could work in your favour are better lesson prices and if you are worried about the expense of winter gear, don't - the schools will provide it.

Hope that helps..
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bigdom86
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PostPosted: 08:44 - 22 Sep 2016    Post subject: re Reply with quote

do schools generally discount DAS in winter as not as many people do them? as in London all the prices seem to be the same year round. still trying to justify the cost to myself after 2 years on L's.... Rolling Eyes
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Shinigami
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PostPosted: 09:57 - 22 Sep 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

did both my tests in winter (also did my cbt in torrential rain rush hour manchester traffic, i love punishment)

if weather takes a turn for the worse you may find tests cancelled etc, I had my mod 1 delayed by a couple of weeks due to turning up and then being told they couldn't do it due to ice on the test area Laughing

apart from that there's no reason really to avoid doing DAS in the winter
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Louthepoo
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PostPosted: 10:13 - 22 Sep 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the replies, I've ridden through most of the winter except bad ice and snow but not on anything heavier and more powerful than the S-Wing. I've got all decent gear already and have only recently just been able to justify the outlay on doing my DAS.
In reference to the pass rate it's clear if you see the figures that is a pass rate as a percentage of people taking the test not just the amount of people doing it, there's a higher pass rate percentage in summer than winter.
I've phoned a few places up and is the same price for winter lessons as summer as they have less people taking the lessons.
I'm going to look at reviews of the training centres then just book it as soon as i can.

Thanks, Lou
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Teflon-Mike
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PostPosted: 10:38 - 22 Sep 2016    Post subject: Re: re Reply with quote

bigdom86 wrote:
do schools generally discount DAS in winter as not as many people do them? as in London all the prices seem to be the same year round. still trying to justify the cost to myself after 2 years on L's.... Rolling Eyes

How schools price thier courses is up to them. London & The south has higher all-year biking population. Further North, schools can struggle to keep the work coming in year round.

So 2 Years on L's.. you too are well past being a 'Learner' and if you haven't got enough experience to pass a test by now, you probably never will. And if you aren't good enough to pass a test by now, then you probably shouldn't be dodging the tests pretending to be a Learner, you should be taking the bus!

DAS is NOT the 'only' way to get a licence; and DAS Training, as said is not compulsary.

If you cant afford to 'Do DAS'.. can you actually afford to run a bigger bike, you are 'allowed' to ride on licence acquired passing via DAS?

Idea that 125's are 'toys' and big bikes the 'Serious-kit' is a little inverted. More often its the other-way-about. Most 125's have to work hard for a living as every day, low cost commuter transport; its the big-bikes, that so often spend most of thier lives in the garage between Sunny Sunday leisure rides that are the 'toys'.

CBT & L's isn't a '125 licence', the A1 entitlement is the 125 Licence.

You don't NEED to Do-DAS (Courses) to get any licence; it is not mandatory; you merely have to turn up to test on an appropriate bike for the test; you just cannot legally ride a bigger A2 or full A test bike to the test center without instructor supervision on L's; or use on on the road to 'practice', hence DAS courses are the usual 'convenience'.

You CAN however ride a 125 on L's.. and you can use that 125 on L's to do the tests for an A1 licence......

They are the same tests. only difference is the bike... and you get a full licence for the effort... might only let you ride the same bike you have been dodging tests on for the last couple of years, BUT, that little bike's still a propper motorbike; still probably capable of exceeding almost all UK Speed Limits, if you are stupid enough; and still a cheap way to work.

And for £121.50 at last count, to 'self book' and take the Theory, Mod 1 & Mod 2 tests, about as much as the cost of a single repeat CBT to keep pretending to be a learner, dodging them tests, for a couple more years, you can carry on riding the thing until your licence expires when you are 70.

If the pennies are too tight for DAS, then that HAS to be the 'sensible' spend, doesn't it?

And as said, IF you are riding the thing every day to and from work, tests ask no more of you than you are doing every day... absolutely NO reason you shouldn't pass'em.

If NOT, then you probably shouldn't be trying to keep 'dodging' the damn things riding to work at risk every day; or putting it off until you have the money for DAS, which is likely to prove even MORE fucking expensive to 'fail' having the bear the cost of 1/2 day training & bike hire on top of test fees for each attempt!

Do A1, self booked on your own 125; if later you really want the higher licence for the bigger bikes; and you have the money to run one; well, then you should have the money for a DAS course to get it... BUT turning up to book a rider-Training-course with a full bike licence in your pocket; you have been round the loop once; you have passed the tests; its proven you can do it, so school shouldn't waste your time or money teaching you to suck eggs, and need only concentrate on getting you familiar and comfy on a bigger bike, and buddying you over to the test center on one to re-do tests on it... so you aught not risk wasting SO much money on so much DAS training, while your pass chances, and teh risk of having to stump up for more 1/2 day test lessons for repeats should be much reduced.

Either which way its 'win'.. and makes economic sense, as well as practical sense as well as 'safety' sense!

There is absolutely NO sense in prannying about on L's for ever and a day, pretending to be a learner, looking for 'excuses' to justify NOT manning up to take a test and get a proper full bike licence. ANY damn test for ANY damn licence!!!

Idea that the goal 'should' be to get a licence just so you can ride bigger bikes is just perverse. and notion that that is where the 'value' for money in training and testing lies, an even bigger one. Value in training and testing is in gaining and proving your competence to ride ANY bludy motorcycle SAFELY.. and if that's not what you hope to get from it... then you wont... no matter how much money you spend or save along the way.
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carpe_diem
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PostPosted: 10:56 - 22 Sep 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shurely if you're planning to ride in the winter you'll need decent gear anyway, not just for the test?
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