Early morning noise? Where do i stand on this?

[spannermonkey...]

Hi all

I have an Aprilia RS250 2 stroke all standard with aftermarket road legal exhaust system with an MOT.

I have to warm this bike up before I ride it as I don't want a cold seizure. I don't want to put the engine under load when cold.

I don't let it idle as that doesn't warm an engine up, I have to rev it but keeping the revs around and below 4000 returning to idle, warming the water up in the jacket.

The only time I start my bikes is after 10 am and nothing after 6 in the evening, normally started around lunch time. Which has never upset any of my neighbours. Now if I want to ride to work in the morning leaving at 0630. where do I stand with the law?

I'm playing with ideas to have a removable end can to kill decibels with effecting gas flow over the top of normal cans.

Just wondering if other have such a problem?
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Current machines - Aprilia RS250. Kawasaki H1A 500. Past machines - Kawasaki ZX7r P6, Yamaha RD250E (the one that got away), BSA Racing bantam (revs over 10'000 sweet as), Yamaha RXS100, Suzuki GP100, Suzuki GS500K2 - best all year machine ever - come rain, sleet and snow just epic.

[Robby]

It's a scooter. Just start it and ride. Don't give it full throttle on a cold engine.

If someone was revving a scooter and no going anywhere outside my window at 0630, I wouldn't enjoy it.

[spannermonkey...]

If it was a scooter that would be easy with internal tolerances so far out that cold riding is possible. The little RS is more advanced and I'm not wrecking piston rings, bores, riding on a cold engine. With an engine that has no power below 6000rpm and requires a lot of clutch slip to pull away. So a very different beast.

I think I'll stick with warming it up with sound dampers fitted. I've fixed enough 4 stroke engines over the years for people with worn bores/rings due to being ragged from cold by riders with no mechanical sympathy or knowledge.

Proper Two stokes are miles away from 4 stroke counterparts. But all suffer from tight tolerances and excessive wear from cold as oil is thick and not getting into bearing caps and guides.

One only reason you don't see many high millage bikes as engines are shot. Like many plastic fantastic's and other models.

[M.C]

[kgm]

I work shifts so I'm frequently starting and returning at unsociable hours. My neighbours have been pretty understanding so I'm lucky. These days I'm normally on the 125 when commuting so it's not a problem.

My er6 can be loud with the baffle out so I tend to walk it out of the street before starting. With the baffle in I just start it and let it idle whilst I get my helmet and gloves on. I'd speak to your immediate neighbours and just ask them to let you know if it becomes a problem. If you seem approachable about it then they'll appreciate it and be less likely to try to cause you problems.

Just don't start it inside a garage - makes it far worse in my experience.

[Jim Mc]

Couldn't you get an electric heater if you were really worried about it? They make them for engine blocks in super cold countries like Canada. Probably can get them for bikes too.

[Kickstart]

Hi

Personally, I would just ride it straight off (as I do with 2 strokes generally), but just take it real easy until it is well up to temp.

As an aside, if I leave my RS125 idling with just the odd throttle blip then it never heats up (do that once hot and it will cool down).

All the best

Katy
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Traxpics, track day and racing photographs - Bimota Forum - Bike performance / thrust graphs for choosing gearing

[iooi]

[MarJay]

ride as soon as you can, gently until it's warm. Warming it by revving doesn't really get the coolant circulating properly.
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British beauty: Triumph Street Triple R; Loony stroker: KR1S; Track fun: GSXR750 L1; Commuter Missile: GSX-S1000F; Cheap project: CBR900RR FireBlade
Remember kids, bikes aren't like lego. You can't easily take a part from one bike and then fit it to another.

[Ste]

[redeem ouzzer]

Start, ride. Don't bray it untill it's warm. My friend has a tuned KR1S and doesn't fanny around with it idling when we go for a thrash.
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Be a REAL MAN!

[ZX-7R]

On early's i leave at 5.00am.Mine has a straight through race can on it.I just get all my gear on,fire it up on the drive,back out,then pull away,all with the choke on until a couple of hundred yards then switch it off.

I only have a short commute so don't get a chance to thrash it when cold.

Never had no problems regarding noise as i am out the road in under half a minute from start up.
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Current Bike - 2000 ZX-7R

[Robby]

Ah, I read it as SR50, not RS250.

Still, get on it and ride, don't open it up fully until it's warm.

Don't get worked up over rebuilds. It will need a rebuild at some point, you'll rebuild it. This is how 2-stroke ownership works.

[gorillaonabik...]

I don't know your situation but I push my bike up the road and then start it. Takes me an extra minute but the neighbours are happy.
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FZR400 (blown engine), ZXR750 (blown engine), ZX6R (accident), CBR600 which had engine issues after which I learned to change gear..., CBR900, CBR924 (stolen), CB600, CB1300 (everything blew up), BMW K1300GT (written off, hit from rear while stationary), Bandit 1250 for a couple of months, Triumph Sprint ST 1050 (nicked) and somewhere in there, I wrote off a Ducati 748 at Cadwell.

[Pigeon]

An RS250 is a modern classic and a horse with some pedigree.

Second hand prices are (or were) 4-8k

I wouldn't be using it on cold morning commutes. Some bleary eyed commuter rear ending it at a roundabout, no thanks.
I'd buy something cheaper (and quieter + less fussy).

Just my 2p is all.

[stinkwheel]

There's no such thing as a cold seize. Only a heat seize and that happens more easily when the engine is cold.

Get on the bike as soon as it'll run and ride it. Heat is generated by work done. Your engine is only doing work when it's pulling its weight and a rider. Running it from cold while stationary is only prologing the agony, give it some work to do.
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“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[Teflon-Mike]

Legalities are ambiguous at best.

Come under causing nuisance or anti-social behavior, and its a very subjective subject, in which you are probably reasonably on firm footing, IF you are merely starting the bike up to go to work, and bike is road legal.

I've got a NIMBY neighbor on one side; all fur coat and no knickers; gawd knows how many times we've had drunken singing at silly o'clock in the morning as she or her daughter have come rolling in from the pub, or loud domestics spilling out of her front door into the street; but in seven years I have had two letters about 'niosy motorbikes' from the council....

It would seem coming home at midnight and leaving the bike running on the drive whilst I open the gates, constitutes 'loudly revving it under her bedroom window in the middle of the night', whilst popping to the shops on a Saturday afternoon, she had the stereo full blast in the garden, giving a party to show off her new jaquizzi 'disturbed' all her guests

As far as I am concerned, and as far as my other neighbors are concerned, we live on a street; I have a dropped kerb access for my driveway that runs between the houses and is obviously a vehicular access, one would reasonably expect a vehicle to be started and driven or ridden down from time to time. Also 'reasonable' for people to have to use vehicles at less sociable times of day, whether that's coming back from outings later in the evening or going to or coming from work at anti-social hours, and a road legal vehicle is a road legal vehicle, and should not be unduly 'noisy'.

Point at which the council might take action; would be if it can be construed to be a 'nuisance' or 'unreasonably' antisocial.

If you are reving the engine trying to balence the carburettors in the small hours of the morning; or are coming and going every ten minutes; or have a host of freinds coming and going every five minutes; or the like; they may be able to make a case.

As is; starting the bike up and letting it idle a few moments, whilst you open the gates or put your gloves on; are 'reasonable' activities associated with vehicle use and access. And, while 'the other party conferred', chatting about it with my divorce lawyer (who made FAR too much money, to be able to afford to ride an MV Augusta!, but worth every penny!!!) A fairly compelling case would have to be made to prove that activity was an unreasonable nuisance or anti-social act, and more to impose any penalty that impinged on your 'Human Rights' of free association and unimpeded access to your own home, even more that could harm your livelihood, preventing you getting to and from work......

To my sense sensibilities; trying to represent a track born piece of leisure equipment and trying to pass it off as a utilitarian piece of commuter transport, might be a little 'rich'.. but without trying to suggest that its an exotic sports 'special' that you 'have' to carefully warm up like a Ferarri before you can ride it, or drawing attention to the fact that its fickle state of tune means you have to rev it, or it stalls or anything, it's a position that shouldn't unduly prejudiced your case; that its a road bike, with a number-plate and tax disc, being used to support your livlihood in a 'reasonable' way.

I don't think I would sit there doing a paddock blip, reving the tits off it wanking the throttle for twenty minutes like we used to to warm up pre-mix drinking TZ's way back when, and would be more inclined to get on and put the thing under some gentle load to get it up to temp ASAP; but I certainly wouldn't go so far to pander to the NIMBIES as to push the bike to the end of the street before trying to start the bludger!!!! {Bloomin bike weighs quarter of a ton and I'd have to push it 50 yards up hill for starters! THAT would be 'unreasonable'}

So it's a situation where the ambiguities really make it one where its probably easier to ask forgiveness than permission.

"Due Process" starts with the expectation that any aggrieved neighbor should first try and resolve it face to face, and tell you they are annoyed by it, before they go winging to the council; then the council should try and corroberate the 'complaint' before they take any action, which will simply be to inform you of a complaint and tell you they 'may' install monitoring equipment, and may take the matter to court, where you may, get told to stop it!

So many 'mays' in that train, and beyond.. for where you are at, no one has said its a problem, so presume its not a problem until otherwise challenged, then re-evaluate.

But, ultimately it's your call; You obviously recognize the bike 'could' be a problem... and legal high-ground isn't always the safest. I'm a homeowner; I don't have to worry a landlord would get arsey or anything outside of the court system, and am not particularly worried that militant NIMBY might pour brake fluid over my car in the night or anything!!! You may not.
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My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?'

[carpe_diem]

Legalities aside, I think the mantra of 'don't be a cunt' is a good one to love your life by.
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Currently riding: Suzuki EN125 | Previous rides: Vespa 125PX, Yamaha SR125

[1198]

[GSTEEL32]

I commuted once on a RS250.

I lasted a week.

Epic bike. $hit commuter. Its also a target for thieves. I was also worried about someone leaning something cheap & Chinese against the plastics and scratching them when parked up.

I then spent £650 on the next ebay auction for a 4 stroke.

I bought a triumph trophy, but it could have been anything tbh.

I'd advise you to do likewise.

[Rncv]

Bit off topic; You don't happen to be based in Norwich by chance?
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Current: 01' Bandit 600, 92' Goose 350
Previous: Lots!

[c_dug]

I've owned a couple of two strokes and have never warmed any of them up as you describe. In fact I've never warmed any of my bikes up at all.

I'll quite happily start the bike up with it in gear and literally ride off in less than a second from hitting the starter button.

I know roughly where on my route a bike will be warm by on both my journey to work and home again, obviously dependant on traffic and to a lesser extent the weather. I just take it easy before that point.
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I am a bellend, I am a man of constant sorrow, I am a gummy bear, I am a rock.

[ZX-7R]

[flat spot]

Kick it over and ride. A cold seize is when the different internal parts of the engine expand at different rates but don't forget engine designers know all about this. Possibly on a frosty morning you get on your bike and cane the bugger there's a chance this could happen but under normal riding whatever the weather it will be fine. I don't care to think how many decades I've owned 2 strokes riding all year round so trust me it won't be a problem.

[Fin]

If It's cold and I'm leaving from home then I will hold the revs around 5k and do little blips, this is because I have to go up a hill and the bike does up better when warm.

I ride my bike easy for about 3 miles, gradually building up the revs and how much I open the throttle.

If I'm somewhere flat then I will start it and take it easy for a few miles, I keep an eye on the temp sensor and think how long I've been on the bike so I can guess that all the components are at a good enough temperature.