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Kickstart
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 Posted: 22:27 - 30 Sep 2016  Post subject: |
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| M.C wrote: |
How? I know people (baby boomers) who had a mortgage at 18, back then you could walk out of one job and into another. You could afford a car. Even renting's beyond a lot of people these days. |
Very few could afford a car (hence why bikes were so common as forms of transport). Houses might have been cheaper, but still far out of most ability to afford; paying the rent was difficult enough. Hunger was real. Coin meters for gas / electric meant people would just self disconnect.
| M.C wrote: | I don't give a shit if you had an outside toilet, no central heating, and only got fruit in season  The future for an entire generation's utterly fucked. |
You seem to think I am a baby boomer. Afraid not, I am just aware of how massively things have improved since those times, and that things have never been always improving, but have had massive drops at various times (1970s 3 day weeks, 1980s recessions and strikes, 1990s recessions, 2000s recessions).
Ironic that the things you don't give a shit about (along with most consumer goods, cheap cars, etc) things that have improved for you partly because someone in another part of the world will work for less.
| M.C wrote: | How will that be sustainable though? Unless everyone has a single child and it's passed on, the most likely scenario's the house's sold and divided up between two or more children. So 200k house, each kid gets 100k and then what, each one goes to live in Carlisle? |
As said earlier, interest rates are ludicrously low and the difficult bit is the deposit.
In the village I live in just outside Stafford there are flats that have sold recently (in good condition) for £100k. So no mortgage needed. £200k would easily get you a 3 bedroom house with a garage and a decent size garden.
Are things sustainable though? No, probably not. My point is that things having got worse is far from clear cut.
All the best
Katy
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Suntan Sid
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M.C
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| Posted: 09:56 - 01 Oct 2016 Post subject: |
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| Kickstart wrote: |
Very few could afford a car (hence why bikes were so common as forms of transport). Houses might have been cheaper, but still far out of most ability to afford; paying the rent was difficult enough. Hunger was real. Coin meters for gas / electric meant people would just self disconnect. |
People can't afford cars now, it's all finance. Cars aren't cheaper (20k for a diesel Astra?), fuel costs more, insurance costs a lot more if you're young. Even a pint costs more. People are still on key meters, one of the many ways people make a killing off the poor.
| Quote: |
You seem to think I am a baby boomer. Afraid not, I am just aware of how massively things have improved since those times, and that things have never been always improving, but have had massive drops at various times (1970s 3 day weeks, 1980s recessions and strikes, 1990s recessions, 2000s recessions).
Ironic that the things you don't give a shit about (along with most consumer goods, cheap cars, etc) things that have improved for you partly because someone in another part of the world will work for less. |
I don't, but you're doing the you don't know how lucky you're speech. You must think I'm 12 years old (do I sound it? ). I was born under a Thatcher government, I remember just how poor we were under the Tories. Having cheap gadgets is of little comfort when you're living in a bedsit.
| Quote: |
As said earlier, interest rates are ludicrously low and the difficult bit is the deposit.
In the village I live in just outside Stafford there are flats that have sold recently (in good condition) for £100k. So no mortgage needed. £200k would easily get you a 3 bedroom house with a garage and a decent size garden. |
Read that back please. 100k for a flat near Stafford... and there isn't a problem  Saving a deposit isn't difficult unless you're a complete mong. I saw a piece on the local news where this couple with a combined income of something stupid like 90k were bawwing about not being able to save a deposit. Through not conscious effort (to save) I've saved a deposit in 4 years.
The problem's house prices are so out of line with salaries you're never gonna be lent the amount you need to even get on the property ladder (at least in the South East). I could borrow just over 100k on my salary, so I could buy a flat in your village and commute into London everyday?  |
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Itchy
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jjdugen
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Posted: 10:49 - 01 Oct 2016  Post subject: |
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Hmmmm. My point was not meant to be divisive Yes, we are ALL suffering from globalisation and the financiers ability to manipulate social policies, the race to the bottom.
I still hold that the whole world, not just the UK, will be a different place within fifteen years. The whole of the Far East, (our main competitors) have an ageing population demographic that far exceeds ours. China and Japan will be, first, forced to support their venerated parents, then left with empty countries. I see India as being the winner, a vibrant youth with little in the way of care for those that fall by the wayside. (Not a model I would want to see emulated.... But then again, its what seems to be happening here).
Remember, too, that your low interest rates are seeing my (paltry) savings diminish. As ever, winners and losers.
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Itchy
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| Posted: 13:20 - 01 Oct 2016 Post subject: |
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The whole you'll inherit everything reminds me of a parable I heard about 20 years ago.
A father returns to his home village one day after a calamity. He has lost everything in this calamity he has nothing.
He travels long and far to his home village. On the way he sees the sons and daughters treat their parents unfavourably and doesn't want this.
So before he enters his village he picks up a small sack filling it with small pebbles.
He enters the village and finds his sons.
Where have you been father?
I've made my fortune he says and taps the side of the sack.
The sons in their greed fight over one another to look after their father presuming the sack contained immense wealth. Whenever the old man wants something he taps the sack suggesting the one who treats them best will get the inheritance.
He lives opulently on the backs of his sons for several years and passes away suddenly.
The son who looked after him opens the sack and finds only pebbles and rocks and realises he's been duped.
This sounds a lot like the baby boomer generation. They promise a massive inheritance yet when it comes to probate there will probably be nothing left.
Relevant:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/tax/10030873/Too-many-children-relying-on-inheritance-that-they-will-never-get.html
| Quote: | The majority of Britons expect to receive an inheritance from their parents, but in reality four out of ten 10 will not get anything, according to new research. |
Also
| Quote: | Researchers found that 75 per cent of 20 to 35-year-olds expect to receive an average nest egg of £78,000 when their parents die.
But they are set to be disappointed as 37 per cent of parents intend to spend all their money during their retirement and will have nothing left to pass on. |
https://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3493641.stm
| Quote: |
More and more older people are skiing and it has nothing to do with snow and slopes: this type of skiing stands for Spending the Kids Inheritance, or SKI. What started in the United States as a tongue-in-cheek slogan for a bumper sticker is becoming a reality for thousands of retired people in the UK. The stereotype of grandparents sitting at home with a blanket over their knees could not be further from the truth.
Today's Saga generation are fit and active, living life to the full and spending their retirement cash on property, cars and travel. Economically, the Saga generation are becoming a force to be taken seriously.
The over 50s spend around £240bn every year on leisure and account for over 40% of all consumer spending.
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https://www.ft.com/content/9b4a7bfe-5933-11e4-9546-00144feab7de
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But two-thirds of people aged between 50 and 65 would rather spend their money than pass it on to their children, according to a new survey.
Research by the online publication High50 shows two-thirds of parents of that age say they believe in spending wealth rather than saving it for their children. The figure rises to 71 per cent for those aged 60 to 65.
The survey polled 1,000 British people over 50. Nearly a quarter said they planned to leave little or none of their savings to their children, showing a clear preference for spending them.
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Kickstart
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| Posted: 15:00 - 01 Oct 2016 Post subject: |
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| Derivative wrote: |
I think it depends a lot on what you want from life.
Yes, all the toys are far cheaper, we have stuff that didn't even exist 20 years ago, etc.
But a car doesn't give you stability, community, etc. |
The toys might be cheaper, but so are most of the essentials. Spare money after these essentials is higher, hence a lot of the prices of essentials whose price is not fixed (biggest example being houses) have risen up.
| Derivative wrote: | We're going to end up with a generation of eternal children at this rate with 40 year olds living in shared accommodation. It makes me think of dealers with the BMW on the council estate. |
Possibly for a while.
| M.C wrote: |
People can't afford cars now, it's all finance. Cars aren't cheaper (20k for a diesel Astra?), fuel costs more, insurance costs a lot more if you're young. Even a pint costs more. People are still on key meters, one of the many ways people make a killing off the poor. |
They could afford them even less then. Cars are a hell of a lot more affordable, either buying cash relative to incomes, or on finance.
And I didn't say key meters, I said coin meters. So no way to beg for a changed rate or reduced charge, or highlight that there was no energy. Just no coin to put in the slot, not power coming out.
| M.C wrote: | I don't, but you're doing the you don't know how lucky you're speech. You must think I'm 12 years old (do I sound it? ). I was born under a Thatcher government, I remember just how poor we were under the Tories. Having cheap gadgets is of little comfort when you're living in a bedsit. |
And I was in school and then working under Thatcher. And remember the 70s. And can see that however shit things were then, they were still better than they had been in the decades before that.
Before Thatcher very few people could afford to buy houses. Transport was far more expensive (hence people were forced to have cheaper transport).
Yes prices have gone up, but so have incomes massively. My better halfs income as a computer programmer in 1988 was £4k for example (yes poor paying place, but an example).
| M.C wrote: | Read that back please. 100k for a flat near Stafford... and there isn't a problem Saving a deposit isn't difficult unless you're a complete mong. I saw a piece on the local news where this couple with a combined income of something stupid like 90k were bawwing about not being able to save a deposit. Through not conscious effort (to save) I've saved a deposit in 4 years.
The problem's house prices are so out of line with salaries you're never gonna be lent the amount you need to even get on the property ladder (at least in the South East). I could borrow just over 100k on my salary, so I could buy a flat in your village and commute into London everyday? |
Is it a problem? Depends how you look at it. Affordability wise it is probably not bad with low interest rates (even mortgage interest rates rather than base rates). But figures are skewed by still being in a massive recession, so not that directly comparable, and one reason the lenders are arsey about larger mortgages.
As to London, it has always been an over priced shit hole. And having lived in the south east for much of my youth I moved to the Midlands for the cost of living saving.
I bought a house in 1989 for £27k, which was 3 times my reasonable income (base rates hit 15% shortly afterwards, mortgage rates a bit higher). Around the same time a house I had lived on a decade earlier was on the market in Midhurst (West Sussex). About the same size house (both 3 bedroom ~100 year old terrace houses). Was up for £95k, so well outside being an affordable starter home. These days those prices have ~tripled, but so has income while interest rates have gone through the floor.
All the best
Katy
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Posted: 16:06 - 01 Oct 2016  Post subject: Re: Ageism |
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| lihp wrote: | | jjdugen wrote: |
I'm approaching 70.................
.........
Within the next ten, maybe fifteen years, the vast majority of 'us' will be gone. Dead that is.
All the accumulated wealth and property will be redistributed. The jobs we hold will be freed. The pressure of housing and hospitals will diminish or even be eradicated.
Those of you in your 20's and early 30's will suddenly inherit a considerably emptier country. If you want a growth industry to invest in, get a funeral parlour!
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Yet you still voted to remove us from Europe despite you being gone in 10 to 15 years, leaving those of us in 20s and 30s with significantly less opportunities than what you benefited from, and enjoyed for your life. |
We joined the EU in 1992 and haven't left yet. Stop being so melodramatic, we're not leaving Europe, we're leaving a federal political union.
When the EU falls flat on it's arse and the UK economy is growing, you might want to start thanking the people who had the sense to see where it was heading.
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Last edited by - on 08:58 - 02 Oct 2016; edited 1 time in total |
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M.C
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| Posted: 18:06 - 01 Oct 2016 Post subject: |
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| Kickstart wrote: |
They could afford them even less then. Cars are a hell of a lot more affordable, either buying cash relative to incomes, or on finance.
And I didn't say key meters, I said coin meters. So no way to beg for a changed rate or reduced charge, or highlight that there was no energy. Just no coin to put in the slot, not power coming out. |
I know what you said, mans can read  I mentioned key meters to highlight that it still exists. Wasn't a mini £600 in 1970? I know inflation calculators don't tell the whole picture, but compared to the average wage then and now it's a lot less than the relative income.
| Quote: | I bought a house in 1989 for £27k, which was 3 times my reasonable income (base rates hit 15% shortly afterwards, mortgage rates a bit higher). Around the same time a house I had lived on a decade earlier was on the market in Midhurst (West Sussex). About the same size house (both 3 bedroom ~100 year old terrace houses). Was up for £95k, so well outside being an affordable starter home. These days those prices have ~tripled, but so has income while interest rates have gone through the floor. |
I'd love to find a house 3 times my income (~63k  ). 50k gets you one of those timber framed bungalows in Jaywick, which's meant to be one of the most deprived parts of England. |
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Kickstart
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| Posted: 20:30 - 01 Oct 2016 Post subject: |
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| M.C wrote: | I mentioned key meters to highlight that it still exists. |
No, coin meters are far more restrictive. They disappeared from use around 1990, except for private ones landlords have installed. Prepay key or token meters have a closer price to normal electricity and have support for emergency credit and the like.
| M.C wrote: | Wasn't a mini £600 in 1970? I know inflation calculators don't tell the whole picture, but compared to the average wage then and now it's a lot less than the relative income. |
Yes, about right on the price. When a Mini was a cheap pretty much bottom of the range car (Dacia will sell you a car for £6k now). Pay has gone up a hell of a lot, seemingly about 15 fold while many essentials (food for example) are far cheaper relative to income (so the disposable income after paying for food / domestic power / etc is higher).
| M.C wrote: | I'd love to find a house 3 times my income (~63k ). 50k gets you one of those timber framed bungalows in Jaywick, which's meant to be one of the most deprived parts of England. |
That house would be little more than £63k now (maxed out at £75k before the crash), and that is with mortgage rates currently being tiny in comparison (the mortgage payments would barely be more expensive for a £63k mortgage now than £27k was then in absolute terms, let alone real terms).
All the best
Katy
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 8 years, 313 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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